Ronin Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Again, I have been an Apple fan, but I think this "lack luster" (iPod Jumbo) device is a good thing for the industry as a whole. The door is wide open for Android based platforms, and innovation from the likes of Asus and MSI, HP, etc. Also, I have to admit "Windows 7" ain't all that bad. A great opportunity for Google here. Apple could salvage this if they were to offer a "Pro" version that actually runs OS-X. (or enable multi-tasking, and a more compatible web browsing experience) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 OMFG, The "Classic Meme" redone.... LOL (If you speak German, like I do, you might need to mute so as not to understand the cross-talk) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakemaster Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Of course it will sell. Every loser with poor time management skills and no llfe will will want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 My iphone cant read a pdf file over 10megs w/o crashing the browser, and no other windows are open. I also cant find an official stand alone pdf reader Ok, that's very odd. Let me try it ... I'm not seeing the same problem as you. is this true of every 10+MB PDF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 For everyone who thinks the iPad is a poor Netbook replacement, have a read of this: http://speirs.org/blog/2010/1/29/future-shock.html Fraser gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 For everyone who thinks the iPad is a poor Netbook replacement, have a read of this: http://speirs.org/bl...ture-shock.html Fraser gets it. @J Very good read... It sparked a thought for me, truly... My mom is 72 and has never joined the world of computers... She still has a corded telephone, however she does have a cell, but only to make and receive calls - no texting or anything else... I have tried over the years to convince her to step out to no avail... After reading this article it hit me - "This is it"... Her birthday is coming up and I now know exactly what she's getting... Thanks! M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Thanks! I'll pass on your comments to the article's author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 No, it doesn't. It probably won't, either. Not unless something drastic happens to change both Adobe and Apple's minds on how they do business. Besides, how would you use it? There's no mouse-hover or key input. Ah, shows what I know about iStuff. Oh well, I guess it won't meet the needs of my 5 year old, if he can't even get the full experience from legos.com etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 pug try loading a pdf comprised of scanned images, like a "dummys" book or a magazine. my pod cant handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Ah, shows what I know about iStuff. Oh well, I guess it won't meet the needs of my 5 year old, if he can't even get the full experience from legos.com etc I'm not sure it's aimed at the 5-year old lego market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 pug try loading a pdf comprised of scanned images, like a "dummys" book or a magazine. my pod cant handle it. Give me a link to one and I'll try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Nice article Pug, I largely agree, and some of those reasons are why I switched my family to Mac's. (Again, I am a huge Apple fan) I have been been a big fan of "Applianceizing" computers. That is the reason I have a Mac Mini as a HTPC, and another Mac dedicated to video editing, etc. However FTA: If the iPad and its successor devices free these people to focus on what they do best, it will dramatically change people's perceptions of computing from something to fear to something to engage enthusiastically with. I find it hard to believe that the loss of background processing isn't a price worth paying to have a computer that isn't frightening anymore. That is just it, I am not convinced it will. After switching my family to Mac's and iPhone's two things happend. 1.) The calls about their "PC's" slowing down, and Malware/Virus stopped! . 2.) Calls began about things like: I can't access my work's "extranet" application (that relied too heavily on Microsoft crap). My wife recently encountered an .edu site she needed access to for some important homework stuff. Again, a piss poor developer relied on too many Microsoft specific calls. On a related iPhone and thus iPad issue, I would get frustration from friends and family about not being able to access "their favorite restaurant, Realtor, yoga studio" web site because-- the site was done in FLASH. So I guess the frustration simply lies in the fact that Apple gets you 90% of the way. That last 10% leads to the second guessing, and frustration. I know people who have "switched back" to PC who would rather take their chances with MalWare/Virus, so that they can regain 100% Web and Work functionality. Looking at pictures of your kids on your whiz bang device only gets you so far. If the niche for this is as a living room, airplane, train, device that is fine. But without 100% web compatibility, and multi-tasking (what good is running iWork apps on this, if for example you can not cut-n-paste from Safari, or an email into your Presentation) it is simply a Jumbo iPod. Imagine if instead of Flash, this did not support Java... Technically, Java is the #2 web technology behind Flash. Apple had a chance to invent something NEW here, they did not. They had a chance to bury the PC based tablet, and Netbook, they did not. They took an existing product, enlarged it, added a few features. It might sound like a conspiracy theory, but things like Flash, and Blu-Ray support (on Mac's), and keeping you "locked" into their stores all have financial underpinnings here. At the end of the day it is all about Share Holder value. I dunno, time will tell. Another "Fail" is when they announced this. The device has not received FCC approval yet (it will, no doubt), the first ones are 30 days out. I think with all the bad press, and hype cooling off, their early announcement may do more harm than good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Quick follow up. If I gave one of these to my 70 year old Father, who is quite savvy on his Mac Mini, the first call I would get would be: Q) Son? A) Yeah Dad? Q) Why can't I pull up the menu from "Jimmy Bob's Steak House" on this new thing. A) Well Dad, "Jimmy Bob's Steak House's" web developer is a moron, who only programed the web site using Flash technology. Q) So I want to show my Lady Friend the menu, what should I do? A) Walk over to your Mac Mini in the other room, and pull it up [in Firefox (his default browser)] Q) Thanks Son, ohh, does this explains why I couldn't play www.flashchess3.com or that Tower Defense game. A) Yup... You might want to look for suitable replacements in the iTunes App Store. Sigh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchurch Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 couldn't you just use it to access the other computer with a remote connection... problem resolved lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 couldn't you just use it to access the other computer with a remote connection... problem resolved lol. Sorta defeats the purpose of "ease of use". (In my wifes case, yes she remote desktops into a Windows PC on our network). Explain remote access to the 70 year old. Ohh, and most of those quality remote desktop applications from the "App Store" cost $. I can see the explanation now. Here is your new cool whiz bang device. For the x% of web sites you can't view, launch this application, login to this Windows machine, and try it there. Ohh, and if you need to download a file that ends up on the PC, make sure to move it to either your .Me account, or DropBox. Sigh x2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchurch Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Sorta defeats the purpose of "ease of use". (In my wifes case, yes she remote desktops into a Windows PC on our network). Explain remote access to the 70 year old. Ohh, and most of those quality remote desktop applications from the "App Store" cost $. I can see the explanation now. Here is your new cool whiz bang device. For the x% of web sites you can't view, launch this application, login to this Windows machine, and try it there. Ohh, and if you need to download a file that ends up on the PC, make sure to move it to either your .Me account, or DropBox. Sigh x2. yeah... or just buy a cheap netbook which is my plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 I'm not sure it's aimed at the 5-year old lego market. Sure, but it's a shame that web browsing is hindered by this. And I'm honestly not sure there is a big market. TwoTone definitely pointed out the type of person it might be very well suited to. But that's not a statistically significant market either. So maybe it'll end up giving the Newton a run for its money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Looking at pictures of your kids on your whiz bang device only gets you so far. If the niche for this is as a living room, airplane, train, device that is fine. But without 100% web compatibility, and multi-tasking (what good is running iWork apps on this, if for example you can not cut-n-paste from Safari, or an email into your Presentation) it is simply a Jumbo iPod. You can copy/paste from iWork to Mail. Why would you not be able to do that? Are you confusing multi-tasking with task-switching? Imagine if instead of Flash, this did not support Java... Technically, Java is the #2 web technology behind Flash. It doesn't support Java. Are you confusing Java with Javascript? I dunno, time will tell. Another "Fail" is when they announced this. The device has not received FCC approval yet (it will, no doubt), the first ones are 30 days out. I think with all the bad press, and hype cooling off, their early announcement may do more harm than good. Imagine if they'd waited until they had FCC approval. We'd all have known about it then. When you put a device to the FCC for approval, it is no longer a secret. Apple had to do it this way to control the information. This is exactly how they released the iPhone, as it also required FCC approval. This wasn't an "early announcement" by any company's standards but Apple's. Apple are probably the only tech company out there that never show prototypes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 You can copy/paste from iWork to Mail. Why would you not be able to do that? Are you confusing multi-tasking with task-switching? It doesn't support Java. Are you confusing Java with Javascript? Not to be so literal, but, what I meant, and correct me if I am wrong, you can not have Mail and Numbers open at the same time. So you can not bounce between the two applications cutting and pasting whimsically. True to your point, I could have been in Mail, copied some text. Closed Mail, opened Numbers, pasted the text. Yes, I meant to say Javascript. Funny thing is, as you mentioned no "Java". So this immediately would negate my ability to access my corporate expense reporting system, or Ciscoworks web application. At least in full function OS-X I can have Java and Flash. The "early" release without "pre-order" ability is where I think they will loose the sales. No pre-order because of no FCC approval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Not to be so literal, but, what I meant, and correct me if I am wrong, you can not have Mail and Numbers open at the same time. So you can not bounce between the two applications cutting and pasting whimsically. True to your point, I could have been in Mail, copied some text. Closed Mail, opened Numbers, pasted the text. Yes, I meant to say Javascript. Funny thing is, as you mentioned no "Java". So this immediately would negate my ability to access my corporate expense reporting system, or Ciscoworks web application. At least in full function OS-X I can have Java and Flash. The "early" release without "pre-order" ability is where I think they will loose the sales. No pre-order because of no FCC approval. Pre-orders are illegal in most states anyway. This process didn't hurt the iPhone. If you've used an iPhone, you'll see that bouncing between apps is really, really easy. Every application knows its state will be interrupted by an incoming phone call so all apps store their state and data on the fly. Of you copy the text, switch to mail, paste and swap back, it'll be as quick as true multi-tasking. The downside of no multi-tasking isn't app switching; it's background services, like Twitter, AIM and the like, and I don't think the iPad will have the iPhone's Push notifications. And on Javascript being the second-most prevalent after Flash, you've got it the wrong way round: Every modern browser supports Javascript. It's much more common than Flash by quite a significant margin. It's not a fair comparison though, because Javascript is a standard and Flash is a proprietary closed plug-in. Anyone writing a browser can write their own Javascript interpreter (and they all do) but only Adobe can build a Flash Plug-in. There's no Flash on Android, iPhone, Blackberry or Palm Pre, for instance, and three out of those four don't even have a closed app structure. No Flash is like no Floppy in the original iMac. You'll scream like blue murder that it's not there, but when you use it, you'll not miss it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Excellent debate... And extremely informative... Thanks for your participation gentlemen... TT PS: Pugs, it's really okay if you indulge yourself a little here and loosen up... You don't always have to be a nerd 100% of the time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 I have a simple idea to improve the iPad, or at least to make a product line that gives consumers more than one option (besides 3G / no 3G). They really ought to make a larger one that is the size of a standard sheet of paper. And they can call it the iMaxipad. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 the thing you need to realize about macs NOT having viruses is that it's not that theyre IMMUNE, it's there user base is not large enough to warrant such out of control problems. So it's a double edged sword, the more people that buy them the sooner viruses become a daily fact of life for a mac user. In fact a virus for mac does exist to prove it could be done. So right now it's a good selling point for the novice user, but in my 15 years of using PCs i've NEVER had problems with viruses, it's all about begin educated , vigilant, and using common sense, (and i've visited numerous warez sites as a youngin')the average PC user can as well avoid viruses with little effort, but they have to be willing to make that effort, much like avoiding an std, it can be done easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 No Flash is like no Floppy in the original iMac. You'll scream like blue murder that it's not there, but when you use it, you'll not miss it at all. Is that a part of the marketing campaign? "Trust us. You won't miss having 30-40% of the web come up blank when you use it." But I guess that's sort of the point: It's just a giant iPhone. It's not revolutionary. Now I'm sure the iPhone is a nifty toy, but I just can't think of why I would need one. But, then, according to that article you linked to a few posts back, the computers of the future don't actually do anything useful. Hrmm, well it's not like I'm asking how to run linux on it. I'm simply wondering how someone would use it to replace a Windows PC. The typical Windows user wants to fire up Word or Excel and get stuff done. Most peeps won't want to use Office apps with a crappy on-screen keyboard, and apple didn't provide a USB port on this thing. Even if they had, though, I suppose that would have defeated the purpose of relative portability and simplicity. Anyhow, don't get me wrong, I can definitely see it being a fun toy for watching movies, surfing 60% of the web, and playing games (that you have to pay for). And I certainly can appreciate the simplicity of this device. But beyond that.... it just doesn't do enough. And that's not the future to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Good rant by Jobs... http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/01/googles-dont-be-evil-mantra-is-bullshit-adobe-is-lazy-apples-steve-jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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