1665 water test

[takumee]

Hi all,

I just got a mbk 1665 from reg.

I like everything about the watch except that it cannot even stand washing under the tap.

This happens even before I change to a gen T39.

The same happens even with the stock crystal.

I have asked my watch smith to check all seals and gasket and even lubricates them to ensure all is well.

I also understand the HE valve is not a true valve in the sense that is does not drilled through the case.

As such,what could have a cause a leak that whenever I'm inside an air conditioned place the fogging effect will start to surface?

I hope some experts can point to me as I'm quite frustrated after spending a bomb on a gen t39 which is quite a must to bring out the watch and this has to happen.

Edited July 14, 2011 by takumee

[flex]

In much the same way as I can't tell you how long a piece of string is without seeing it, I can't tell you what was the problem of your 1665. There could be many problems ranging from missing a case back seal or the stem seal to a crystal gasket. Once the problems are identified and solved (i.e. tested by a watchmaker), the MBK 1665 are bulletproof. the MBK built are very solid. Personally I have taken a MBK 1665 to my local beach for three years of surfing without any issue. Mind you that all my watch are serviced every 2.5 to 3 years interval.

[Rolexaddict]

You should have a total of 4 gasquets : One flat gasquet inside the triplock crown (if its a 7mm triplock rep), one ring inside the tube and one ring outside the tube. Then the case ring allowing to seal the case with the case back.

If these 4 gasquets are properly waxed, the problem comes not from there, but only from the plexi, this is 99,99% sure. To remove to check the flat ring inside the crown, use a sewing needle

Even if its a gen dome, your watch has a plexi/steel contact problem, as even gen 5512, 13 and 1665 had a waterproof problem with domes. That's why last batches of subs and SD with plexies had cases with a groove around the plexi wall contening an o-ring. And moreover Rolex stopped with domes to put a different plexi design less domed.

And talking about waterproofing, gen parts on a rep doesn't mean a more reliable watch

A light coat of epoxy at the base of the dome will allow to dive. I have 100usd reps which are descended to more than 80m in diving

Edited July 14, 2011 by Rolexaddict

[highoeyazmuhudee]

i can tell you if you buy complete watches from MBK your wasting your money as they dont even install ALL the gaskets... look under the retaining ring, bet ya its missing a rubber gasket, they come stock this way, i would never sell a 'complete' watch this way

THIS is how they come.

now you have to pay someone to fix it. LOOK at that nice little reservoir which will hold water and wick it up under the crystal once the pressure has changed. this is also not a standard caseback size gasket, its slightly smaller. i forget the exact part number.

also check your movement. theyve been to know to slip this nasty thing in there. if you have one of these consider it a repair expense.

[takumee]

Now the question is....

Who in the forum can I ask to test or even make my water resistant?

Thanks for all inputs.

[panerai153]

Now the question is....

Who in the forum can I ask to test or even make my water resistant?

Thanks for all inputs.

Not sure who you might ask. Two of the most prominent watchmakers on the forum will not test for water resistance. I would expect that one reason is the liability. If say your watch passes a 3 atmosphere pressure test, and you decide to take it diving to 100 feet and it fails, You are going to blame the tester. also it may be water resistant now, but after wearing it every day for a year, you take it underwater and it floods, it may be that something has happened to a seal or gasket and it's now compromised. Another factor, I would suspect every old vntage genuine superdome. Go over to the Vintage Rolex forum and read what some of those guys have experienced with vintage plexies. As plexiglass ages, it gets more brittle and develops hairline cracks. Just the physical act of pressing the crystal in could open up enough cracks to make it leak. I have a vintage T-39 on my 1665, and I keep it out of water, although it has passed a 3 ATM pressure test.

[Nanuq]

Well said, panerai153. I just had the same thing happen with my gen 1665, the Rolex AD inspected all pieces (including the NOS Superdome T39) under a loupe and they were correct, but it still failed the pressure test.

As for the watch in question, check where the tube screws into the case. I've gone to maniacal lengths to waterproof watches and found they were leaking at the case/tube juncture, resulting in fogged crystals.

You can fix this by making sure the case is relieved to accept the taper of the tube, then using thread sealant (LocTite) when you put the tube in. Seat it firmly and I bet that will do it.

[Rolexaddict]

Not sure who you might ask. Two of the most prominent watchmakers on the forum will not test for water resistance. I would expect that one reason is the liability. If say your watch passes a 3 atmosphere pressure test, and you decide to take it diving to 100 feet and it fails, You are going to blame the tester. also it may be water resistant now, but after wearing it every day for a year, you take it underwater and it floods, it may be that something has happened to a seal or gasket and it's now compromised. Another factor, I would suspect every old vntage genuine superdome. Go over to the Vintage Rolex forum and read what some of those guys have experienced with vintage plexies. As plexiglass ages, it gets more brittle and develops hairline cracks. Just the physical act of pressing the crystal in could open up enough cracks to make it leak. I have a vintage T-39 on my 1665, and I keep it out of water, although it has passed a 3 ATM pressure test.

Well said, panerai153. I just had the same thing happen with my gen 1665, the Rolex AD inspected all pieces (including the NOS Superdome T39) under a loupe and they were correct, but it still failed the pressure test.

As for the watch in question, check where the tube screws into the case. I've gone to maniacal lengths to waterproof watches and found they were leaking at the case/tube juncture, resulting in fogged crystals.

You can fix this by making sure the case is relieved to accept the taper of the tube, then using thread sealant (LocTite) when you put the tube in. Seat it firmly and I bet that will do it.

.............. ......................

well,

even rep tubes are sealed with Chinese Loctite, or Chinese epoxy, the problem is not the tube, nor case back or crown, the problem is the plexi assembly,

As I said, use glue for the plexi, and stop thinking gen parts are better than Chinese stuff, gen + rep is not the best compromise, and use intelligence to understand what are the rules to put a watch in water,

read and learn, there are lot of books about water pressure and basic physic,

just my 2 cents...

[Nanuq]

Yes, good advice. But I bought a 9411 Snowflake made with a Phong case, gen T19 crystal, new Triplock crown and tube, and all new seals ... and it leaked.

When I countersunk the case so the tube's taper fit correctly, problem solved.

It's a potential leak that most people overlook. I know I did.

EDIT: one little trick I've tried is to smear the outside of the rehaut lip and the bottom inside of the crystal with a little silicon grease before assembly. Then smear a little on the inside of the retaining ring, and when you press it on you get a smooth installation. You can feel how tight it's squeezing on there. It's like using anti-seize thread compound on a car's lug nuts to get accurate torque readings.

[Rolexaddict]

I am quite sure - according what I experienced- the problem comes almost always from the cristal/plexi assembly. At the moment I started to use epoxy to create a joint and "melt" steel and plastic, my watches were 100% waterproof.

Even for tubes I use epoxy to fix it, instead of loctite, and thick waterproof wax for gaskets

Edited July 14, 2011 by Rolexaddict

[Ronin]

I am quite sure - according what I experienced- the problem comes almost always from the cristal/plexi assembly. At the moment I started to use epoxy to create a joint and "melt" steel and plastic, my watches were 100% waterproof.

Even for tubes I use epoxy to fix it, instead of loctite, and thick waterproof wax for gaskets

While a good brute force solution, this makes future replacement of parts difficult.

I have not had any issues with WR using Loctite #290. #290 also allows for easy removal with the heat from a soldering iron.

I use Nanuq's added Silcone grease on the top side as well with great success.

I have managed to build 4 water tight frankens using nothing more than good/correct gaskets for the respective gen/rep parts, Loctite #290, and Silicon Grease.

On a side note a 3 ATM passed watch is technically NOT SWIM worthy. There is a difference between "PRESSURE" and "FLUID / Movement thru Water"

[FxrAndy]

it is possible though with just a clarks crystal, a gen tube and gaskets

[Ephry73]

While a good brute force solution, this makes future replacement of parts difficult.

I have not had any issues with WR using Loctite #290. #290 also allows for easy removal with the heat from a soldering iron.

I use Nanuq's added Silcone grease on the top side as well with great success.

I have managed to build 4 water tight frankens using nothing more than good/correct gaskets for the respective gen/rep parts, Loctite #290, and Silicon Grease.

On a side note a 3 ATM passed watch is technically NOT SWIM worthy. There is a difference between "PRESSURE" and "FLUID / Movement thru Water"

Awesome image Ronin. Common sense is always a good rule of thumb as well. Don't use your rep for surfing either.

E

[takumee]

I'm in the oil and gas trade.sometimes just need to wash under the tap.

Dont intend to use it for swim.

Seems PB is the man to go for more mods...

[Ephry73]

I have a 1665 I bought from Trevor a month ago. I took the whole thing apart after receiving it, just to make sure that everything was up to part. Love the 2836-2 movement in it. The HEV is definitely just like the gen one(from the information I have seen, read and pictures on the web) The o-ring was dry, so I lubed it and ensured that the spring/tensioner was bent correctly and tight. The crystal was just pressure fitted and had no gasket or o-ring. I GS glued it to the case, then ensured that the locking ring fit tight. The crown tubes were greased properly, as well as the case-back. Thus far, I can shower with it, wash the car, brush it after re-polishing the case and no issues with water seepage. I froze the watch in a 24oz beer flute filled with water. No damage.

I won't take it surfing, but I would love to spearfish with it before summer ends to see how it holds. I have not changed the crystal on it yet, as this one seems very close to the gen article and looks good.

Just my input and observation.

E

[Rolexaddict]

Epoxy molecular structure and latice is better than Loctite which was developped initially to block screws and not for waterproofing ops

Epoxy will not harm or ruin a watch. No need a torch to disassemble a tube which has a light coat of epoxy on threads, and for the plexi, anyway, even without glue, when you remove it need to be replaced with a new, and it cost 10usd...

About waterproofing :

The 3 parameters are static pressure, dynamic pressure and the weight of water. And avoid hot water and showers even with a gen Rolex

[modelizer]

FxrAndy modded my old MBW 1665 with gen 39 crystal, gen crown, aftermarket tube and all new seals/ gaskets and it's been my swimming companion this summer. So it's definitely possible!

However, I wouldn't be extremely surprised if the quality of our beloved rep cases differs quite a bit, even between production runs by the same maker/ factory..

[donerix]

Well I guess I got lucky. I bought my GWSD at MBK last year. I had brought a gen 39 replacement crystal with me (mainly to verify if the newer MBWs accept gen parts) and had it installed by a watch repair shop right outside MBW (up by the Sky Train) which the nice guy from Nah Piek showed to me.

I took it in the water one hour later and since then never had a problem.

One hour after purchase in the hotel pool:

At home after some mods:

[Nanuq]

Another happy customer here, I've had mine since 1997 and put on a gen Superdome 39 about 10 years ago. Since then I've bashed it hard enough to give it a visible crack at the 12:30 position, and still it's never leaked even down to ~50' depth. It's been in 1,000 hot tubs, it's been frozen down to -50F innumerable times, it's been stepped on, it went through the clothes washer a few times, it's been through dozens of hockey practice sessions (an hour of slapshots) and I play with the kids by throwing it out into the water and let them race to get it and bring it back. No problems, no leaks, everyone's happy. I'm not SURE it's not a Timex.

Rolexaddict, I'm not sure where you get your crystals but I'm not seeing many $10 tropic 39s out there. So I reuse mine. Still no leaks on the MBW.

[Rolexaddict]

Rolexaddict, I'm not sure where you get your crystals but I'm not seeing many $10 tropic 39s out there. So I reuse mine. Still no leaks on the MBW.

Here, they have a lot, but I admit, an original dome design is at least 63usd from Clark

http://www.ofrei.com/page419.html

Also remember, Rolex stopped with the super dome as they had a lot of problems... my big brother was a marketing manager for Comex between 1969 and 1976, so we had a few 5514 at home

all sold to buy an aircraft, more fun than a watch.

I insist, could be wrong, but I don't understand -talking waterproofing- this way consisting to put gen parts on a rep, this is an expensive heresy

Edited July 15, 2011 by Rolexaddict

[Nanuq]

Heresy yes, but the visual results when using gen can be remarkable.

Here is a comparison of three tropic-39s: service replacement, gen Superdome and domed aftermarket. Compare the clarity, then compare the poor refractions from the aftermarket crystal on the right. When mounted on a watch the aftermarket presents a "ringed" appearance around its perimeter.

[Rolexaddict]

o.k doc, your pics comparison is talking,

when I have time I will post what I get with a basic 10usd from OFrei re-shaped and polished, the spherical design and his unique effect,

the right design can be checked under water, the dial and markers should appear without distorsion or aberrations

[Ronin]

Epoxy molecular structure and latice is better than Loctite which was developped initially to block screws and not for waterproofing ops

Epoxy will not harm or ruin a watch. No need a torch to disassemble a tube which has a light coat of epoxy on threads, and for the plexi, anyway, even without glue, when you remove it need to be replaced with a new, and it cost 10usd...

No offense, but this is pretty subjective, and depends on the wide array Epoxy's and differing Loctite's available. #290 was originally marketed as a "Adhesive/Sealant (wicking) for locking and sealing fasteners, welds and porosities.". Straight from the OLD bottle I have in front of me.

On the flip side if I used an Epoxy like JB Weld on a tube, good luck removing it without tearing out the case threads to the point where they could not be chased.

There is no right answer, but I would err on the side of maintaining serviceability.

On the 1665 topic, short of a Double Red, I LOVE THE "SERVICE T-39" This watch is watertight.

[Ephry73]

Tahrs is a very nice watch and I too love the t39 plexi. How tight was the fit?

E

[Ronin]

Tahrs is a very nice watch and I too love the t39 plexi. How tight was the fit?

E

Tighter than my old Prom Date.

...seriously though, it was tight and the retaining ring needed pressed.