Review: SOSF

[dovo1695]

Breitling Super Ocean Steelfish X-Plus

Replica Swiss vs. Replica Asian

Disclaimer: I’m still a bit of a noob myself so I want to make it clear that review is just the opinion of a relatively inexperienced Rep enthusiast. I would actually appreciate it if more senior members could point flaws in the watches themselves that I have omitted or flaws in my assumptions/reasoning. I’ll be more than happy to update the review so that future readers can have the benefit of their experience. I can also appreciate the absurdity of posting my first review ever only days after Bytor posted his amazing rep vs gen comparison of the SOSF; he's a bit of a hard act to follow!!!

Executive Summary: I suggest that you heed Bytor’s recent advice that if you want a genuine super-rep you’d best go to precious-time. The Swiss version that I received from Silix is inferior in every way to the Silix Asian version with the exception of the superior movement (and even this assumes the Swiss Eta is the real thing). Most interestingly, the double AR on the blue Swiss watch made it dramatically more reflective than its AR-Free Asian cousin. Since for me, AR was the only reason that I would be willing to pay a 250% premium for the Swiss version, I can assure you that I was sorely disappointed. That said, both are very nice watches and cost aside, I’m relatively happy with them both. The build quality on both watches is exceptional; you really have to hold a SOSF in your hand to appreciate it.

Context

I recently purchased an Asian SuperOcean Steefish and a Swiss SuperOcean Steefish from Silix. After reading Lanikai’s superb comparison review of the white dialed Asian SOSF vs the Swiss SOSF I was inspired to write up a short review myself. I’ve been enjoying this community for two years and I have had a great deal of fun, learned a little bit, and managed to avoid some bad purchases. This is my humble attempt to give a little bit back. I was also very curious to see how much of a difference the double AR made on a black dialed watch. Conventional wisdom dictates that on blue or black dialed versions of this watch, double AR is a necessity to avoid undue dial reflection. Additionally, the SOSF is intriguing at the moment. Since its super-rep days of a few years ago, multiple inferior versions have started to enter the market that are priced comparably to the original super-rep. Without getting an advanced photograph prior to shipment, there really isn’t any way to be sure of what you will be receiving.

Unfortunately for me, I was mailed one blue watch and one black watch which rather undermines the spirit of the review. Just the same, I think that my findings, though restricted to only a single dealer at a single point in time, might be interesting to others. Before I begin, I’d like to add my name to the chorus thanking Pugwash for his terrific 3 part series on watch photography. I literally spent 3 hours taking pictures of my watches with abysmal results before I had the sense to use the search function to find a photography tutorial. It took me 15 minutes to read his tutorial and 30 minutes to take the pictures thereafter. I’ll be the first to admit that at best they represent a humbling first attempt, but they’re 1000 times better than the best I managed in the 3 hours prior to reading his tutorial (the originals were that bad!). It gave me newfound admiration for guy’s like Pugwash, Lanikai, Bytor and Pix. I still have no idea how they do it. With preamble out of the way, let’s get down to business.

Swiss SOSF in Blue, Asian SOSF in Black

Gen (Photo by Bytor)

Asian SOSF X-Plus

Swiss SOSF X-Plus

Bezel: This is one area where the Swiss version is actually superior to the Asian version. The Asian version has relatively shallow engraving. The Swiss version has much deeper engravings that appear stamped rather than etched.

Case: The case of the Swiss version is actually smaller than that of the asian version! If you look at case at the 9 o’clock position on the Swiss version, you’ll not that the case is almost flush with the bezel. On the Asian version it actually protrudes a good 1.5mm. Viewed from the side the Asian version is actually thicker. The case forks (not the actual term) are also about 20% thicker on each side. I noticed this in the pics that Silix sent to me (after he had shipped them). I thought it was just an optical illusion!!!

Crown Guards: The crownguards on the Swiss model are nowhere near as good as those on the Asian version. The crown guards on the Swiss protrude only 25% of the way into the crown vs 50% for the asian version (and the gen). This constitutes a significant difference visually even from a few feet away. A big argument in favor of the Asian version.

Hands: The hands on the Swiss version are completely different than those on the Asian version. The box on the seconds hand is about 30% larger than on the asian (and gen). The minute and hour hands are about 20% wider with more metal on the framing skeleton around the lume. The caveat I would add to those looking for a SOSF is that its not whether or not the watch has box second hands or arrow second hands, it’s how large the box on the second hand are. The second hand should be the same width as the number 15 on the dial (at the 3 O’clock position). Another tip off is when the red paint on the second hand extends above the box by around 1.5mm.

Dial: The dials on the two watches appear nearly identical to my eye with respect to fonts and printing. The big difference is in the concentric guilloche, which is far more pronounced on the Asian version (it’s really quite beautiful). On the Swiss version this guilloche is invisible unless viewing the dial at a <15 degree or greater than 160 degree angle (you can’t see it unless you look at it from the side when it’s almost level with your eye).

Reflectiveness: The Swiss version with double AR is at least twice as reflective as the non-AR asian version. It was extremely difficult photographing the dial of the Blue Swiss in any lighting. The black dial with no AR was considerably better. Lest anyone ask, I’m positive that the blue dial has the AR because it shows that tell-tale blue sheen when viewed at an angle. Interestingly, the AR is somewhat similar to the AR on my Narikka PO (Porikka). Having seen the three side by side, I can easily say that I won’t be buying a watch with factory AR in the future. In fact, I’m trying to figure out how to strip the stuff of my crystals now that I know how much less reflection is created when there isn’t factory AR. You’ll note in the photos that you can typically see the reflection of the camera in the dial of the blue Swiss SOSF. You can just barely see it on the Asian black dial. It’s even worse in real life since I was trying to minimize the reflection in the pictures to show dial details. In real life you could get a pretty good shave using the dial of the Swiss with “double AR”. I might be sending my first watch to Chieftang to see what real AR looks like!

Bracelet: The bracelet of the Asian version is also superior to the Swiss version. Note how much of a gap there is between the end of the first link and the end of the case-forks (not sure what the technical term is). In the second set of pics you’ll notice that the Asian bracelet says “Registered Model” whereas the Swiss Version says “Modele Depose”. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can say which is more appropriate.

Asian SOSF

Swiss SOSF

Asian SOSF

Swiss SOSF

Pearl: Here the Asian version proves superior. Note how small the lume portion of the pearl is on the Swiss Version ( I had problems getting the focus right on this pic

[cougaree]

Thanks for the review! It's awesome, good job!

I think you've got an inferior swiss sosf. Mine, which I bought about a year ago from another member is bit different than yours. Its exterior (case, crystal, bezel, crown, dial and hands) actually looked closer to BT's old fish, except mine had "Omega" etched on rotor for some reason. Zigmeister looked at it and told me it's an Asian clone movement.

Edited March 1, 2010 by cougaree

[By-Tor]

What an extraordinary review!!! Don't be too modest, this is much better than my gen vs. rep comparison. I've become lazy lately... I just shoot the watch pic porn and compose some blahblah around it. This is actually useful stuff. And who even wants to read a review of a gen... there's very little to say.

That blue version doesn't seem to have AR at all (imho). The 2xAR on the Swiss version doesn't look like that... it should be very, very apparent and good.

And the concentric dial "quillouche" (or however it's spelled) is just less apparent on the blue version. It's not just this version, it was the same issue with my Swiss blue from the initial batch. Black dial is more accurate in every way. The datefont doesn't seem to be ETA, either... so I guess cougaree is right. You received an inferior watch.

They both look very good replications to me, but the SELs are no good. That's why I purchased a bracelet from the initial batch and replaced it for my black rep. I guess they're all like that these days (unless you get lucky). The last link that connects to the SEL should be straight but it was angled just like the other middle links. PT replaced it for me of course.

And the gen "B" on the crown has the larger loop. That's more correct.

PS: I wish we'd see more reviews like this. Amazing stuff, and thanks for taking the time!!

[lanikai]

Just some pics of the white dial to add to your great review..

Asian on the left

Asian on the right

Asian

Swiss

AC/Lani

[Slartibartfast]

Superb write-up with great reference pics too.

Feeling sorry I let mine go now!

Thanks for the effort Dovo

[cougaree]

This is mine look like.

[By-Tor]

The real "Ultimate" Swiss version has amazing AR. It's every bit as good as the gen (imho). Here's another comparison shot that shows it. There's no reflection on the dial.

The bezel is superb, case is superb... it's almost freaky how good the rep is. Too bad the dial texture and ivory, flat hour markers aren't quite up there.

Gen has a bit different crown guards (as you stated) and the caseback engraving is a little bit nicer. But who really cares... those are almost impossible to notice without putting them side-by-side.

Gen vs. rep.

[plaifender]

awesome areview Dovo! It really looks as if you've received an inferior Swiss SOSF. My AR on my swiss is amazing (white dial)... Gen breits are usually very bluish with the AR and my rep captures that. I've had both watches and recently sold my asian to another member. My asian was from silix:

My swiss version.. notice the AR:

[opti]

Great review, very informative and good pics

[dovo1695]

@ Cougaree, Bytor, and Plaifender,

I agree. I got a bum version. The best SOSF version is definitely among the best reps out there as your pics make evident. In the future I'll won't be buying a $300 watch sight unseen. With Silix I feel like you can really get lucky sometimes and get some great deals. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Thats half the fun of this hobby. Another part of the fun is sharing the results of such gambles with fellow watch enthusiasts!

Although I'm a little disappointed with the Swiss version, I'm actually really, really happy with the Asian one. Silix is selling it for about 50% less than other dealers ($100 vs $158). It's far and away the best rep I've received for $100. It's even better than my Porikka, which heretofore was my daily beater and favorite rep!

[By-Tor]

This kind of information is extremely valuable for the members. Steelfish must be among the best selling reps ever and it's just as popular as ever today.

Precious Time can definitely still get the good one. But looks like even those can have occasional SEL QC issues. Not all people notice the SELs but for me nicely fitting SELs are one of the most important things on a good quality watch. Rep or gen. Unfortunately makers don't pay enough attention to this. They look great on Cougaree's "1st gen" Fish. That's why I hunted an "old school" bracelet for my black rep Fish too.

[plaifender]

@ Cougaree, Bytor, and Plaifender,

I agree. I got a bum version. The best SOSF version is definitely among the best reps out there as your pics make evident. In the future I'll won't be buying a $300 watch sight unseen. With Silix I feel like you can really get lucky sometimes and get some great deals. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Thats half the fun of this hobby. Another part of the fun is sharing the results of such gambles with fellow watch enthusiasts!

Although I'm a little disappointed with the Swiss version, I'm actually really, really happy with the Asian one. Silix is selling it for about 50% less than other dealers ($100 vs $158). It's far and away the best rep I've received for $100. It's even better than my Porikka, which heretofore was my daily beater and favorite rep!

So why don't you contact Jay for a refund or to exchange the swiss version watch.. no use in keeping it....

[cougaree]

Just got my watch back. The upgraded the dw to gen dw from a Colt Ocean watch (and rotor, but you won't see it) and installed a gen new Swiss ETA 2824-2. Tomorrow I will install the Pro I bracelet. Stay tuned.

[dovo1695]

@ Lanikai,

Thanks for posting the pics of the white dial SOSF Asian vs SOSF Swiss! Those were the very pictures that got me thinking about the SOSF and whether or not I should go with the Asian version. I guess now I know for sure!

Thanks,

Dovo

[dovo1695]

So why don't you contact Jay for a refund or to exchange the swiss version watch.. no use in keeping it....

@ Plaifender,

I requested an exchange from Silix originally because it had the wrong dial color while the watch was still in transit. Silix told me that the best he could do was to send me a black dial for replacement.

I have been starting to seriously think about sending it back again now that I know the extent of it's defects. Do you think it would be possible? I thought you could only do that if the watch had a mechanical failure of some kind and didn't work. This one works, I'm just unhappy that its a cheap knock-off of a great knock-off ! I've never sent a watch back before and I'm not sure what the "rules" are.

Thanks,

Dovo

[amptor]

That's a good review. I like my Asian one. I actually had the swiss one from T4D and it had flaws straight out of the factory unless it was like some refurbished watch or something which it almost appeared to be. It was inexpensive, but the watch I have now is a lot better. No obvious flaws on the dial, no flawed screws, none of that stuff the dealer refused to address.

It is difficult to find a good dealer, even trusted dealers... I've had almost every trusted dealer send me watches with flaws. Puretime and Watcheden were very helpful in resolving issues but the watches I ended up keeping from them have glaring flaws also. I'd say overall right now I am happy with aoobuy although they sent me watches that had flaws as well but at least they respond to all emails and are somewhat helpful.

The only dealer that didn't send me a bad watch was Ruby. But I only ordered one watch from her.

Well I did notice the B was big on the crown of my asian SOSF and I do like that. I don't feel like diddling around comparing it to gen etc etc... you end up wanting to buy a different watch when you do that. Which is the point I am at with my new submariner but that is just getting a bit carried away. I mean if you buy a rep rollie for $70 and then switch up to one that cost $200 they both still are reps I mean the only way to get a 1:1 is to go to the AD except that'd run u a cool $30k.

But yeah I would suggest getting photos first. Aoobuy told me that the watch I would receive was EXACTLY the same one as the SOSF in his photo. And he was legit, it was the same watch and it is a very immaculate piece imho. It would be nice to have high beat but nobody's selling an ETA clone any more. And when I did own an ETA clone it wasn't even that great of a watch over all besides the movement inside. I could probably write a whole two paragraphs about the flaws in that watch.

[dovo1695]

That blue version doesn't seem to have AR at all (imho). The 2xAR on the Swiss version doesn't look like that... it should be very, very apparent and good.

@ Bytor,

It really does look like it lacks AR in most of pics. I didn't really have the lighting to bring it out. It has AR that's lighter and much worse than single sided AR that’s on my POrikka 42mm Planet Ocean rep. These pictures don’t really capture it but the coating winds up being reflective at almost any angle in almost any lighting. I'm going to start calling it "ER" (Extra Reflective) coating instead .

There's some kind of coating on there allright...the pic below should highlight it a bit better.

-Dovo

[woody]

oh wow, dovo, now i am deeply concerned. my purchase of swiss fish is through silix, and i have asked for him to send me some pictures. he had sent them to me, but I cannot post them here because I am at work. I do think mine is very close to your swiss fish, versus being close to BT's. mine is a black dial, and I was not able to tell the AR too true, because it has that top protective film on in the pictures. I will ask him to see if he can look into it, and perhaps point him into this thread and have him take a look at it himself.....thanks for the nice review.

[By-Tor]

@dovo: I'm a moderator here and Silix is one of our dealers (I think). But as a member I would say that you got extremely bad service and got borderline scammed. Those Fishes DO NOT have AR at all. They're NOT the "Ultimate" version as we know it.

And if he sent you wrong colored watch he should have replaced it without any further questions asked. Sending a replacement dial isn't sufficient because we're not watchsmiths but customers.

[plaifender]

Dovo.. there should be no problem if you'd like to give the watch back. The watch is obviously not one of the "ultimate" swiss ones that most of us have. I would write Jay(silix) and tell him you'd like to return the watch for something else or ask for a credit in the difference in price.. He can hopefully do something. If he gives you a refund.. take your business to Angus at puretimes or josh at perfectclones. Neither of them will let you down and the prices won't be far off from Silix's.

[woody]

one other thing that I have noticed is the seconds hand. On dovo's swiss, the seconds hand's red paint go beyond the square, and into the needle. and the picture I was sent was also like that. however, looking at all of the various ultimate SFSO, none of them have the red paint done that way, beyond the square tip that is. So I am just sad, as I have pretty much confirmed that for sure the factory that does Silix's ultimate version is not the one from say Josh or Angus. just disappointed now, as I'd think I am going to ask for a refund back as I have not taken delivery yet on the watch. what do you guys think?

[dovo1695]

@ Bytor and Plaifender,

Thanks for the feedback, it's greatly appreciated. I emailed Silix and let him know that the Swiss SOSF is not what I ordered and asked for a refund. We'll see what happens.

I'd like to reiterate that I'm not knocking Silix here. He's been a dealing honestly on this board far longer than I have been a member. As I said in my review, it is of a single watch at a single point in time. For all I know, someone picked the wrong watch out of the wrong bin to fill the order. Mistakes happen. My opinion of Silix as a dealer will be formed based on how he responds when a mistake has been made.

@ Woody,

Don't give up yet. There have been quite a number of second hands out there, even on the best/ultimate version. With luck you'll get an Ultimate version and my experience was just a one time event. The biggest tell is the crown guard. If you're worried about it, you can post the picks or send them too me and I'd be happy to take a look and let you know.

-Dovo

[woody]

here are the pictures that were sent to me. I think there's a big difference between the swiss version of silix, versus the josh/angus/andrew version. I am going to email silix and see if I can get a refund and start over the search for my ultimate SFSO.

[dovo1695]

here are the pictures that were sent to me.

Hmmmm... Same bezel, hands, solid end links, and bracelet. The good news is that the crownguards look much better on yours than they do on mine. Maybe I got a particularly bad one. The biggest thing is the double AR, which you won't be able to see until it arrives. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. Don't give up yet!

-Dovo

[jaigo]

So who sells the best SOSF?