Anyone else have the longest break between cartel orders ever?

[chad]

Seems like the cartel scene is totally dead now for new high quality pieces.

Not our modding scene of course but the cartels are just not putting out anything but color variations of old pieces and junk.

It's been nice to perfect some old favorites but I wonder about the future of the scene.

A few months ago I thought it was a dry spell but after a few more months of nothing it seems here to stay.

[gran]

yes it looks like it is all about the cheap stuff..pink and light blue HUBLOTS seem to be more important...pluss the usual QC issues...

Really a shame that upon getting av watch it has tto be returned to seller imediately for swap....

then when a reasonable rep arrives it has to be sent of for service anyhow, + new AR, lume (and modification) imediately...

replica life is just too damn money and time consuming....close to impossible to get a watch you want for less than 10% price of genuine

we are crazy

[ubiquitous]

It does seem as though the good quality stuff has been few and far between.

Maybe they're shopping new factories or vendors for production?

[TeeJay]

It might be that as collectors have bought the decent models, there's no demand for them anymore, so they're going towards stuff which can be sold in bulk for sales to people on vacation who aren't looking for a perfect watch, just a little memento of their holiday...

[ubiquitous]

It might be that as collectors have bought the decent models, there's no demand for them anymore, so they're going towards stuff which can be sold in bulk for sales to people on vacation who aren't looking for a perfect watch, just a little memento of their holiday...

I somehow doubt that for a couple of reasons-

1) If NEW high quality stuff is released, people generally buy (especially if it's a model that's been highly anticipated).

2) The rep forum markets are a small percentage of the overall purchasing demographic; production is not based solely on whether collectors from the forums are buying or not, but rather from an overall global demographic that covers not just Internet sales, but also retail through outlets and vendors within the physical marketplace. Travellers/vacationers are probably just as likely to buy the high quality stuff as well as the junk trinket souvenirs whilst visiting such countries, especially since prices can be negotiated from vendors/stalls in person.

As for producing the low cost novelty watches; I am sure just about any watch making factory in China can churn those things out, which is why production of such items never really declines. Conversely, finding a good, competent factory to produce the high quality stuff to meet volume requirements and QC without being difficult to work with is likely a greater challenge for our dealers.

[kbh]

Or maybe we've set our expectations ever higher and now it's too difficult to meet those expectations. So, what would have been a great rep 2 years ago is now considered hardly worth notice.

[gran]

Expectations have always been very very high

...to me it seems people accept the same old shitty QC etc now due to all the servicing, ARs, Lumes, movement swapping, modding, genuine parts buying and Frankens going on....

[TeeJay]

I somehow doubt that for a couple of reasons-

1) If NEW high quality stuff is released, people generally buy (especially if it's a model that's been highly anticipated).

That's true, such as the recent ploprof hubbub, but I would point out that that is a very niche market watch, which I would not expect to sell as well outside of collector circles, as more basic models, such as Subs, SMPs, DJs for example

2) The rep forum markets are a small percentage of the overall purchasing demographic; production is not based solely on whether collectors from the forums are buying or not, but rather from an overall global demographic that covers not just Internet sales, but also retail through outlets and vendors within the physical marketplace. Travellers/vacationers are probably just as likely to buy the high quality stuff as well as the junk trinket souvenirs whilst visiting such countries, especially since prices can be negotiated from vendors/stalls in person.

As for producing the low cost novelty watches; I am sure just about any watch making factory in China can churn those things out, which is why production of such items never really declines. Conversely, finding a good, competent factory to produce the high quality stuff to meet volume requirements and QC without being difficult to work with is likely a greater challenge for our dealers.

That's precisely what I was meaning. Sure, there are the travelers who would go to the MBK mall, for example, but also, there are the ones who go to town markets, or approached by beach vendors, who, while could possibly access the high grade stuff, might not, due to people being less inclined to 'impulse buy' an expensive watch, but quite happy to buy a cheaper one

To be fair, I have rarely had any real QC issues (other then my experiences with Silix) I often wonder if people might be having unreasonable expectations for what they're buying. I'll never forget how someone was once laughed off a Rolex forum for complaining about how the second hand did not line up perfectly each time

[ubiquitous]

To me, the DJ's, the Subs, the SD's et all... Have all been done many, many times over. What would generate some excitement (at least to me) are new models being released; something that hasn't been rehashed through various iterations and phases prior. Something that is so starkly contrasted from the usual status quo that people get excited again. I'm not just talking about the PloProf. There are many, many new offerings of visually striking designs and aesthetic year over year at the big watch shows such as Basel, SIHH and the like. I cannot imagine that the factories are short of ideas. Rather, I think the problem is inverse in that there is a shortage of factories that can produce to the same level and tolerance as prior and are reasonable to pair up with. I believe that several of the factories that were producing the amazing replications had likely become difficult to work with; that happens when success and growth takes place and the enabler (i.e. the factory) gets too big of a head. Of course, this is all conjecture on my part, but to me, that would explain why a lot of the usual offerings had taken a sort of step back over the past year or so.

Also... I don't think it's really so much of a matter of expectations not being met from the consumer end that is keeping factories from producing more; we are a small segment of the demographic, and we are also likely the most demanding and the most picky. The factories could just as easily churn out flawed and inaccurate pieces and sell what they make anyways, as the rest of the world likely doesn't care so much about the details as your typical WIS. The gen folks who are scrutinizing the placement of whether the coronet on the crown lines up is not likely to be buying reps anyways. And for us... Well, we tend to demand perfection in a product that will never be perfect by nature. But we keep trying anyways as that's what makes it fun. But again, we are a small subset of the overall bigger picture. I think the focus is too self centric by saying we are the reason why new products are not being churned out.

[TeeJay]

To me, the DJ's, the Subs, the SD's et all... Have all been done many, many times over. What would generate some excitement (at least to me) are new models being released; something that hasn't been rehashed through various iterations and phases prior. Something that is so starkly contrasted from the usual status quo that people get excited again. I'm not just talking about the PloProf. There are many, many new offerings of visually striking designs and aesthetic year over year at the big watch shows such as Basel, SIHH and the like. I cannot imagine that the factories are short of ideas. Rather, I think the problem is inverse in that there is a shortage of factories that can produce to the same level and tolerance as prior and are reasonable to pair up with. I believe that several of the factories that were producing the amazing replications had likely become difficult to work with; that happens when success and growth takes place and the enabler (i.e. the factory) gets too big of a head. Of course, this is all conjecture on my part, but to me, that would explain why a lot of the usual offerings had taken a sort of step back over the past year or so.

Also... I don't think it's really so much of a matter of expectations not being met from the consumer end that is keeping factories from producing more; we are a small segment of the demographic, and we are also likely the most demanding and the most picky. The factories could just as easily churn out flawed and inaccurate pieces and sell what they make anyways, as the rest of the world likely doesn't care so much about the details as your typical WIS. The gen folks who are scrutinizing the placement of whether the coronet on the crown lines up is not likely to be buying reps anyways. And for us... Well, we tend to demand perfection in a product that will never be perfect by nature. But we keep trying anyways as that's what makes it fun. But again, we are a small subset of the overall bigger picture. I think the focus is too self centric by saying we are the reason why new products are not being churned out.

Ahh, I think I'm seeing the point you're meaning Maybe the Cartel are just too 'small fry' for the decent factories to do business with now

I agree, the folks who are scrutinizing gens would not be buying reps, what I was meaning, is the folks who are looking for 'the best sub', and want to buy something indistinguishable from the gen. More seasoned collectors appreciate what is available, shortcomings and all, where those who just want 'the best sub', are more likely to be expecting 'perfection' from an inherently imperfect product, and then get their boxers in a bunch when said item arrives and is imperfect, thus not living up to their expectations... I guess as with all things, it's just a case of waiting to see what time brings

[ubiquitous]

Nah... I don't think the dealers are too small, per se; rather, I think finding a factory that is reasonable to work with is likely an issue. Otherwise, I'd think there would be a number of interesting watches out now, all with fairly decent build and details being produced by the same factories that had brought some of the great watches we've had prior to the market.

[deltatahoe]

i guess i'm the odd man out here -- i think we're likely to see some top notch replications coming in the next few months. i think ubi's guess re: factories becoming more difficult to work with could well be true, which is why there have been delays on a couple of the highly anticipated reps that are supposedly due to come out this year.

let's not forget two (relatively) recent top notch reps that have come out: i) the ultimate deep sea seadweller and ii) the much-neglected santos 100 (which i still have yet to see a single review on -- i've been holding out on purchasing that watch until another super rep comes out). i'm sure there are more i'm not thinking about at the moment.

how quickly do we expect them to churn out these things?!

deltatahoe

[P4GTR]

were the pain in the ass of the rep world.

granted, I am about one watch away from throwing in the towel as far as buying and returning $300+ DOA's. That scene is dead to me.

[TeeJay]

were the pain in the ass of the rep world.

granted, I am about one watch away from throwing in the towel as far as buying and returning $300+ DOA's. That scene is dead to me.

Building and Modding is where the fun's at, bro

[gran]

Building and Modding is where the fun's at, bro

Yes! but it is too damn expensive.....Hell!! just servicing, luming and ARing 5 chrono watches is tooooooooo damn bloooooooooooooooody fuuuuuuuuuuuucking expensive .....if you desire 20+ watches your ruined...it would be much much better if the replica factories did a better and more accurate jobb replicating (=less modding and less servicing etc)

long live RWG

[P4GTR]

Building and Modding is where the fun's at, bro

Hey, for sure I do enjoy some sprucing up, and tinkering, but im no watchsmith.

I can't rebuild or mod a DOA 7750 movement, or mod a bezel thats missing screws on arrival.

I also can't afford gen parts!

[StormTooper4]

I to am certainly missing the thrill buying something from the cartel, got plenty of reasons why not to these day and finding it more difficult to find a reason why to. Kind of wish is was different but got to look after the $$ a bit more these days.

[Corgi]

For some reason they are releasing a huge number of new tourbillons. But the prices are getting higher and higher while the quality goes lower and lower and service gets worse and worse.

[maxman]

I guess Im also the odd man out, or maybe I see the rep world thru rose colored glasses. First of all I have very few problems as far as QC Is concerned. Out of thriteen reps I have had one loose crown that will need to be replaced one day. There has also been a little hicup here and there, but nothing really serious to report. I absolutly love my reps. There are many Im still looking to get. The Seawolf,a few Corums, Oris CC and Titan. Also Roger Dubuis, Zenith Defy,the ss Hysek Abyss,Ebel, IWC,there Is plenty to keep me occupied. Maybe Im easy to please I only service my reps so that keeps the price down considerably. Although I am keeping my eyes open for a rep project soon. I think It will be quite some time before I get bored with reps, at least I hope so. Mike

[Watchmeister]

My own perception is that the number of new reps coming out after Chinese New Year this year was pathetic. The stuff a number of folks have been waiting for - cartel Ploprof, Davidsen 24A, etc. have still not come out. They have put out a number of reps of higher end pieces which are not accurate enough for our market but probably sell well to the masses.

[thogaa]

I was ready to spend a few $ on the new exciting reps that were supposed to be released this spring.

And then nothing happened. Still I've been quite busy shipping reps back for repair because nearly every single one has had some kind of defect.