mellons Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 i thought anyone who has not seen this post over on w-c should have a look it concerns questionable trade practices concerning VDB creations http://www.wrist-check.com/showthread.php?9880-VDB-4-Loser there is also a linked thread over on rg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Having just experienced some very poor practices myself I am not surprised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 im not sorry for the buyers - come on 2k+ for glued together masterpieces with rusty movments ? 2k+$$ for an rep ? i actually did read the whole rant over WC - most of the members are long enough in the forums they should have known better .... cheers, Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiman12 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 What's the worst part Frank...I remember on another forum, some members were flaunting their VDB creations as the greatest thing since sliced bread. These are the same guys, on WC, slamming VDB now...don't get that part... BUT...sometimes a little glue goes a long way on certain frustrating projects! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 What's the worst part Frank...I remember on another forum, some members were flaunting their VDB creations as the greatest thing since sliced bread. These are the same guys, on WC, slamming VDB now...don't get that part... BUT...sometimes a little glue goes a long way on certain frustrating projects! +1 but im very thankfull that there are members here who really pushed the vintage reps really forward for fair prices (NW,OKA,T, Southy and so ) cheers, Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capice Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 apart from price and other issuess, I still love the looks of them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbiz Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I think it's the outright lying, deception, selling rep parts as gen, oh and over all scamming and thievery that has caused the VDB clan to deserve and receive utter exile! But they knew it would come to this at some point... all part of the business model I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 im not sorry for the buyers - come on 2k+ for glued together masterpieces with rusty movments ? 2k+$ for an rep ? i actually did read the whole rant over WC - most of the members are long enough in the forums they should have known better ... Come on Frank thats a bit strong mate !! Just because a buyer is willing to pay more for a rep doesnt mean he deserves to get stitched up... It dont matter whether you pay a $100 or a $1000 for something... getting ripped off is something we all hate to see no matter who it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Come on Frank thats a bit strong mate !! Just because a buyer is willing to pay more for a rep doesnt mean he deserves to get stitched up... It dont matter whether you pay a $100 or a $1000 for something... getting ripped off is something we all hate to see no matter who it is... maybe but with vintage Panerai the value is the actual history of the watch - with VDB you get some glued together DSN parts out of a bicycle shop in a little town thats only famous for school-shootings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 maybe but with vintage Panerai the value is the actual history of the watch - with VDB you get some glued together DSN parts out of a bicycle shop in a little town thats only famous for school-shootings Dont disagree on what you get both in terms of product or service .... As for value to an extent I can agree but the value in real terms is the work done is reproducing the better parts that you see from Oaky or Gordon etc for example and the work put into putting them together in a proper way.. VDBs value was more recently on his reputation IMHO rather than his product.. As with a lot of brands a reputation can easily be traded upon and used to take advantage of either the trusting or the lesser experienced....its a short term strategy that ends up crashing and burning and once lost is never regained.... and all that hard work put into building it up is wasted... Its a short sighted, cynical and greedy approach to your customers and your product.. People were drawn in by that reputation as we all can be in all walks of life... I dont doubt VDBs ability just his practices... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Dont disagree on what you get both in terms of product or service .... As for value to an extent I can agree but the value in real terms is the work done is reproducing the better parts that you see from Oaky or Gordon etc for example and the work put into putting them together in a proper way.. VDBs value was more recently on his reputation IMHO rather than his product.. As with a lot of brands a reputation can easily be traded upon and used to take advantage of either the trusting or the lesser experienced....its a short term strategy that ends up crashing and burning and once lost is never regained.... and all that hard work put into building it up is wasted... Its a short sighted, cynical and greedy approach to your customers and your product.. People were drawn in by that reputation as we all can be in all walks of life... I dont doubt VDBs ability just his practices... now a serious answer why nobody mentioned the problems before ? took years till this got public - im sure somebody took a VDB watch apart before ? i bought a Sub replica a few years ago that was glued together - the whole bezel on the case - i lost just a few hundet bucks - but since then i hate everything with glue involved in watches i went public and it was nasty - it was from a well known modder at this time. and i doubt VDBs abilitys - sorry - they look not better than creations from other modders for a 1/10 of the price - + as it looks now they are shitty assembled without propper watchmaking skills - do you still remember the pieces from Watchmaster/Kenzo ? not 1:1 but amazing creations at that time with his own cases - sadly he makes now his own watches ... and why has to be there an super expensive "historical" correct movement an this watches anyway ? what to expect from this old worn out movements where finding parts is a pain in the ass ? but thats not a VDB problem cheers, Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 why nobody mentioned the problems before ? took years till this got public - im sure somebody took a VDB watch apart before ? You have been on the forums long enough to know the answer to this question. I have seen many of these, for years...no surprise... The turning point for me the one where the Rolex 616 was completely rusted solid, and was sold knowing it was rusted. Bad workmanship is one thing, selling a RUSTED SEIZED solid movement in a watch is something else... No one wants to know the truth, you need a flame proof suit if you dare speak up. This is not an isolated incident, there are others making vintage PAM's who's workmanship is as bad or worse... i went public and it was nasty - it was from a well known modder at this time. Exactly. I did the same and was flamed like you were. It's sad, but that's the way it is...now I keep my mouth shut and watch.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 and i doubt VDBs abilitys - sorry - they look not better than creations from other modders for a 1/10 of the price - + as it looks now they are shitty assembled without propper watchmaking skills - I think you have misunderstood that comment mate...I meant VDB obviously has a skill or ability... its just not as good as his reputation and the quality is even lower than that. So I dont doubt his ability I do doubt his product and its value..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebzen02 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) For a more entertaining read please visit RWG.. Not as dull.. VDB Goes to Sh!t Uncensored as usual? Edited January 22, 2011 by ebzen02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 damn 36pages, can anyone make it into one reply here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 damn 36pages, can anyone make it into one reply here Basically due to a number of members raising isues with VDB a number of other members have come forward raising their own experiences. Points raised include Mis selling rep parts as gen Poor Quality - glued CGs, rusted movements, damaged parts etc Selling parts as specially made but being from standard suppliers like DSN etc Claiming to make and then selling at inflated prices 1:1 cases when they are Sillix cases Taking advantage of members skills and trading their own inferior parts for quality hand made dials, hands etc Over pricing Blaming every one but them selves Misleading and controlling certain forums and Vintage sections in several forums and using them to further their own product and belittling other vintage makers or removing their threads or posts if it doesnt suit their own purposes etc etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 The problem is that modding on these forums mean big money, if you can hold it together for a while you are laughing all the way to the bank. I am not referring to VDB in the above statement (I have not read a word of the linked threads) but modders in general. The Admin team of this board have always been very wary of anyone who wants to mod as we have seen the pattern....start modding, take on to much work, take the money and run....happen far too many times. This is why we love Ziggy so much, the man never goes in over his head and he actually takes the time to shows us what he does. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblueprince Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 You have been on the forums long enough to know the answer to this question. I have seen many of these, for years...no surprise... The turning point for me the one where the Rolex 616 was completely rusted solid, and was sold knowing it was rusted. Bad workmanship is one thing, selling a RUSTED SEIZED solid movement in a watch is something else... No one wants to know the truth, you need a flame proof suit if you dare speak up. This is not an isolated incident, there are others making vintage PAM's who's workmanship is as bad or worse... Exactly. I did the same and was flamed like you were. It's sad, but that's the way it is...now I keep my mouth shut and watch.. Yep, that's why i kept my mouth shut at the time and just warned others directly by PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avensis Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Wow. Flames much? Looks like the entire vintage section on RG became hell. Outrageous, yes. But why so much controversy among members that are in no ways responsible for this scam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcollector Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Wow. Flames much? Looks like the entire vintage section on RG became hell. Outrageous, yes. But why so much controversy among members that are in no ways responsible for this scam? I agree. The whole VDB shady practices issue was raised by former customers. Instead of keeping the discussion around the questionable practices of a modder that produces and misrepresents overpriced low quality watches some folks decided to bring personal views on a number of upstanding folks to light. It's sad that we can't have a mature discussion around serious matters without people trying to stir the pot with personal vendettas. Forget about the A1 sauce, the rusty builds, etc. There are some serious accusations of VDB selling low quality rep parts as genuine vintage parts. That's the same kind of stealing that tarnished the reputation of Sylar/Julio at RG and thankfully and rightfully the RG staff removed him for such transgressions. This discussion should be around what to do with a modder that engages in this kind of behavior and not baseless accusations and insinuations that serve no real purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capice Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 now a serious answer why nobody mentioned the problems before ? took years till this got public - im sure somebody took a VDB watch apart before ? i bought a Sub replica a few years ago that was glued together - the whole bezel on the case - i lost just a few hundet bucks - but since then i hate everything with glue involved in watches i went public and it was nasty - it was from a well known modder at this time. and i doubt VDBs abilitys - sorry - they look not better than creations from other modders for a 1/10 of the price - + as it looks now they are shitty assembled without propper watchmaking skills - do you still remember the pieces from Watchmaster/Kenzo ? not 1:1 but amazing creations at that time with his own cases - sadly he makes now his own watches ... and why has to be there an super expensive "historical" correct movement an this watches anyway ? what to expect from this old worn out movements where finding parts is a pain in the ass ? but thats not a VDB problem cheers, Frank Was wondering the same thing Frank, why didn't people complain before...? Really a bit confused on this sage.....on one hand admiration for the time invested to source parts,age dial and hands ect, on the other hand appalled by statements as fake sold for gen. All vintagelovers spoke highly about his skills...when you buy a + $1000 watch, I am sure a lot want to open the watch and see the mvt. No one did and called out? I have never read that he claimed to be a watchsmith, he only assembled parts. He asked prices and people were willing to pay, simple demand and supply....but you should get what was advertised. Part of being on the boards to prevent from being scammed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 hum, i bought a great vintage from VDB whit a great 616 rolex mov that was controlled by Watchsmith that has 25yrs experience working on rolex watches. I thought vdb made his own cases and stuff, seemed like it when you saw his threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightight Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 I agree. The whole VDB shady practices issue was raised by former customers. Instead of keeping the discussion around the questionable practices of a modder that produces and misrepresents overpriced low quality watches some folks decided to bring personal views on a number of upstanding folks to light. It's sad that we can't have a mature discussion around serious matters without people trying to stir the pot with personal vendettas. Forget about the A1 sauce, the rusty builds, etc. There are some serious accusations of VDB selling low quality rep parts as genuine vintage parts. That's the same kind of stealing that tarnished the reputation of Sylar/Julio at RG and thankfully and rightfully the RG staff removed him for such transgressions. This discussion should be around what to do with a modder that engages in this kind of behavior and not baseless accusations and insinuations that serve no real purpose. The discussion should be about whatever people want it to be. And it will be. It is also about people who almost destroyed the RG Vintage Section over their blind adherence to VDB, and in doing so upset a lot of people and caused a good deal of bitterness, now getting their just deserts. Childish perhaps, but it's only human to get some pleasure from this. The A1 sauce and the rusty builds, etc, are just as important as the fake parts sold as gen and 1:1 cases which are nowhere near, they are all part of the con and all totally unacceptable. Also just as important is the case of those who, knowing that VDB were not what they were reputed to be, sold on their VDB watches to other members without disclosing the flaws and before making public their concerns. This is not what any of the forums are or should be about.. This of course is not everyone who sold a VDB, and I believe that one or two sold them on at a big loss knowing the quality was not acceptable, and good on them for being honest at their cost.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcollector Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Also just as important is the case of those who, knowing that VDB were not what they were reputed to be, sold on their VDB watches to other members without disclosing the flaws and before making public their concerns. This is not what any of the forums are or should be about.. This of course is not everyone who sold a VDB, and I believe that one or two sold them on at a big loss knowing the quality was not acceptable, and good on them for being honest at their cost.. and I'm sure you have facts (you know who sold what to whom in what condition, sales details, what the seller knew at the time of the sale, what was disclosed, what was not disclosed, etc.) to back up everything you are insinuating here and it's not just some inflammatory remark based on what you think/hope has happened because you have some unresolved issues with someone. The RG thing was before my time however reading from the outside a lot of the accusations being thrown around appear to be more related to bruised egos than hard facts. I find it amusing that we have a scammer (VDB) that sold rep parts as gen and a lot of people blame the buyers just because they don't like them. Yes, I'd say it's childish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightight Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 and I'm sure you have facts (you know who sold what to whom in what condition, sales details, what the seller knew at the time of the sale, what was disclosed, what was not disclosed, etc.) to back up everything you are insinuating here and it's not just some inflammatory remark based on what you think/hope has happened because you have some unresolved issues with someone. The RG thing was before my time however reading from the outside a lot of the accusations being thrown around appear to be more related to bruised egos than hard facts. I find it amusing that we have a scammer (VDB) that sold rep parts as gen and a lot of people blame the buyers just because they don't like them. Yes, I'd say it's childish. No I don't have facts and figures, but I do know there was a VDB watch raffled off just before this whole thing blew up. I have no unresolved issues but I'm, to use your phrase, "reading from the outside" as are many others and it appears VDB watches changed hands after the true facts were known to the sellers. If this is not the case, it would be reasonable for them to say so rather than leaving others to speculate. It appears the truth about VDB has been known for a long time. The RG Vintage thing was nothing to do with bruised egos, more to do with a takeover attempt by some people. Fortunately the membership wouldn't stand for it and the mods put a stop to it, subsequently leading to the formation of W-C. I'm sure if you had been there at the time, you'd have taken a different view. VDB were made moderators of the Vintage Forum which they then used as their own private Sales Forum, other modders were belittled and criticised by them and their supporters and it was made clear that the only pictures suitable for the Vintage Forum were those of VDB creations as nothing else was 'true' vintage. Joe expressed this conceit to me just the other day stating that "throwing acid on a dial or leaving underwater for a while or throwing a case and a crystal in a bag with rocks doesnt make it vintage." whereas clearly A1 Sauce and rusty movements do make it vintage...................... Nobody is blaming the buyers of anything other than being naive in the extreme and believing what they were told. Somebody saying something is a gen part doesn't make it so. Nor is anyone downplaying the fact that a huge scam has taken place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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