criggs19 Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 I posted this on another forum but I'm not really getting any help so I thought I'd try here. Howdy all, first I'd like to say hello to everyone and say what an interesting world this is that I found. I have been an avid watch collector for much of my adult life and never realized that the "rep" world existed. I currently have a small collection that consists of a gen Planet Ocean, gen Speedmaster 50th Anniversay, a gen Vintage white dial Speedmaster, a vintage Seiko Chronograph, several other various Seiko dive watches, and the pride of my fleet, a 1965 Patek Philippe, Gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Hi Criggs, I was crafting a really long response and lost it when I accidentally closed my windows. I'll try again but in briefer form. Welcome to the forum. You found the best watch forum around ...gen or rep. We have the most knowledgeable and helpful watch history buffs, movement experts and modders around. The fact that they are the most helpful and knowledgeable at the same time makes this an outstanding Community we hope you will enjoy being a part of. Long Story Short: I'm not a 6263 expert so hopefully they will come and fill in the blanks I start here. We have folks with gen, rep, and heavily modded 6263 and pre-'Tona's here so the knowledgeable is solid and based on experience...not conjecture. DW: V72 engine - most solid and repairable by any watchsmith who can work on theseDW Mystery Movement - Accurate for spacing but may have reliability and serviceability issues...but cheaper than a V72A7750 modded with asymmetrical pushers - harder to service as needs skills to service not only a 7750 chrono BUT also the idiosyncracies of the Asian version There have been threads about some DW's having crappy dial register printing. He'll fix it...but the QC can be shaky sometime. J&W:Most expensiveAccurate but not necessarily the most accurate (hopefully the experts can chime in as I have VERY LITTLE knowledge of the JW ones...going by memory of past threads)One stop shopping SPINMASTER:Reasonably accurate Easy one-stop shoppingA7750 manual version LOW ACCURACY BUT CHEAP: [*]A7750 Auto Versions [*]Seagull ST19 / Lemania Manual Wind versions [*]A7750 non-auto versions [*]These vary immensely in accuracy...have to shop for what you want These options are still beautiful if you get the one that fits your bill and are the most cost effective. With 6263's and pre-Daytons you have to figure out what you want: High accuracy or the the look of the watch at much lower cost. Just because they are not accurate doesn't mean they aren't reliable or beautiful. Threads to read: DW's IOffer Store 6263 and SpinmasterDiscussion by a Couple Experts Spinmaster's 6263 Pics of my Seagull 6263 A7750 6263 Maintenance Discussion of A7750 Manual Wind Mod Accuracy Discussion Bad DW Dial...I've seen a few of these posted Read the thread linked in my signature about modding the ST19 movement...as it uses one of my 6263's as an example. Also...read my Noob Guide linked in my signature to get you oriented to the world of reps. You like watches...that's obvious...and I think you are going to find yourself in BIG trouble when you start reading some of these threads...and I encourage you to read some of the other threads on buying guides, daily wrist-checks and reviews to introduce you to some other high end reps that I think you'll want to start exploring. Again...welcome to the forum. We try to help each other here...and hope you enjoy your stay.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criggs19 Posted January 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Wow, that was just what I was looking for. I have been looking around at gen parts and here's what I think I'm going to do. First, buy an old junker watch, take it apart, learn the guts, and put it back together a few times. Once I'm comfortable I'll get a "kit" from one of the one's you mentioned and build me a fair quality, Franken. In the meantime, collect gen parts as I can find them and over time put a complete gen vintage together. Does that sound like a feasible plan? I have a lot of good contacts in the "gen" world so I hope finding genuine parts won't be impossible. What does everyone think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 fanatastic reply toadtorrnt very usefull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Buying a junker watch is good to just learn the basics. You will need to assemble yourself a little toolkit and I would HIGHLY recommend getting Offshore's starter toolkit from his store. Search for his thread on the store and the kit. It is by far the best way to start for tools - good quality and good price. You will need to learn: Case openingStem removal and re-insertionDe-casingHand removalDial removalHand re-installationDust removal All this stuff is the foundation...working on the movements themselves comes later and likely not something you should dive into for awhile...or at all. Certain things can go wrong - broken and bent hands, stripped crowns, torn gaskets, scratched dials, broken dial feet, etc...and you'll see threads on this site about how to address all this stuff...you'll have to search...but they're in there somewhere. Work on that junker watch a few times and go for it...it's fun. There was a member that had some cheap watches for sale I would recommend $30 a piece, 4 pieces that would probably fit the bill. Look in the for sale section. Good luck...and I hope you'll "pay it forward" and document your journey and contribute back to the forum your experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criggs19 Posted January 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 I think I'm good on the toolkit, bought a really nice one while back. I kind of buy and sell gen watches (Rolex, Omega mainly) as a hobby/side business due to a great source for both so I ended up getting one after everyone asked for help sizing bracelets, changing bands, etc... I have a buddy that's is a watchmaker so I think I can get a junker or two from him to practice on. I don't think I'll ever delve into working on the movements unless I go to a watchmaker school which I have thought about after retirement (if that ever happens). One question I was really interested in, the Val 72 movement. Just to show my ignorance, say I find one that is already inside another brand of watch besides Rolex. Is it the same movement as the Rolex Val 72? Or are they customized in any way specific to the brand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 If I read Chuck Maddox's site correctly...the Rolex variant of the v72 is actually the V722 and has a Breguet Overcoil & MicroStella Balance...so some performance upgrades but functionally the same. Again...hopefully somebody like Freddy or others can answer this better than me. Out of my sphere of experience to say for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Although all Valjoux 72s are basically the same, there are levels of quality. Rolex took the basic V72 and made improvements as did other watch mfrs (Breguet comes to mind). But to build the V72 powered 6263, you'll need to find a chronograph w/ the V72 in it- ebay is a good place to start. Expect to spend $700-1000. And then plan on spending $300 or so to have it serviced. No point in building a $2000+ watch w/ an unserviced movement. Since you already have a watchmaker, maybe he can help you. Like Toad, I would not recommend trying to learn on such a project w/ such a high degree of difficulty. Just gathering all of the correct parts is an experience in itself. But if you are successful, and are able to find a watchmaker to build it for you, it will be satisfying to know that you've replicated a $20,000-40,000 watch for $2000-3000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gplracer Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Nice job Toad! For the a 6263 you need to have a lot of patience. It will take a while to acquire the parts. The quality of the part varies so then you will probably have to work with that as well. The A7750 would give you a good watch but one that has sub dial spacing that is .6mm off. Also the A7550 would probably have to be serviced by someone who knows what he is doing. It is probably the best option for the money. As toad stated your options would be the following with that movement: 1. Buy a kit off of ebay 2. Buy directly from DW and then have someone service it as needed. Part of the service would be having the auto winding gears removed if you are going to use a the lower profile and more correct back. 3. Buy a watch from spinmaster with all of this already done The valjoux 72 option is the most accurate but they are pricey and difficult to work on as well. It all depends on how much you want to spend. A serviced A7750 model is going to cost you around $600 and a V72 model is going to run you $1800+. A gen tropic #21 is also an improvement you will want. Those are available on the bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criggs19 Posted January 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 I've actually already found a Val 72 for a great price through my gen connections on another forum, I think that the rest will be more difficult. My guess is that a genuine case will be the hardest to find. Am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 The gen case is probably the hardest to find as that is what carries the serial number. Few people worry about the gen case on the high end Franken-tonas. A good rep case with the asymmetrical pusher spacing, gen v72, gen T21, gen bracelet and clasp, gen crown, crown tube and pushers, gen hands and a good rep dial would get you a very nice 6263 indeed for a high price...but still low relative to the $35K the gen would cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 I've actually already found a Val 72 for a great price through my gen connections on another forum, I think that the rest will be more difficult. My guess is that a genuine case will be the hardest to find. Am I right? Right & if you find a gen case for sale, check the temperature in hell, because it is likely about to freeze over. Gen Daytona cases rarely come up for sale &, when they do, they sell for far more than the total cost of a V72-powered DW franken. Best to use a DW case, which is dimensionally the same as the gen. Ask DW if engraved (as opposed to laser etched) lug numbering is available. Beyond that, there are dozens of reviews, tutorials & journals detailing the assembly of members' DW Daytonas that you can (& should) search out on RWG before beginning your own project. This will save you (& us) alot of (duplicated) effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSentier Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 OMG, look a this: http://cgi.ebay.at/VINTAGE-DAYTONA-PROJECT-WATCH-VALJOUX-72-BEAUTIFUL_W0QQitemZ230428228344QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item35a697baf8#ht_535wt_948 5.9k for a rep? Must start a daytona project now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwhitesox Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 Pretty much check out Freddy333's earlier posts on the daytonas as he has covered everything you need to know. Good luck with this project and make sure you post photos documenting the journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 Welcome to RWG, i think you have a lot of answers to work on now, this is the best and most friendly horological site, the experts here will be able to help you through the mine fields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 Great answers and advice Toad. You have the Vintage Daytona experts advising you in this thread Welcome to RWG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 just wanted to chime in and say welcome to RWG; as dluddy mentioned, you're in good hands -- lots of folks here (who have already commented in this thread) with tons of experience building 6263s. i'll contribute one small piece of info -- you can pick up a good pair of 571 endlinks (genuine 571s are ridiculously expensive for a tiny piece of metal, not to mention difficult to source) that fit the dw 6263 case nicely from joshua for cheap; click here to see my thread on these (which were the final piece of my own 6263 puzzle). best of luck with your new project -- be sure to keep us updated as you make progress gathering parts, etc deltatahoe ps, i'm sure the members here would love to see some pictures of your collection (especially that patek -- there is something extra special about those family heirloom pieces) -- as you may have noticed, we're a little crazy about watches here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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