Raffle Controversy at RWI?

[9postguy]

Not really sure why this is relevant or appropriate as a topic on this forum, since RWG is not involved in the issues or as a chosen home for the involved parties. Would it not have been better to allow RWI and/or RG to work through this with their leadership and membership?

9p

[ubiquitous]

Not really sure why this is relevant or appropriate as a topic on this forum, since RWG is not involved in the issues or as a chosen home for the involved parties. Would it not have been better to allow RWI and/or RG to work through this with their leadership and membership?

9p

As a neutral forum, and with several members from RWI visiting while their home is being rebuilt, I don't see any reason why this sort of topic can't be discussed here?

[9postguy]

As a neutral forum, and with several members from RWI visiting while their home is being rebuilt, I don't see any reason why this sort of topic can't be discussed here?

I hear you. And I don't suggest that it "can't" be discussed, just that it might not be the best place for it (especially while RWI is down for a bit). I've gained a sense, from reading all 4 forums, that the leadership of each maintains a mutual respect and trust for the others and maintains a hands-off approach to internal issues and policies of the others. But that is just a sense I have gained, and I haven't been around very long at all so I could be way off.

One thing is for sure, there is a lot to learn here.

9p

[TwoTone]

Not really sure why this is relevant or appropriate as a topic on this forum, since RWG is not involved in the issues or as a chosen home for the involved parties. Would it not have been better to allow RWI and/or RG to work through this with their leadership and membership?

In the best attempt possible we have always had a non-censorship approach to the forum...

Lani is the Raffle Meister here, sure, but more importantly, he's a member...

TT

[ubiquitous]

I understand your position and view on this as well, and agree- These situations can be a bit sensitive as discussion topics. However, I am sure that there were plenty of questions and rumors floating about regarding the issues at hand and I don't think any harm was intended by this thread; more than anything, I think it was a pre-empted effort to help clear the air before things got out of hand; it doesn't take long for rumors to spiral out of control and I think it's good to get both sides of the story out in the open instead of letting people speculate as to what transpired.

As an aside, I do hope that some of the RWI regulars decide to spend a little more time here as well. It's been nice having some new faces about and great discussions as well!

[lanikai]

I hear you. And I don't suggest that it "can't" be discussed, just that it might not be the best place for it (especially while RWI is down for a bit). I've gained a sense, from reading all 4 forums, that the leadership of each maintains a mutual respect and trust for the others and maintains a hands-off approach to internal issues and policies of the others. But that is just a sense I have gained, and I haven't been around very long at all so I could be way off.

One thing is for sure, there is a lot to learn here.

9p

This thread is not started by RWG's Admin Team.. they do take a neutral stance on other fora's biz.. imo..there are members who belong to all the rep forums on the net... no one is taking sides with any of the parties involved, Nor is RWG making any accusations..we as members trade with others on RWI and RG.. members here enter raffles at all the fora's

I am a member here and do not represent the Admin Team.. and other members here also belong to RWI and RG .. the doors are always open here, as well as with RWI and RG I'm sure.. weather you call this home or not, everyone is welcomed.

We are in fact "neutral" ground and because of this it may be a good place for the parties involved to voice their side of the facts..

some may say that this is not our business.. but rather than let these allegations grow into negatives towards personalities.. and RWG always demonstrating it's latitude for discussion.. it can only serve as a good thing for all..

Edit Add: ..if a gen watch is put up for raffle.. it should be the owner of the watch that sets the price .."if" the forum agrees to it and the price of the tickets are set before hand.. I see nothing wrong..

conversely, I have turned down numerous offers due to the high price that the owner wanted.. I could not justify the ticket prices or the number of tickets.. in other words our gen raffles are to raise money for our usage not to help the owner sell his gen for a retail price... the genuine raffles that we have had has been sponsored by members who actually got less for their watch than posting it on one of the gen fora's.. and in one instance a member bought a grail Rolex just to raffle it here.. and did not make a penny off of the watch.. so for us it is a matter of getting members the opportunity to win a gen grail watch.. and for the forum to stay self sufficient..

but any raffle is an auction of sorts..we had an opportunity to raffle a PO.. at a very good price.. that was being worked on by a member and his watch smith.. "but".. it would of had to of been fully serviced to be fit for our members.. and that would of raised the price by a little under 500 usd.. and I didn't feel passing it on to the ticket price would of been a win-win situation..

but if a member opts to sell his gen for raffle it's is really up to the owner what that price should be..

[LegendofSpeed]

Lanikai had a question and I answered it... although he is not on staff, he is a very respected member of RWG and I am sure he felt it was warranted to ask... it was done with the same amount of class as everything else he does and now that an answer has been made, we can move on...

What effects the community matters to everyone... I would agree that discussion of how a staff of another board treated a situation should not be tolerated out of respect for that which may not be known... but this was not the case here...

[9postguy]

Lanikai had a question and I answered it...

and now that an answer has been made, we can move on...

What effects the community matters to everyone...

I would agree that discussion of how a staff of another board treated a situation should not be tolerated out of respect for that which may not be known... but this was not the case here...

Great class on both your parts, Lanikai and LoS.

9p

[mw1015]

being a regular member on RWI, this post has made me really sad. i don't know the internal workings of the admin team on RWI but they a have always been extremely professional in every circumstance. this post and the accusations caught me by surprise and have blown me away. LoS, you have my respect and i was sad to see you leave - especially with no apparent reason. thanks for everything you did for us members on RWI. thanks for posting here and offering us RWI members some closure as to why you left.

[lanikai]

being a regular member on RWI, this post has made me really sad. i don't know the internal workings of the admin team on RWI but they a have always been extremely professional in every circumstance. this post and the accusations caught me by surprise and have blown me away. LoS, you have my respect and i was sad to see you leave - especially with no apparent reason. thanks for everything you did for us members on RWI. thanks for posting here and offering us RWI members some closure as to why you left.

The reason for this thread mw is so accusations don't turn Ugly..

LOS has stepped up to the plate to address them.. silence would of spoken volumes .. but he came here without being alerted and addressed the issue ..I feel for all of you .. and hope we have helped in someway to put your mind at ease..

[Guest techlogik]

Oh the internet drama..."Like sands in the hour glass, so are the days of our lives...."

[mw1015]

the hontroversy!

[KB]

I can see nothing negative about this thread, Lani asked what happened (natural curiosity) and to his credit LOS stepped up to give his account.

The positive is that with the facts on the table it will stop the rumour mill.

Some of us travel to all the forums some don't but we all like to know what is happening.

Ken

[andygt]

First, I find it bothersome that a mod/main person of that forum also sells watches for profit like a dealer would. Seems like a conflict of interest to me.

I've had enough PMs from people on that forum, and personal observations to put two and two together that something is amiss and wrong with how it is operated/managed.

I personally don't care one way or the other if that place blows up and never returns.

RWG then RG in that order of perference for me personally. It would be nice if people from RWI would come hang over here and up the traffic, information sharing, join and contribute!

Wishful thinking.

techlogik, could you elaborate further? You have been making these comments about RWI for some time now and I think that if there are things amiss then people should be made aware of it. I'm a member of RWI too and if there is something that members should know about then please lets have it out in the open for everyones benefit.

the hontroversy!

fully plated in best Hont rose gold.

[lanikai]

“When a man points a finger at someone else, he should remember that four of his fingers are pointing at himself.”

Louis Nizer

“I do think the patriotic thing to do is to critique my country. How else do you make a country better but by pointing out its flaws?”

Bill Maher

We are an extended Community.. we share in a common interest.. we have a lot to learn form one another.. it would be a travesty if we just swept everything under the carpet!!

Drama ?? No... Life lessons... Yes..

Mistakes are "Learning Opportunities"

Drama is Haiti.. drama is not being able to put food on the table for children

This is merely to clear the air for perceived accusations..

after all even if this is the internet the accused has a right to answer the rumors..

[spooky driver]

LoS big respect to you for posting hear and explaining what's occurring epically when you feel you shouldn't need to justify your actions.

[peepshow]

Hmmmm, a couple of quick observations from me, hooligan, an Admin at RWI:

1. I don't know the specifics of LOS leaving the forum, and I'm sad to see him go. However, I respect his decision and his reasons are his own.

2. For anyone to accuse LOS or D4M of "mismanaging" funds from a raffle is beyond ridiculous, in my eyes. I have had zero involvement with raffles, donations or payments to vendors for keeping the site up. However, I have seen no evidence to suggest that anything has been mishandled. Further, I refuse to believe either LOS or D4M have intentionally mismanaged money in any way, shape or form. I also refuse to believe that the current server issues are connected in any way to the latest raffle or to LOS leaving RWI.

3. I fail to see any "conflict of interest" with Greg selling reps. It's not like he didn't allow other dealers to sell on RWI once he started. Plus, if you'd ever priced one of his watches, you'd know he wasn't making much profit per watch - he was the cheapest out there for almost everything.

techlogik, I would also be very interested to hear of these issues you see with the operation/management of RWI. Please do explain further. Let's hear it out here in a public space. I'm all ears...

Edited January 27, 2010 by peepshow

[Jb boin]

[Guest techlogik]

I'm not airing out anything publicly regarding any forum mod, dealer, rep/modder/watch repairer on the forums I've dealt with personally.

I've had my experiences, I draw my own conclusions.....let everyone figure it out for themselves like I did. Live and learn.

[andygt]

thats really helpful, thanks.

[andygt]

Oh and you already mentioned D4M or did you forget?

[indyberetta]

I am a member of all the different rep forums. I think they all have different "values". I like all of them.

Regarding Raffles: The point of a raffle is to make money for some "cause". As long as "some" of the money is used for that "cause" it is considered a "raffle". I know here on this forum, there is a fundraiser sales thread. To me, that is another way of raising money. It is the same thing...on the honor system. I can't remember if an actual "donation" amount was mentioned before the raffle, but that might be a good thing so there is no confusion on what the donation will be.

I know many times that people are not buying raffle tickets for the cause, but rather the "prize" they will receive. I am not saying that is 100% of the time, but mostly members feel that way. I know we all say that it is for the support of the cause...but come on...

D4ME does sell watches and I have purchased several from him. I can tell you that he does not make much on these as I know who his supplier is and his approx cost on them. They also allow other "dealers" to pawn there wares on the forum too so no conflict of interest there.

I hope that RWI does come back, as I would not want to see any of the forums go away. These forums ownership and management are not "transparent" for many good reasons. That is why we all go by user names. The ownership of a forum is private. Unless money was taken out of our pockets directly we should not care about what the money is used for as long as the forum is kept up and running. We all know that running a forum is not cheap and so supporting members are what usually what makes the forums stay running.

I would be interested in knowing if the RWI forum being down is due to money issues or tech issues. If it is due to money, maybe another raffle could be done on one of the other forums to help them out. Maybe a public statement by RWI might answer this question and stop speculation...

[doctorron]

So as I understand it... LOS put a beautiful gen Pam up for auction. A member won and received this beautiful watch. LOS worked very hard to organize and sell tickets for this auction, he make a humble profit, and donated what he thought was a fair and reasonable amount to RWI. LOS and D4Me disagreed about something which may or may not have had anything to do with the auction and feelings and friendships were damaged. They are both unhappy about the disagreement. The member who won the watch is very happy. The forum members are sad about the breakup and to top it all off the damn server went down. We the members are unhappy about that too. But if you step back and look at it, its not that big of a deal all the way around. All will work out fine.

[peepshow]

Tech issues, 100%, Indy. Not money issues. At least nothing that I'm aware of.

Oh, and nice cop-out, techlogik. I'm just going to come in and drop BS unfounded rumors, but my sense of morality keeps me from getting specific? What the hell kind of sense does that make?

[indyberetta]

Good to see you over here DoctorRon! I'll call you soon and we can do lunch!

So as I understand it... LOS put a beautiful gen Pam up for auction. A member won and received this beautiful watch. LOS worked very hard to organize and sell tickets for this auction, he make a humble profit, and donated what he thought was a fair and reasonable amount to RWI. LOS and D4Me disagreed about something which may or may not have had anything to do with the auction and feelings and friendships were damaged. They are both unhappy about the disagreement. The member who won the watch is very happy. The forum members are sad about the breakup and to top it all off the damn server went down. We the members are unhappy about that too. But if you step back and look at it, its not that big of a deal all the way around. All will work out fine.