automatico Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I started out with genuine rolex watches 40 years ago and wore them for years without a lot of mechanical problems and everything was Ok. I stayed with genuine vintage rolex and never cared for the sapphire models but as times changed, I was not going to pay $3k to $5k for the same watch I paid $1000 for a few years ago (and sold for maybe $1100) so I got into replicas and never looked back. During the 'rolex years' I got to know a first class rolex AD watch mechanic and learned how to work on them with his help along with help from two other local CMW. This has proved to be a my best 'watch investment' as time goes by. But there is always a catch... Until the 2000's genuine parts were relatively easy to get for most vintage 1030/1530 base rolex but now most USA parts accounts have been cut off while many vintage parts have been discontinued making parts a big problem...another good reason to go with replicas. In the long run, parts can become more important than the product. It seems Europe is no better, I saw this a couple weeks ago on TRF: "... a green 16610LV insert costs almost CHF500 as opposed to CHF70 just a few months ago..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeaye Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I'm obviously the minority here, but I never intend to get a gen. Ever. It just depends on the value you can give to your hobby. I can't justify paying $5k for a watch. Maybe this is because I've only recently made my way from middle class to upper class. I can however justify paying about $1k for ~4-5 good reps. I've worn my 45mm PO for about a month now and nobody has even noticed it, let alone questioning the authenticity. I'm not the type that can keep my watches in good condition, so my resale value on a gen would be terrible. The only factor that makes me want a gen is the fact that I can't put my rep anywhere near water.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctos Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) I have no interest in impressing other people. I wore a plastic Swatch well into my 30s, and I'm wearing a $50 Alpha as I type this. I bought a gen Rolex because being a Rolex owner means something to me. Knowing the company's history, and how it operates, and what goes into their products ... I wanted a piece of that. (Harley owners are the same way.) What other people think when they see me wearing it is irrelevant. As you get into WIS-dom, you learn about the various companies and how they work. There are some you respect and some you don't. I wouldn't buy a rep of a company I respect, like Rolex or Patek. OTOH, someone like Panerai, who charges $7000 for a bone-stock 6497, and even more for BS "limited editions"? I have no problem wearing a Panerai rep. Edited March 26, 2012 by Arctos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabularasa415 Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I'm sorry... need? Will someone please explain to me the meaning of this word? I WANT I WANT I WANT.... GIMME GIMME GIMME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar1 Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 1. When do you decide to pull that trigger? 2. What watch did it for you? 3. Was it worth it? 1. Again after the rep passes the rep test, i.e. wear and enjoy for a couple of years, can't part with the rep, always enjoy having it on the wrist but still long for the gen version. 2. Omega Speedmaster Professional (Moonwatch) 3. Absolutely 1000% worth it! Those would be the critieria above, but I have a slightly different take on buying gens; it is (or at least was before the insane price increases of the past couple of years) possible to build a modest watch fund, say 2 or 3 grand(£) over time and gradually try different pre-used gens in that price range and never really lose that initial watch fund if they are bought carefully and selectively and patiently at good 2nd hand prices. Please keep in mind I am talking strictly about 2nd user (bargains) here, never walk into an AD and buy a gen that depreciates the minute you walk out the door (they all do...yes even Rolex) unless you are happy to f-up this process. Now you will never try out a Lange Datograph or even a gold calatrava in that price range but some fantastic watches can be tried and flipped if the purchase doesn't "do it" for you over time. Pre-owned sub's, explorer's, speedies, PO's, AT's Breitling SO's, IWC 3717's etc were all available sub-£3K price range (some still are) up to few years ago, these days it's more difficult and you have to be more selective. I don't see it as any different than someone who say buys 20 or 30 reps, they also had a watch fund for that. Sometimes after buying a rep it's possible to still have a craving to see what "the fuss is about" regarding a particular gen. Going into an AD and trying one on doesn't do it...it's necessary to wear it for a while to see if you really bond with it. I did this for a while and it was a valuable learning experience. It actually made me respect reps even more than before. Were some of the watches worth the money...certainly not, that's why they were flipped in price ranges from 80%-150% and the reps were bought or if already owned, improved enough so I was happy with it. The only one I really couldn't part with is the speedy pro. The sub, gen is gorgeous but an good modded noob sub (for me) is so bloody close to the gen it most definitely wasn't worth keeping at the price. I still have some gens but in the process of toning them down to just the basic keepers. Reps have become so bloody good with some watches I don't see any reason to try out any more gens except on a very rare occasion. Would I love to be handed a free calatrava, yes I most certainly would but I would never see any reason to buy one, and I would probably sell it as it would never be worn enough. The only watch (gen) that has turned my eye recently has been the new Tudor black bay, I can wait several years and I might pick one up 2nd hand...that is unless a good enough rep comes out in the meantime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 will never need the gen...unless its a LONGINES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I've started with collecting and being generally interested in watches after my dad and me have discovered my grandfather's WWII pilot's watch. The watch was and still is in a poor non working condition, because it survived a crash in 1944. My Grand dad didn't... Anyway in order to restore it I tried to read and learn as much as possible and fell in love. Initially I was collecting old or antique watches and till this day they are my true passion. A couple of years ago I stumbled upon the Oris Rectangular Titan and I had to have it, but this love affair didn't last long and I sold it to get the IWC Mark XVI Spitfire. While looking for deals on this watch I came across this site and never looked back. I think that today I'm 100% repoholic. As the matter of fact I've recently purchased a wonderful used Blancpain Fifty Fathoms Chrono for a very good price. I was really excited to have it, but after the initial excitement wore off I got bored with it. For my surprise it took me only two days - from high excitement to absolute indifference. On day 5 I was back to wearing my rep out-of-the-box "Ultimate 1:1 the best one ever was and ever will be" PO 42. Comparing the two side by side, while wondering why would I wear my 250$ "chinese crap" instead of my 8000$ new toy, I suddenly realized that on one hand it's just too perfect, it's not an old broken watch with interesting story behind it, while on the other hand it's quality was absolutely comparable to my chinese PO, so I couldn't, just couldn't, justify the price I paid for it. I returned the FF to the dealer today. After this experience I think that the right path for me is to continue collecting old / antique watches and wear my reps as daily beaters or more functional watches. This will keep me interested in watches, instead of simply purchasing them. Buying always bores me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar1 Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I liked the look of that Blancpain chrono Ade, a lot of dosh to be carrying about on the wrist though! It would be nice to see a decent fifty fathoms rep, either chrono or non-chrono. One is supposed to be 'imminent' ..but you know yourself that could mean 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I'd definitely by a rep of this watch, but you are 100% right , cougar. I hope it will be replicated, and I'll probably buy it as a rep, because the design is beautiful, especially the dial, but not 8000$ beautiful. But it doesn't worth the 8000$. It really doesn't. I got a used one, so it didn't have that new watch shine, so it felt like a very good used rep LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Since my previous reply to this thread, my thoughts have changed slightly on the subject: I now wouldn't even buy a gen for donor parts for one of my bastardization projects If I was somehow to find/inherit/receive/win a gen, fine, but othersise, I simply wouldn't ever want one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar1 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Since my previous reply to this thread, my thoughts have changed slightly on the subject: I now wouldn't even buy a gen for donor parts for one of my bastardization projects If I was somehow to find/inherit/receive/win a gen, fine, but othersise, I simply wouldn't ever want one God TJ, brewing up a bit of a hatred towards gens there If you were to be offered your favourite watch of all time at half retail, knowing you could wear it without bother for a year or two and sell it on easily getting all your money back would you not even be slightly tempted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 God TJ, brewing up a bit of a hatred towards gens there If you were to be offered your favourite watch of all time at half retail, knowing you could wear it without bother for a year or two and sell it on easily getting all your money back would you not even be slightly tempted? Not even slightly Although I wouldn't say it's my all time favorite watch, I'll use the 16610 Submariner as an example: The gen is appx £3000 at retail. Rather than paying that 4-5 years ago, I bought a 16610 from EuroFakes at about $800 (YSerial, whatever kind of rep that relates to) Knowing what I do now, I know that I well and truly got my pants pulled down over the price, even though the watch itself, I will call flawless. I expect it did have flaws, but in every comparison I made to gen images, I could never find any discrepancies... The other week, I received a budget 16610 which was about £38 shipped. Now, while it has some easily noticeable differences, such as size of hands and hour markers, construction of the diver's extension, lack of engravings, it is by all measurable visual standards, a less accurate replication than the EuroFakes Submariner, yet it is still a perfectly wearable watch. Something the average guy on the street likely would not know enough to distinguish from the real thing, something which keeps time at +9.5 seconds a day, is readable in the dark, and doesn't fog up when it gets wet, so an equally wearable time piece, but at a fraction of the cost, so even at 50% retail, I'd still not be willing to lay out that kind of money on a gen, as the budget replica ticks all the boxes Even if I had Walden Schmidt's $1.3b, given my life of financial woe and 'making do', I wouldn't be able to shake the conditioning of thinking that the gen simply wasn't worth the money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar1 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Yeah I totally agree, I really was only joking about the gen at half price stuff. I saw your previous post, gens simply aren't worth it with the rep standards that are available these days, especially even more so in the case of subs and pams and other very close reps to gen. Even though there is a whole section of rep forums that will still dissect every small detail of the best modded subs such as bks and tcs, these differences are so small, nobody in the real world would even notice, even in many cases when the differences are pointed out to them. For those reasons it's only a very rare occasion that I would want a 'closer look' at a gen these days and it would seriously have to be a particular watch where the rep is lacking, (like the speedy pro). On a side note also on behalf of those people who used to save hard to buy a gen they really liked, or even just to see what is all the fuss about a particular iconic watch; I really hope the recent insane price hikes in the past few years of the swiss watch industry come back to bite the industry in the arrse, they've gone too far now, a sub 16610 could be had used a few years ago for around £2Kish, now you'd be hard pressed to get one on the 2nd hand market in good nick, recent model, for below £4K, all thanks to ridiculous price hikes of the greedy industry! Reps ftw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Yeah I totally agree, I really was only joking about the gen at half price stuff. I saw your previous post, gens simply aren't worth it with the rep standards that are available these days, especially even more so in the case of subs and pams and other very close reps to gen. Even though there is a whole section of rep forums that will still dissect every small detail of the best modded subs such as bks and tcs, these differences are so small, nobody in the real world would even notice, even in many cases when the differences are pointed out to them. For those reasons it's only a very rare occasion that I would want a 'closer look' at a gen these days and it would seriously have to be a particular watch where the rep is lacking, (like the speedy pro). On a side note also on behalf of those people who used to save hard to buy a gen they really liked, or even just to see what is all the fuss about a particular iconic watch; I really hope the recent insane price hikes in the past few years of the swiss watch industry come back to bite the industry in the arrse, they've gone too far now, a sub 16610 could be had used a few years ago for around £2Kish, now you'd be hard pressed to get one on the 2nd hand market in good nick, recent model, for below £4K, all thanks to ridiculous price hikes of the greedy industry! Reps ftw! I can't see the gen industry ever taking a hit on business levels, all the time there are tasteless rappers prepared to pay the pricetag to feel like a Mac Daddy, but I do hope that in time, the general public will come to see through the consumerist branding and marketting lies, and realize that the 'counterfeit goods' can very often be produced on the same lines as the 'real thing'. As I mentioned in another thread, the watch on my wrist says Rolex on the dial, it doesn't flood when it gets wet, and the movement is barely out of COSC standard in out of the box condition (something I can tweak when I modify the dial as a 16800 conversion project) It is a Rolex, it was just assembled in China, rather than Switzerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calatrava Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I'm obviously the minority here, but I never intend to get a gen. Ever. It just depends on the value you can give to your hobby. I can't justify paying $5k for a watch. Maybe this is because I've only recently made my way from middle class to upper class. I can however justify paying about $1k for ~4-5 good reps. I've worn my 45mm PO for about a month now and nobody has even noticed it, let alone questioning the authenticity. I'm not the type that can keep my watches in good condition, so my resale value on a gen would be terrible. The only factor that makes me want a gen is the fact that I can't put my rep anywhere near water.. What is your definition of upper class? The conventional definition used by sociologists refers to the top 1%, and I find it hard to believe that a person with an income and net worth in the top 1% would choose to buy replicas and never buy a gen. Most of the people on the forum with a significant degree of disposable income have at least one gen watch, and satisfy their need for variety in their watch collection by rounding it off with replicas, and frankens. Surely you should be able to afford a nice gen watch that you can wear in water, and not have to worry about reselling, otherwise, what's the point of being wealthy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintin2 Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 ....a sub 16610 could be had used a few years ago for around £2Kish, now you'd be hard pressed to get one on the 2nd hand market in good nick, recent model, for below £4K... Exactly, better than money in the bank. I recently bought a new gen that increased $8000 in just a cupple of months... i think gen collecting is pretty cool its the only one of my hobbies that have made me money. I mean, if you appreciate the craftsmanship of watchmaking, and have disposable funds, collecting gens can be a pretty smart choice. Reps to me are like, i dont know, like methadone i guess, stops me from making bad choises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 I'm obviously the minority here, but I never intend to get a gen. Ever. It just depends on the value you can give to your hobby. I can't justify paying $5k for a watch. Maybe this is because I've only recently made my way from middle class to upper class. I can however justify paying about $1k for ~4-5 good reps. I've worn my 45mm PO for about a month now and nobody has even noticed it, let alone questioning the authenticity. I'm not the type that can keep my watches in good condition, so my resale value on a gen would be terrible. The only factor that makes me want a gen is the fact that I can't put my rep anywhere near water.. Why? I never had an issue with the water resistance of three Planet Oceans, and I'm sure I paid a lot less for mine than you did for yours Have you ever had it it flood, or have you simply never tried getting it wet because of the rumor that reps flood at the first sight of rain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraExtra Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 I've collecting reps for a long time. Back then I also collected watch catalogs as a means to compare the accuracy. That's when I discovered Breitling SA and loved it. I think back in 2003 or 2004, the quality of reps were not as good as today and who would ever thought that they would actually rep a big monster like the Super Avenger. So to La Swiss I went to pick up the gen blue dialed SA and still have it today. Then 3-4 years later, the rep came out followed by the Navitimer World. Tried the rep for the World but I can't get over the sunken datewheel....its the first thing I see everytime. Almost pulled the trigger on gen Legende but decided to franken them instead as its much more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar1 Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Exactly, better than money in the bank. I recently bought a new gen that increased $8000 in just a cupple of months... i think gen collecting is pretty cool its the only one of my hobbies that have made me money. I mean, if you appreciate the craftsmanship of watchmaking, and have disposable funds, collecting gens can be a pretty smart choice. Reps to me are like, i dont know, like methadone i guess, stops me from making bad choises Too true, if I'd known 5 years ago that they were going to increase as much as they have up to now I would've bought more used sought after models, Next to gold and silver the used 16610 is probably one of the better investments over the past 5 years. Of course that would've been more about the investment than the actual want of the watch. Anyway it must have been some amazing gen you purchased to gain that much value in such a short period of time, nicely done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 you simply never tried getting it wet because of the rumor that reps flood at the first sight of rain? thats it....fear of water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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