DSSD V5.9 Swiss ETA 2836-2 from Trevor Time

[rgn]

Plaifender, took your advice and went with Trevor for the DSSD. I just received pics to review prior to shipment and something caught my eye that I am a bit concerned with. Look at the sides of the links nearest the case and nearest the clasp. At first glance the spots look like rust or (hopefully) oil/grease. Any thoughts, check out the pictures?

[kamber]

Plaifender, took your advice and went with Trevor for the DSSD. I just received pics to review prior to shipment and something caught my eye that I am a bit concerned with. Look at the sides of the links nearest the case and nearest the clasp. At first glance the spots look like rust or (hopefully) oil/grease. Any thoughts, check out the pictures?

Looks like rust to me too, its supposed to be Stainless Steel (and a good grade at that!). I'd send a mail back and ask him to remove the plastic, and check its not rust, it might be just on the plastic to be fair.

p.s. the pearl looks a bit flat and the logo on the clasp doesn't look very crisp, its its good value for money though these are small things which you can live with.

[Jkay]

The bezel insert is tilted (bad gluing) the clasp lock will not close flush. there's a rusty mark on the bracelet .. pearl is flat ..

this is not a good example of this watch. I'm surprised someone who sends out QC pics would even accept it from his source. He just has to say "give me a different one, I have to take a pic of this thing for approval"

[plaifender]

My eye isn't as keen as Jkay on some of the issues he mentioned. I can't tell if the bezel is tilted or not.. but if the watch has a bad clasp or rust.. simply let trevor know that you'd like another one. That's why he sends these photos, and that's why it's important we take these QC photos seriously and scrutinize them to a "t".

Trevor's a good guy and I think there'll be no problems to get a watch in better conditions.

p.s.. the only flaw mentioned by jkay that you will have to live with is the flat pearl. that is not a QC issue and is inherent to this version

[rgn]

Thanks for all the feedback. He still doesn't see the rust so I've asked to see pictures of other pieces. He sent the following which isn't the easiest to make a decision from. Could anyone give feedback on which of the following looks like the best dssd ultimate?

[plaifender]

man... no idea.... Number 1 and 3 look like they've got nice and tight lug ends.. as well as centered datewheel.. without closeups it's hard to tell though. Pick one and make sure he gets you proper close up fotos of the watch before he sends it. Obviously it's a lot to ask to have him take close-ups of all 8 watches... I'd pick number 1 or 3... but it looks like a stab in the dark!

[jake48]

rgn -

I ordered one from Trevor just a few days before you did. I did not ask for a picture to be sent prior to shipping as I know when I say "Please provide me with one that is the same as Plaiefender's DSSD Serial number M660304 and make sure it has centered date numbers in the date window" - Trevor knows exactly what to send.

I have been collecting reps a long, long time... One thing I can tell you for sure, no amount of scrutinizing magnified pictures of a watch will ever guarantee you get a "Good one" They are what they are, cheap copies of the real thing. This is not to say I am not completely blown away by the unbelievable quality you get for the price and I am not saying it's not worth checking to make sure you are being sent what you are asking for, but trust me, you really won't know what you have until you get it into your hot little hands.

For me, I think it is more important to confirm in writing with the dealer exactly what it is you expect and then confirm with the dealer that if you are not completely satisfied, you may exchange the watch for another. Do this before you send the money. This way, when you receive the watch, you can examine it and be very specific as to what did not meet your requirements if there is a need to send it back. A lot of what makes a watch a "Good one" can not be seen in a picture. Things such as finish quality, scale / depth, definition, and colors do not translate well in pictures and are dramatically effected by focus and lighting. Sometimes pictures work in a way to make the watch look better than it really is and sometimes a picture makes a watch look worse than it really is, magnifying minute details that no one would ever see anyways.

Flaws on a Genuine can be magnified through photography as well. I have taken pictures of some of my Gens and later when I went back to look at them thought, Holy smokes! - I didn't know my watch was so beat up looking... Yet it was a watch that was hardly worn.

Bottom line, communicate in writing EXACTLY what is that you expect the dealer to send you, confirm his exchange policy and then order away. From the States to China it is only about $25.00 to EMS a watch back A good dealer should (And I have no reason to believe Trevor will not) take the watch back and exchange it. If the dealer does not send back to you what it is you asked for, move on to another dealer and count it as a lesson learned. There are plenty of credible dealers here.

For what it is worth on the pictures you were sent of the watch above, it is hard to tell if the date is centered. If you look at the different pictures the 6 moves around a little and this is most likely due to camera angles. As far as the "Rust" I would go with the guess it is just a little dirt trapped between the protective plastic wrap and the bracelet. Trevor's watches are stainless for sure and it would be next to impossible for that to be 'Rust"

Good luck. My tracking number was sent to me a few days ago and I should have the watch by the end of this week. Maybe Trevor sent me the watch from your picture... LOL

I will post up when I receive it.

Edited September 7, 2010 by jake48

[mps925]

RGN I just put in an order with trevor, and he sent me the same pictures with the rust spots. Haha. He said that he would get another one though so all is well. I went to an AD to try it on for the first time today, and it is much bigger than I anticipated; therefore, I may have a discounted DSSD for sale really soon!

[Flippster]

The steel brightness looks really good on Trevors DSSD. I have been eyeing BK version for a couple of days and decided to check the rest of the lineup. Any thought on the steel on Trevors vs. BKs?

[simonporsche]

The steel brightness looks really good on Trevors DSSD. I have been eyeing BK version for a couple of days and decided to check the rest of the lineup. Any thought on the steel on Trevors vs. BKs?

I have just placed my order with BK, I've looked and waited for months and even thought about buying a gen. This thread started positively but now has turned into a gamble and unlike BK this Trevor has no QC,he obviously doesn't know a good one from a bad one so what's the point?

[jake48]

I have just placed my order with BK, I've looked and waited for months and even thought about buying a gen. This thread started positively but now has turned into a gamble and unlike BK this Trevor has no QC,he obviously doesn't know a good one from a bad one so what's the point?

See below...

The steel brightness looks really good on Trevors DSSD. I have been eyeing BK version for a couple of days and decided to check the rest of the lineup. Any thought on the steel on Trevors vs. BKs?

Yes, you are correct Flipster, the Stainless Steel used by Trevor's watch source is much closer to the bright silver look of the Gen.

As far as "The point" goes, simon, BK is one heck of a guy and you are right, what BK says you will get, is what you will get and less risk is always a good thing. For the record, I like BK and we go way back. I have bought several watches from him and have sent him plenty of business. I knew George at Wm9 and stood up for him on this board before BK even knew him. BK and I are still friends and I currently have a watch on order wth him, but....

No matter how good BK is, he can not "Mod" the Stainless Steel on his watch to be the same color as Trevor's... To some, like me, this is important as the duller shine of some Rep stainless is a dead give away vs the Gen. You can always polish and condition Rep stainless to be close to the Gen look, but nothing beats starting with SS that is brighter and higher quality. My experience with watches made from this higher quality stainless (Most of which came from Thailand not China) is that not only do you not have to labor as much to keep the SS shiny and bright by polishing it all the time, but the higher quality SS is harder and less rssitance to scratching. Next time you are at a Rolex AD look closely at the bezel. Take specific note on how shiny the SS around the edges of the bezel is. Go back and look at your Rep. It's not even close... And if your Rep is not made of good high quality SS, no matter how hard you shine, buff or polish you will never get that bright diamond like shine on the bezel edges of your Rep.

Did you check the prices of the two watches? Trevor is about $140.00 less than BK's. For me, this makes the "Risk" of buying Trevor's watch worth it. If Trevor sends me a "Good one" (One with a centered date and correct bezel insert) the lower cost and brighter stainless makes it a better choice than BK's as all of the other important features of both watches appear to be equal. If it does not have the date wheel centered, well then, the answer is obvious... Off to BK it goes.

I have already contacted BK about doing the date wheel mod and checking the watch out. He said he would install the date wheel and return the watch for less than $100.00. That still leaves me with $40.00 + in my pocket if I go with Trevors' watch and get the date wheel fixed by BK. If I get lucky and the watch is a "Good one" I get to keep $140.00 in my pocket vs you if you buy BK's and I have better stainless steel than you do.

No doubt about it, buying Bk's watch is still a good deal and I can easily see how some, who would do not lke to fiddle around with a watch after they get it, would be less comfortable taking the chance on Trevor, but they're Reps man! If ANY Rep dealer had QC like the Gen factories then we would be paying thousands of dollars for these watches instead of hundreds like we do. Then there would be a bunch of people b!tching about the prices. I never have really have been one to understand how someone pays a couple hundred dollars for a knock off of a ten thousand dollar watch and then whines that the QC is not that good on their knock off. Kinda funny actually... LOL

Anyways, good luck. You can't go wrong with BK, but when I weigh it all out, Trevor is worth the "Risk" on this one.

Edited September 10, 2010 by jake48

[mjmurphy926]

Alright, I don't get all this talk about Trevor's steel being better or brighter than BK's (noob)steel. In Lani's comparison of Josh's "old" and "new" DSSDs which he posted in November 2009 (), one of the main differences in the watches is the use of "316F" steel on the new watch vs "316L" steel on the old watch. If you scroll through the pictures, you will see a shot of the new "316F" watch with the words "The 6" above it, that shows the rehaut serial # as M646829. This serial # is the noobfactory serial #. This is the exact same watch that BK sells!

Are all you people saying that the watch Trevor sells is made of a third different steel than the 2 steels used in Lani's comparison which are old noob vs new (and current) noob?

I believe the "Trevor's is brighter than BK's" argument is a myth, and unless someone can show me a comparison of Trevor's watch and BK's watch, which shows Trevor's is, in fact, brighter, I don't believe it.

[Flippster]

old V5steel DSSD on left new steel dssd on the right:

again.. old V5 on the left new one on the right: (notice the font is slightly bolder on the new one.. not sure if it's more accurate.. but i think it looks great!)

These are the pics that got me thinking. The difference in shine is quite obvious, and for me this is quite an important issue. I have no problem paying for BKs DSSD, but if the steel is this different between Trevors and the Noob DSSD I might as well get Trevors and send it to BK for him to do his magic. Might cost me a bit more but the result should be worth it.

Anyone have a comparison shot of BKs Noob and Trevors? That should settle it once and for all.

[Jkay]

These are the pics that got me thinking. The difference in shine is quite obvious, and for me this is quite an important issue. I have no problem paying for BKs DSSD, but if the steel is this different between Trevors and the Noob DSSD I might as well get Trevors and send it to BK for him to do his magic. Might cost me a bit more but the result should be worth it.

Anyone have a comparison shot of BKs Noob and Trevors? That should settle it once and for all.

The photos you posted are a comparison between the v5 2009 and the v5 2010 models. Is that what you intended? BK carries the Noobfactory DSSD, and Trevor sources the v5 2010 model.

In case anyone is still reading, the cartel v3/v5 Ultimate is also the Noobfactory watch.

[jake48]

Alright, I don't get all this talk about Trevor's steel being better or brighter than BK's (noob)steel. In Lani's comparison of Josh's "old" and "new" DSSDs which he posted in November 2009 (), one of the main differences in the watches is the use of "316F" steel on the new watch vs "316L" steel on the old watch. If you scroll through the pictures, you will see a shot of the new "316F" watch with the words "The 6" above it, that shows the rehaut serial # as M646829. This serial # is the noobfactory serial #. This is the exact same watch that BK sells!

Are all you people saying that the watch Trevor sells is made of a third different steel than the 2 steels used in Lani's comparison which are old noob vs new (and current) noob?

I believe the "Trevor's is brighter than BK's" argument is a myth, and unless someone can show me a comparison of Trevor's watch and BK's watch, which shows Trevor's is, in fact, brighter, I don't believe it.

mj - Truthfully, neither you nor I can say if Trevor's steel is "Brighter" for sure, but instead of guessing and proclaiming it a "Myth" why don't you believe someone who has held both versions in his hands and provided the pictures that show the difference?

Plaifender compared both and it seems pretty clear - not sure why you can't see it in the picture. The real question right now is not whether there is a brighter SS version out there or not. Nor is the question whether or not the watch Plaifender got from Trevor have brighter steel (It does). I guess you could question whether the watch in Plaifender's comparison vs Trevor's watch has the same color steel as the noob, but the real question is will the watch you get from Trevor will be the bright steel version?

Instead of guessing and proclaiming a "Myth" why don't we wait and see what happens? A few of us have ordered Trevor's DSSD. We all know what the noob SS looks like. When we get Trevor's DSSD we will know for sure. If the watches are bright like Plaifenders, I think it will be pretty obvious that Trevor is the real deal. If they are not, well I guess we can call BS!

Got my fingers crossed, that's for sure!!!!

The photos you posted are a comparison between the v5 2009 and the v5 2010 models. Is that what you intended? BK carries the Noobfactory DSSD, and Trevor sources the v5 2010 model.

In case anyone is still reading, the cartel v3/v5 Ultimate is also the Noobfactory watch.

j - When I spoke to BK he basically said forget what dealers or anyone else for that matter is calling their watch - V3, V4, V5, 2009, 2010 Super Duper V1000 - doesn't really matter. Where the watch was sourced from is what is important. And the tell regarding where the watch was sourced from is the serial number - the noob has a serial number of M646829, Trevor's is M660304 - two different sources for sure...

Edited September 10, 2010 by jake48

[Flippster]

The photos you posted are a comparison between the v5 2009 and the v5 2010 models. Is that what you intended? BK carries the Noobfactory DSSD, and Trevor sources the v5 2010 model.

In case anyone is still reading, the cartel v3/v5 Ultimate is also the Noobfactory watch.

So if I understand this correctly v5 2010 and v5 Ultimte are two different versions? If the v5 Ultimate is the Noobfactory one, is that the one that BK offers?

[Jkay]

OK ... hehe yes you are correct, and this is confusing, I know.

Eurotimez was the original dealer to sell the real v5 DeepSea

The Cartel dealers carried the v1, v2, v3 and finally the v3 ultimate DeepSea ...

When Eurotimez went out of business, the Cartel dealers changed the name of their v3 ultimate to v5 ultimate without any changes to the actual watch. It's just a marketing scheme. Rename the watch so that it now sounds like BOTH of the 2 most popular DeepSea versions. Sell more watches! Yaaay!

Within the last few months, Trevor and a couple other dealers have found the old Eurotimez source for the real v5 watch and are selling it, once again. We call it the v5 2010, because it has a few improvements over the v5 which was sold in 2009.

The cartel v3 Ultimate/v5 Ultimate and BK's Deepseas are all Noobfactory.

The Trevor v5 2010 is the real/original v5 watch and it's factory is not revealed. It used to just be named after it's original dealer, the Eurotimez v5.

[Flippster]

I just went to check BKs DSSD thread on RG and saw that he has just updated the description. He states:

"according to the factory and other dealers, the steel is 316L or 316F. My point is this the same steel as what other dealers claim, the best the factory offers"

Then I guess all is well, BKs DSSD should have the right bright/white shine to the steel. Like the right watch in the post a bit above. Or have I totally got things wrong this time?

[mjmurphy926]

mj - Truthfully, neither you nor I can say if Trevor's steel is "Brighter" for sure, but instead of guessing and proclaiming it a "Myth" why don't you believe someone who has held both versions in his hands and provided the pictures that show the difference?

Plaifender compared both and it seems pretty clear - not sure why you can't see it in the picture. The real question right now is not whether there is a brighter SS version out there or not. Nor is the question whether or not the watch Plaifender got from Trevor have brighter steel (It does). I guess you could question whether the watch in Plaifendr's comparison vs Trevor's watch has the same color steel as the noob, but the real question is will the watch you get from Trevor will be the bright steel version?

Instead of guessing and proclaiming a "Myth" why don't we wait and see what happens? A few of us have ordered Trevor's DSSD. We all know what the noob SS looks like. When we get Trevor's DSSD we will know for sure. If the watches are bright like Plaifenders, I think it will be pretty obvious that Trevor is the real deal. If they are not, well I guess we can call BS!

Got my fingers crossed, that's for sure!!!!

Jake,

I think one of us is misinterpreting information he has read on these boards (could be me, i don't know). I don't for a minute think that Plaifender is lying, but what I thought was that the comparison shots I have seen from Plaifender were not of a newest noob and Trevor's watch, but a comparison between Trevor's current offering and a different watch than the current noob. Both the watches in Plaifender's comparison shots have the Trevor dial and bezel insert. The current noob has neither. Maybe Plaifender can chime in to clarify.

Did you read Lani's review? He clearly shows there is a difference between the steel used in old noob watches and new noob watches.

I'm with Flippster. I'd like to see if anyone has both BKs and Trevors and if there are any differences in steel color.

[Jkay]

mjm you are correct. Plai's photos are comparing the v5 2009 and the v5 2010 models. Not the Noobfactory/BK/Cartel watch at all.

[jake48]

OK ... hehe yes you are correct, and this is confusing, I know.

Eurotimez was the original dealer to sell the real v5 DeepSea

The Cartel dealers carried the v1, v2, v3 and finally the v3 ultimate DeepSea ...

When Eurotimez went out of business, the Cartel dealers changed the name of their v3 ultimate to v5 ultimate without any changes to the actual watch. It's just a marketing scheme. Rename the watch so that it now sounds like BOTH of the 2 most popular DeepSea versions. Sell more watches! Yaaay!

Within the last few months, Trevor and a couple other dealers have found the old Eurotimez source for the real v5 watch and are selling it, once again. We call it the v5 2010, because it has a few improvements over the v5 which was sold in 2009.

The cartel v3 Ultimate/v5 Ultimate and BK's Deepseas are all Noobfactory.

The Trevor v5 2010 is the real/original v5 watch and it's factory is not revealed. It used to just be named after it's original dealer, the Eurotimez v5.

J - Good info. I have no idea how you keep track of all this stuff! I have been buying Reps for over twelve years now and have bought at least one watch from every major dealer and a lot of the smaller unknowns. I can say this for sure, other than BK, I don't trust any of them. I have become close enough with some of the major dealers that we have exchanged pictures of our families, kids and all - but I still don't trust a one of them. Nice guys, but they're all business men and in it to make money. For me, I have always gone with the wait and see belief.

When I get the watch I know what I have, until then, well , who really knows...

I guess I am back to hoping I get a "Good one" from Trevor LOL

Should know in a couple of days. The tracking number shows it is in Customs as we speak...

Edited September 10, 2010 by jake48

[Jkay]

I hope you get a good one, as well. The major improvement in the 2010 model is a properly recessed bezel insert. All the original v5 watches have a bezel insert which stands proud of the bezel or is exactly even with the bezel. Some also appear to have a really nice rounded pearl, unlike the flat pearl in the 2009 model. Lastly, according to Plaifender, the steel is more bright. I can't comment on that.

As for how I keep all that info straight .. the DSSD was my first replica purchase and it's dear to my heart. I don't know any cool facts or history about any other watches

[mjmurphy926]

mjm you are correct. Plai's photos are comparing the v5 2009 and the v5 2010 models. Not the Noobfactory/BK/Cartel watch at all.

J - Thanks for clarifying that!

My personal belief is that both factories once used a more common, less brilliant grade of steel, and both now use a brighter, more brilliant grade of steel.

I just had to say something because I think there was a misconception out there that noob watches were dull and Trevor's were the only ones that were bright and brilliant. I just wanted to remind everyone of the review Lanikai did of the "old" and "new" noob watches and that there was definitely a difference in steel color.

Thanks again,

Mike

[jake48]

J - Thanks for clarifying that!

My personal belief is that both factories once used a more common, less brilliant grade of steel, and both now use a brighter, more brilliant grade of steel.

I just had to say something because I think there was a misconception out there that noob watches were dull and Trevor's were the only ones that were bright and brilliant. I just wanted to remind everyone of the review Lanikai did of the "old" and "new" noob watches and that there was definitely a difference in steel color.

Thanks again,

Mike

Yeah, Lani's review is a good one HERE, but unless we know whether or not Lani's DSSD in that comparison shares the same serail number as BK's watch, it really doesn't prove anything. No one said Trevor's watch is the only watch with the bright stainless steel, but that we know for sure Plaifenders' watch (trevor's version) has bright stainless steel and we know for sure that the serial number in Plaifender's watch is different than the one in BK's watch.

When I emailed BK and asked him about the steel in his watch and if he knew if it was the brighter 316F stainless steel, in typical Bk style, he was a straight shooter. He said all he could tell me is that the steel is the same on all latest noob DSSDs. He went on to say if Trevor's is not a noob DSSD, the steel can of course be different/brighter on Trevor's watch.

So right now the only thing we know for sure is Trevor's watch, serial number M660304 has been verified to have the bright SS. We also know BK's serial number is M646829. Obviously two different watch sources.

We do not know the serial number of the watch in Lani's comparison, so we do not know if BK's watch is the same source as Lani's so we would only be guessing if we tried to say BK's watch is the same bright stainless steel as the one in Lanis comparison. Could BK's watch be as bright as Trevor's - sure it could, but still that would only be a guess, even BK himself has said as much. Could all three, BK's, Lani's and Trevor's have the same bright SS - sure they could, but that would still be guessing...

For me, I go with the strongest known and that is Trevor's watch. If I knew for sure BK's watch had the bright stainless steel like Trevor's, even for the extra $140.00, I would take BK's all day long, but we don't. Anyone saying they know for sure is just guessing at this point. And that is how "Myths" are started. I look forward to trying to figure it out and I hope BK's watch has the bright SS - guess we will have to wait and see...

Also, good news, checked USPS tracking and Trevor's watch has cleared Customs. Should have it tomorrow. I will check with some of the guys in my area and see if anyone has a BK DSSD or a DSSD that shares BK's serial number. Hope I can find one to compare

Edited September 10, 2010 by jake48

[mjmurphy926]

Yeah, Lani's review is a good one HERE, but unless we know whether or not Lani's DSSD in that comparison shares the same serail number as BK's watch, it really doesn't prove anything. No one said Trevor's watch is the only watch with the bright stainless steel, but that we know for sure Plaifenders' watch (trevor's version) has bright stainless steel and we know for sure that the serial number in Plaifender's watch is different than the one in BK's watch.

When I emailed BK and asked him about the steel in his watch and if he knew if it was the brighter 316F stainless steel, in typical Bk style, he was a straight shooter. He said all he could tell me is that the steel is the same on all latest noob DSSDs. He went on to say if Trevor's is not a noob DSSD, the steel can of course be different/brighter on Trevor's watch.

So right now the only thing we know for sure is Trevor's watch, serial number M660304 has been verified to have the bright SS. We also know BK's serial number is M646829. Obviously two different watch sources.

We do not know the serial number of the watch in Lani's comparison, so we do not know if BK's watch is the same source as Lani's so we would only be guessing if we tried to say BK's watch is the same bright stainless steel as the one in Lanis comparison. Could BK's watch be as bright as Trevor's - sure it could, but still that would only be a guess, even BK himself has said as much. Could all three, BK's, Lani's and Trevor's have the same bright SS - sure they could, but that would still be guessing...

For me, I go with the strongest known and that is Trevor's watch. If I knew for sure BK's watch had the bright stainless steel like Trevor's, even for the extra $140.00, I would take BK's all day long, but we don't. Anyone saying they know for sure is just guessing at this point. And that is how "Myths" are started. I look forward to trying to figure it out and I hope BK's watch has the bright SS - guess we will have to wait and see...

Also, good news, checked USPS tracking and Trevor's watch has cleared Customs. Should have it tomorrow. I will check with some of the guys in my area and see if anyone has a BK DSSD or a DSSD that shares BK's serial number. Hope I can find one to compare

Obviously you didn't completely read my earlier post and just picked out certain things. WE certainly do know the serial # of the watch in Lani's review! If you look at the pictures in Lani's review, as I stated earlier, there is a picture of the new, bright watch that shows the serial # M646829. That is the SAME watch that BK sells!

If you want to know how myths start, they start when people spread untrue, unresearched, opinions as fact! Things like "No matter how good BK is, he can not "Mod" the Stainless Steel on his watch to be the same color as Trevor's." Implying that the steel color of BKs watch is inferior to Trevor's. WE don't know that to be true, do WE? WE have not seen them together before, have WE? I did my research when I decided to order a DSSD. I read all the reviews and looked at all the pictures I could find and had conversations with BK talking about the different versions of steel. After seeing plaifender's comparison pictures of M660304 watches and Lani's comparison pictures of M646829 watches, I came to the conclusion that both factories produced watches with two different grades of steel, and both factories are now producing watches with the brighter steel. This doesn't mean it's the exact same steel, but both have had dull steel watches and now have bright watches. I bought the BK watch because it used the same steel as Lani's "316F" watch.

I am not trying to convince you that you should have ordered BK's watch over Trevor's. Trevor's watch appears to be a fine watch. Also, you will not see any threads posted by me degrading, in any way, Trevor's version. Again, I just want everyone to realize that Trevor's watch is not the ONLY watch using bright steel and that BKs watch is the same serial # and bright steel as is Lani's review watch! Lani got those watches from Josh. Josh sells noob. BK sells noob. Same steel. If you don't beleive me, ask BK if Josh gets better steel than he does.