TJGladeRaider Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I have been following these group buy deals, and the concept seems to be the exact opposite of the general opinions we have always seen oin the boards, and I am wondering at the logic - if indeed, there is any logic to this. I suppose I should distinguish between group buy for eligibility, and group buy for leverage. Some products are only available to those who buy in bulk, sometimes as way to weed out individual buyers, and sometimes because a production run is not justified by a single piece order/sale. That makes perfect sense to me. On the other hand, a group buy approach to force down prices is a completely different concept and I question the long-term wisdom of that idea. If you're going to create an environment where a given type of animal survives and thrives, you better be sure it is the animal that you want. The, "Do you buy from the dealer with the lowest price, or best service" question has been bounced around on these forums to death. The consensus is always that it makes sense to pay a little more to the guy who will stand behind his product - the choose your dealer and then choose your watch mantra plays here over and over again. The group buy concept is the exact opposite, and although it doesn't affect me one way or the other, I think some of you should think about what this will mean to you down the road. Smart business in one environment can be not-so-smart in another. I don't have the best, or biggest collection of watches, but I buy more than most. I just bought more than $1000 worth of watches from Andrew a few minutes ago, I am negotiating a purchase of somewhere between four and ten watches thru George, and Joshua is getting an order together for me of either four, or eight - depending on price and availability. I am not a dealer, nobody ever saw me offer any watch for sale - I just like to collect them, and I give them as unique gifts to some of my friends. I readily admit that nobody asked me for an opinion, but if someone asked me to set up a "group buy," I am quite sure I could set one up as effectively as anyone -- I'd recommend against it, and here is why. When you pick your dealer, and buy your watch, there is a component there that some may be missing -- a sort of "credit" with that dealer that counts for a lot. Let's say a watch sells for $250, and I'll guess dealer cost to be $150 (If you're out there thinking these guys are selling watches for peanuts, you're too stupid to talk to). If that watch sells for $250 as your "absolute best price," I expect to buy it for $225 - I would expect a dealer I have sent thousands of dollars to give me a better deal than he gives most customers, and he/she would. He'll settle for a $75 profit from me rather than $100 from most for a lot of reasons. He knows I am not going to defi8ne this purchase as a "Counterfeit Fake Replica Rolex" to PayPal, I am not going to scream to the list when my watch isn't here in three days, I am not going to scream to PayPal when it breaks, and I am not going to charge it back just for the fun of it. I have earned that. If my watch shows up defective, I would expect them to make it right, and make a bit more effort in that regard than they normally would for most customers, and he/she would. I have earned that. If I reported that Customs seized the watch and they are one of those dealers that covers that, I would expect a watch sent immediately - a man doesn't buy five (or fifty) watches from you just so he can screw you out of a watch! The REAL point I want to make here is not about the fact that you build up faith and credit with dealers you buy from, the REAL point I want to make here is related to diminishing returns. In actual practice, it works like this. Once you have bought two or three from a dealer, they remember you and most dealers have very, very few customers who have bought more from them than that. Buy six, and you are on their personal VIP list forever whether you buy six more, or sixty. In my experience, that status has real value -- VERY real value, but note the dramatically diminishing scale. Buy a couple, and you have most of the credit there is and then whether you buy six, or sixty, that VIP status doesn't change much. That's because there is only so far a dealer can move and make a living. Now back to the $250 watch. The advertised price is $300, the best you can do is $250 and I agree to buy the watch for twenty of you at $225. Let's look at who got what. The selling dealer made $1500 - three-fourths what he would have expected to make, and he has put twenty watches "on the road" for it. The non-selling dealers got screwed. That may not occur to you, but it is true. They are here to sell watches and if this watch has "group buy" potential, it is because it is a piece that everyone wants, and all of our dealers are here expecting to make a few dollars on it. Think of this as a pond that only has so many fish in it - once somone pulls out a disproportionate share, someone else goes hungry. You saved $25, but you have established nothing with this dealer -- he doesn't even know who you are, and why should he care. You aren't loyal to him, you are going to buy with your group from whomever will undercut everyone else's price next time, whether he offers you service or not. You tell me -- what's his motivation to stand behind your watch? I wouldn't, and you wouldn't, so why would he? Like I said - if you're going to restructure the environment so a new kind of animal can survive here, be careful. You may wind up losing what you have come to expect, and find yourself living with a monster. I think this is about dumb as a box of rocks, but that's just one man's opinion. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt.watch.obsessive Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I participated in the group buy (IWC), although I am not the best one to answer so I'll keep it quick. Your points are valid and it is important to think of the dealers as partners. I note only the rather dramatic decrease in price that accompanied the group buy, essentially from $350 to $250 at the regular dealers. Whether we saved $20 or $120 is open for debate (or paid $10 too much if you pre-order now from Paul). Moreover, I believe the final count was about 30. I'll bet Eddie sold well more than that in the interim. I find the price decrease interesting, if indeed it had anything to do with the buy. The conventional wisdom around here is that we are a small segment of the overall market. But this relatively small group appeared to have an influence on the price that would suggest otherwise. Or...the prive would have come down anyhow. IMHO, of course. Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swdivad Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Well written, and I agree 100%... We wait and wait for God knows how long for the deal to be done, while in the meantime, the other dealers do not sell that model (and other watches too) to those involved in the group buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk45ca Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 i have never used the buy the dealer and then the watch theory. their allot of good dealers here and i always find the watch with the quality level i want and then i find out the dealers that have that specific peice and i buy it from who ever has the lowest price. also if you only buy from 1 dealer you have another problem. some of the watches our dealers have are all from the same factory so they will be exactly the same with accuracy quality and design. but their are some dealers that get some watches from other sorces and may have a watch you want that is better than the other dealers. if you only deal with 1 dealer you will lose out on something you wanted at some point. if we had some good and some bad the reasoning would make sence but we have allot to chose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Bill that is a damn fine post and yes I have never participated in a group buy for watches, but I did try to get one going for watch winders a long time ago, which is ok as it was nobody connected to our sites that was the supplier. But now you have made me think, I know I will never be part of a group buy. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted September 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 i have never used the buy the dealer and then the watch theory. their allot of good dealers here and i always find the watch with the quality level i want and then i find out the dealers that have that specific peice and i buy it from who ever has the lowest price. also if you only buy from 1 dealer you have another problem. some of the watches our dealers have are all from the same factory so they will be exactly the same with accuracy quality and design. but their are some dealers that get some watches from other sorces and may have a watch you want that is better than the other dealers. if you only deal with 1 dealer you will lose out on something you wanted at some point. if we had some good and some bad the reasoning would make sence but we have allot to chose from. I agree - I don't buy from just one dealer either. On the other hand, I don't shop for bottom dollar price and ignore who the dealer is. Case in point. I bought a very nice Patek Philippe from one of our dealers, and then found it twenty dollars cheaper thru a different dealer when I wanted one for my brother. When the watch came from the second dealer, it was missing a screw. I tried to get a replacement screw from that dealer for MONTHS, but all i got was promises. I finally mentioned it to the dealer I bought the first watch from and, even knowing that I had bought the defective watch from someone else, I had a replacement screw in two weeks. I find it very important to choose who I deal with carefully, and I do think that people driven to chisel prices to the last dollar will drive competent, cordial, customer service oriented dealers the way of the dinosaur. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted September 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I find the price decrease interesting, if indeed it had anything to do with the buy. The conventional wisdom around here is that we are a small segment of the overall market. But this relatively small group appeared to have an influence on the price that would suggest otherwise. Or...the prive would have come down anyhow. IMHO, of course. Steve. I have an opinion, but it is just opinion, rather than any kind of inside info. The first guy to bring something desireable to market always demands premium pricing - the rule of supply and demand. The watch was overpriced to begin with for what it is. I say that because let's keep in mind that if all watches are counterfeit, name means nothing. Any of the other Asian movement chronos like that IWC can be bought $250 and less, so I don't think the initial price was realistic. Just my guess, but I think it's a sensible guess. If I was going to make a prediction, I'll bet most of these "group buy" leverage efforts will collapse under their own weight. It's too complicated to make it work to justify the relatively minor savings available, and trying to manage it will be a nightmare. Nobody will ever know how many buyers there really are til the money is counted. Once they have seen this thru in actual practice once, most folks will not find it so attractive for the reasons I mentioned. Even as many watches as I buy, I'd always pay $25 more to deal directly with a dealer I like and trust than have someone else negotiating the deal for me with some dealer who will never know I was a customer, or care what happens with my watch. Besides which, anyone with government experience knows what happens when you always have to buy from the lowest bidder. Few rules are absolute, but I generally find that, "While you may not always get what you pay for, you always pay for what you get." Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehtolcad Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 bill, interesting postings, but one thing does not jive with me is the idea that the group buy dealer does not care what happens with the watch. knowing the over-zealous watch nuts that many of us are, i'd imagine that our guys do care what happens with the watches they send out regardless if the sale arises from a group buy or not. if something goes wrong, people will flip out and go crazy whether it's a one-on-one situation or from a group buy. so, in order to protect the good reputations that have been built, i'd say that they will want to make sure that things go as smoothly as possible. further, since many utilize drop-shipping, i'd venture to say that those that do the packaging and moving of the watches have no idea about the circumstances of the sale at all. to think that johnny factory worker says "oh, i better be careful with this one, it's for bill" to himself before sending the watch out or sneaking it through customs is a bit unrealistic. i know that your point is that once you have an existing relationship with a dealer, in many cases you can get things done that others cannot or have access to watches at lower than advertized prices (which is great) but not everyone is a collector. not everyone is foolish (like i am) enough to buy and buy and buy again. plus too even with the whole group buy discount bit, if one is patient enough, prices will fall. that is something for another thread though - i have certainly never understood the methods of the early adoptors. keep posting more though, i always like your posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Bill that is a damn fine post and yes I have never participated in a group buy for watches, but I did try to get one going for watch winders a long time ago, which is ok as it was nobody connected to our sites that was the supplier. But now you have made me think, I know I will never be part of a group buy. Ken I totally agree. After reading this complete thread, I am totally exhausted! I agree that there is nothing wrong with Ruby becoming a valuable dealer here, except I have never and will never be involved in a group buy. Group buys take away sales which support all the dealers, Not just one dealer per new watch. 20 pcs. of one watch is a very nice order for one dealer, Except normally those 20 pcs. would be distrubuted by 4 or 5 dealers. OK, yes we were able to drop the price.....Except now what the about the other 4 dealers who lost of of making $300 or $400 on that particular watch..? Those 4 dealers make nothing! I honestly believe the following. Dealers need to make a living. This is not an easy business by any means selling watches here. I stand on the following that dealers will operate on the following premise ..."Pay me now or Pay me later"... I personally am looking at the long term relationship with our dealers...And I mean dealers,,,,Not one or 2 of them. We have the finest of the finest here....Let's not muck it up by trying to save a buck... I think we are cutting our own throats with group buys, and eventually dealers will act differently towards members whom always use group buys. Reasons are as follows..I have relationships with most of our dealers. I respect them and I feel they respect me. I would not want to see other dealers loose profits because we make a group buy and I saved $50 bucks. Maybe it's just me....But I do cherish our dealers.... I feel I pay them to go the extra mile for me. When you get a discounted product and the product is defective, No way this one dealer can solve all the problems that could arise! Bill, I want to Thank You for personally opening up this topic for discussion and it's been bothering me also.. Just my 2 cts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk45ca Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I agree - I don't buy from just one dealer either. On the other hand, I don't shop for bottom dollar price and ignore who the dealer is. Case in point. I bought a very nice Patek Philippe from one of our dealers, and then found it twenty dollars cheaper thru a different dealer when I wanted one for my brother. When the watch came from the second dealer, it was missing a screw. I tried to get a replacement screw from that dealer for MONTHS, but all i got was promises. I finally mentioned it to the dealer I bought the first watch from and, even knowing that I had bought the defective watch from someone else, I had a replacement screw in two weeks. I find it very important to choose who I deal with carefully, and I do think that people driven to chisel prices to the last dollar will drive competent, cordial, customer service oriented dealers the way of the dinosaur. Bill i understand your thinking but i have bought from the highest priced dealer and was not able to get parts and went to cheaper dealer and he got it for me while he was traveling on vaction. so that story works both way in my experiances. they can trim profit margine and still provide good customer service. ruby is a perfect example of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Strongly disagree,..with many of the premises in this thread... First of all the engine that runs this site, and indeed this industry, are We, The People.. we that shell out our hard earned money. Dealers are into this for profit, thus we have no obligation to make sure that we spread our money out equally between them, or make sure that they will survive. Survival of any person who decides to sell, is their own responsibility. If the crop drys up, then sell something else... However Most have established their customer base, and will be fine, while others will be discovered by new clients during group buys and will profit further into the future, as some customers return. Thus this notion that we are somehow hurting them and in the process ourselves ....is but a jaded idea... If, One gains, while the other was too slow or too tight to take a bit less profit on one particular watch, to gain it back in another... Then Who hurt who ? That is the game of life, my friend.. and especially so in business... As for us... if we save some money on a group buy... what dealer is going to hold that against any member ? Not a one.... I can take 25 of any members and any dealer would be glad to have them....over and over again.... back and forth, round & round... Next, this issue again of price verses service, as if the two were ever at odds with our best dealers... I have found from experience, is that low price does NOT always equate lower service or quality, ..again...it depends upon the dealer... Both of my group buys were handled by great dealers.. first EL and 2nd Jay...and you will find that members who participated in both, have not, and will not lose a bit of service both pre or post purchase. Nor will the dealer not see his profit... Lastly I will speak on price, though I can go on and address quite a few other issues raised...but just drove 12 hours straight ....and my eyes and mind are very weary... Many new watches that come first into honpo are very much over-priced.... and can remain that way for much longer than was allowed here, with the portuguese... Thus this $25 savings figure that is being passed off as fact is not accurate... That watch was selling...{and it was selling} for with shipping for $345.. Some dealers then took it down to $300, but don't for a moment think that if everyone was gladly forking over $300 that the price would have dropped... Bidding made it fall... and Quickly.... Why should anyone pay an extra $75 to $100 for a First release watch ? No one here,.. should....and does not need to...the generations are coming as quick as five per year... Besides.. that extra savings most likely with our replica addictions, goes back into another watch purchase regardless,.. further feeding our dealers... I say Group buys are a great way to go..... it puts the power back into the hands of the board to decide how much we want to pay for a new or discontinued model... Buying separate as a rule, is only hurting the individual that applies such ridged and artificial restrictions upon himself... This is Buy and Sell...is all about Money, Family & Individual Resources, and Time...which is LIFE. Don't for one moment fall into the trap of thinking that anyone who Sells to you, had made any mental or emotional obligations to you.. You can drop from this board any time and will not be missed by them, except by the void of your currency... This relationship is about respect for money.... so let's use it with those that understand these facts, by choosing to think long term about our abilty to pay now, and in future...and that can only be done by taking their lower profit over years... That is how you will see who gives a care about you.. by how much they are willing to put back into your pocket....for you to play with again later... Oh & by the way,...Group buys will Not Collapse under any weight,.. they are as light as a feather.... Those that participate have proven to be the most honest, and forthright indivuduals, who understand the benefits and do follow through.... The first was a success.. and this 2nd venture suceeded from day ONE > I think Group buys will continue and are a joy to put together.. I wish more would host them as I have met so many more great people that I could otherwise.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I'm with Richard Tracy on this. It's a simple case of business is business, economies of scale and supply and demand. The group buy was through one of our respected dealers who has now got business from me that they might not have done otherwise. When I buy a rep I usually try to get it as cheap as possible. For a given watch that best price might come from Andrew, it might be Joshua and so all the purchases I have made have have been on that basis. So most of the dealers here have had business from me fairly evenly and since the fact that they are all here at all is because they give this level of service, but I'm sure we can all recall times when one or more dealer has let someone down for one reason or another. Sure we all develop relationships with a particular dealer but remember that we are not their only customers. There must be many rep buyers who are unaware of this site but buy reps direct from the various websites and they are going to be paying RRP. The dealers at the end of the day are only in this for the money - it's a business and Silix must still be making a profit. In fact if we were that bothered we would all be posting that "I just bought X from X so next one will have to come from Y so as to be fair"!! There is a new dealer here - Sash5 - do any of you care wether or not he makes it here (actually I have just bought one from him) and how will he be able to compete with the established dealers - what will his angle be - a 10% discount? How many of us paid $350 for something that later ended up being $200 - do you think the dealers care about that. Would any of them say to us "don't buy X just yet as next week the price will come down $75 so wait a week". Don't get me wrong - I have been extremely grateful to certain dealers here who have helped me with a spare part but that's because I have spent a lot with them in the past - as I said business is business and I don't feel remotely guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I too, agree with Richard on this, I would however add one rider. Back in the early days of TRC ( I think) or maybe it was even during the ??? RWCC?? forum time, a group buy went awry ( from memory) and a number of people were left in the lurch. My old brain can't recall all the details, but again from memory it was what created TRC. Maybe some of the real old timers can fill in the gaps. So, not casting aspersions on anyone who has put together a group deal, there remains an extra element of risk for the buyer, and they should take the Caveat Emptor advise. Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I think Group Buys are fine. What I have yet to figure out is whether anyone saves money or aggravation. I just paid the identical price or better as the group buy for that IWC and am getting exactly the model I want from one of my valued dealers. I have actually never figured out whether our dealers offer better prices and/or better services because they know you. I assume some do and some don't. I have bought several watches from at least a half a dozen dealers. The folks who are somewhat more expensive remain that and the less expensive ones remain that. But most importantly I have never had a problem with any of my regular dealers even when the watch had a problem and something needed to be rectified. What I do hope is that Group Buys help generate unique products whether in the form of a new model of rep or corrections on existing ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 as far as I can tell, Jay&Angel are the most loyal dealers when it comes to replacement. They wont even DISCUSS with you, if something is not 100% right, they will make it right and dont start with stuff like "are you sure you didnt press that button and didnt set the daten between 12 and 3 o'clock" etc etc as for the rest, the dealers who offer the watches for those groupbuys always change. One time it was andrew, then josh, then eddie and now it's jay&angel. next time, maybe it will be paul? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 The advertised price is $300, the best you can do is $250 and I agree to buy the watch for twenty of you at $225. Let's look at who got what. The selling dealer made $1500 - three-fourths what he would have expected to make, and he has put twenty watches "on the road" for it. You've missed an important point. Dealers get bulk discount too. If a dealer knows he's got 30 sales on a group buy for a watch he was going to buy two of, he's instantly in the next discount bracket with his distributor. He gets $25 off each watch and passes the savings on to us directly. He makes the same profit per watch as normal, but gets volume of sales to increase his profit that month. (Numbers are of course hypothetical) You also assumed a dealer would have the 30 in stock in the first place and would have shifted them at the regular price point in that week. As you can see, I haven't commented on your philosophy, just your maths: They don't add up. Your philosophy, however is a different matter and deserves a more pondered reply. Another time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Strongly disagree,..with many of the premises in this thread... First of all the engine that runs this site, and indeed this industry, are We, The People.. we that shell out our hard earned money. Dealers are into this for profit, thus we have no obligation to make sure that we spread our money out equally between them, or make sure that they will survive. Survival of any person who decides to sell, is their own responsibility. If the crop drys up, then sell something else... However Most have established their customer base, and will be fine, while others will be discovered by new clients during group buys and will profit further into the future, as some customers return. Thus this notion that we are somehow hurting them and in the process ourselves ....is but a jaded idea... If, One gains, while the other was too slow or too tight to take a bit less profit on one particular watch, to gain it back in another... Then Who hurt who ? That is the game of life, my friend.. and especially so in business... As for us... if we save some money on a group buy... what dealer is going to hold that against any member ? Not a one.... I can take 25 of any members and any dealer would be glad to have them....over and over again.... back and forth, round & round... Next, this issue again of price verses service, as if the two were ever at odds with our best dealers... I have found from experience, is that low price does NOT always equate lower service or quality, ..again...it depends upon the dealer... Both of my group buys were handled by great dealers.. first EL and 2nd Jay...and you will find that members who participated in both, have not, and will not lose a bit of service both pre or post purchase. Nor will the dealer not see his profit... Lastly I will speak on price, though I can go on and address quite a few other issues raised...but just drove 12 hours straight ....and my eyes and mind are very weary... Many new watches that come first into honpo are very much over-priced.... and can remain that way for much longer than was allowed here, with the portuguese... Thus this $25 savings figure that is being passed off as fact is not accurate... That watch was selling...{and it was selling} for with shipping for $345.. Some dealers then took it down to $300, but don't for a moment think that if everyone was gladly forking over $300 that the price would have dropped... Bidding made it fall... and Quickly.... Why should anyone pay an extra $75 to $100 for a First release watch ? No one here,.. should....and does not need to...the generations are coming as quick as five per year... Besides.. that extra savings most likely with our replica addictions, goes back into another watch purchase regardless,.. further feeding our dealers... I say Group buys are a great way to go..... it puts the power back into the hands of the board to decide how much we want to pay for a new or discontinued model... Buying separate as a rule, is only hurting the individual that applies such ridged and artificial restrictions upon himself... This is Buy and Sell...is all about Money, Family & Individual Resources, and Time...which is LIFE. Don't for one moment fall into the trap of thinking that anyone who Sells to you, had made any mental or emotional obligations to you.. You can drop from this board any time and will not be missed by them, except by the void of your currency... This relationship is about respect for money.... so let's use it with those that understand these facts, by choosing to think long term about our abilty to pay now, and in future...and that can only be done by taking their lower profit over years... That is how you will see who gives a care about you.. by how much they are willing to put back into your pocket....for you to play with again later... Oh & by the way,...Group buys will Not Collapse under any weight,.. they are as light as a feather.... Those that participate have proven to be the most honest, and forthright indivuduals, who understand the benefits and do follow through.... The first was a success.. and this 2nd venture suceeded from day ONE > I think Group buys will continue and are a joy to put together.. I wish more would host them as I have met so many more great people that I could otherwise.... I agree 100% witg RT...even if i've never been a part of a group buy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I agree 100% witg RT...even if i've never been a part of a group buy.. Did you need to repost his entire post though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 To be honest, I have absolutely no opinion on group buys in general because I don't think they have any large scale or long term effect on the hobby, rep buyers, or rep dealers. Without trying to sound like George Will or worse, if group buys do end up have some impact, the market will take care of it. Here's what I can say from experience, thouigh: 1)If you don't already have some respect and understanding for the time, effort, and logistical issues our dealers go through on a dialy basis, organize a group buy and you will. 2)One group buy I've been a part of has let me own a watch I could never have sourced at the time, and the other let me own a watch I never would have paid the single unit price for. 3)Within an 10 hours after posting a thread that proposed the idea of a group buy on a nice watch, I had three unsolicited bids from dealers.so I doubt group buys harm dealers at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted September 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Strongly disagree,..with many of the premises in this thread. I cannot say I am surprised -- I rather imagined that you would disagree, but then I am widely known for my Psychic Connection . . . or was that Lucy's Lust Line? I get easily confused. The savings issue is worth commenting on. When the first 500 HP Mustangs show up on dealer lots, they will be priced at Retail Plus. If it took someone 6 months to put together a group buy, they would each save thousands - but see what happens if anyone waits six months. Fortunately, the watch world makes that swing in a matter of days or weeks. On your behalf, I would say that I admire your altruistic intent. Seldom have I seen anyone go to such lengths and aggravation for a group when they had nothing personally to gain. I suppose it's ultimately a matter of preference. I prefer to make my own deals, and select my own business associates. If others choose to have you, or anyone else, negotiate on their behalf, that's their choice too. All I am saying is thqat the "business is business" attitude is a bit simplistic. This is hardly the typical marketplace, and we are not buying conventional market goods here. As with most things, time will tell. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 That watch was selling...{and it was selling} for with shipping for $345.. Some dealers then took it down to $300, but don't for a moment think that if everyone was gladly forking over $300 that the price would have dropped... Bidding made it fall... and Quickly.... Why should anyone pay an extra $75 to $100 for a First release watch ? I do agree with what RT says above. A group buy does reduce the intial HIGH price of a new rep! This is a biggie, I agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 All I am saying is thqat the "business is business" attitude is a bit simplistic. This is hardly the typical marketplace, and we are not buying conventional market goods here. As with most things, time will tell. Bill Well it is simplistic because busines is exactly that - simple business. And you might be the lucky one who is able to buy this watch for say $190 in a couple of months - believe me no-one loses out in these deals or they wouldn't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk45ca Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Well it is simplistic because busines is exactly that - simple business. And you might be the lucky one who is able to buy this watch for say $190 in a couple of months - believe me no-one loses out in these deals or they wouldn't do it. agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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