6542 Franken Project Question

[donerix]

I am looking for a movement for my gen 6542 case:

And while I know that Rolex used modified 1030 movements and then 1035, 1065 and 1066 I am not clear about the date and GMT function.

Will I be able to use a 1030 that was used in a no date no GMT version by adding these components?

It does look pretty straight forward to my untrained eye

Here a quick photo comparison of a plain 1030:

and one with GMT function:

How is the availability of these parts?

Gentlemen your help is really appreciated.

[coolfire]

No one would know this better than freddy.

Would love to enjoy seeing your finished franken, E.

Sent from my SGS II

[Librarian]

There's a 1065 on eBay just now in Paris in perfect condition I think. If you're going Frankenstein you may as well bankrupt yourself in the process ...

[donerix]

There's a 1065 on eBay just now in Paris in perfect condition I think. If you're going Frankenstein you may as well bankrupt yourself in the process ...

Just saw it. Thanks for the tip. It's about what I figured it will cost and I think it is worth trying to get the best result

[alligoat]

Freddy is your man on telling you about a mod/build, but I'd certainly snap up a complete movement if you can. Finding parts for the 50 year old 1030/1060 movts is about impossible.

There was a 1035 GMT movt on VRM last year for $1500- a bargain like that only comes around once in a lifetime.

[donerix]

LOL - just found a three year old thread from Freddy asking pretty much the same question:

http://www.rwgforum.com/topic/84877-can-you-convert-a-1030-calibre-to-1035-gmt/

Shows you how far ahead of the game he is....

I am actually considering going straight for the 1065 to not have to deal with the conversion.

By taking the risk of somebody else buying it I am going to ask if some of the experts here (Freddy please ) could give me an opinion on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Vintage-Rolex-mouvement-1065-For-6541-6542-5508-6538-/180704110265?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item2a12cde6b9#ht_500wt_1156

[coolfire]

LOL - just found a three year old thread from Freddy asking pretty much the same question:

http://www.rwgforum....re-to-1035-gmt/

Shows you how far ahead of the game he is....

I am actually considering going straight for the 1065 to not have to deal with the conversion.

By taking the risk of somebody else buying it I am going to ask if some of the experts here (Freddy please ) could give me an opinion on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.fr/V...9#ht_500wt_1156

Freddy certainly is way ahead of the game.

And it would certainly be better to get the 1065 straight, imho. Good luck buddy.

[alligoat]

Donerix, you need to jump on that 1065- at $1200 BIN, you can't go wrong. Even though the guy says it's perfect, you'll still need to factor in $200-300 for a service. So you're still at $1500, a bargain, IMO! Plus you already have the case. You could end up with a great original franken for a great price.

[panerai153]

Donerix, you need to jump on that 1065- at $1200 BIN, you can't go wrong. Even though the guy says it's perfect, you'll still need to factor in $200-300 for a service. So you're still at $1500, a bargain, IMO! Plus you already have the case. You could end up with a great original franken for a great price.

I agree, these are scarce, and even with a service that's a good price.

[Nanuq]

......and we have access to a watchsmith that's intimately familiar with 1030/1035/1060/1065 movements too, eh?

He brought mine back from the brink... highest possible recommendations!

[redwatch]

Don't think you would lose out on a bargain like that to be honest! That is a pretty decent price and not a bad investment. It will most likely only go up in price in the next 5 years anyways. I say go for it!

[donerix]

You snooze you loose. It's gone, damn

I hesitated too long.

It still needed the GMT module though, the search continues.

I still hope Freddy stops by and gives me his opinion

[alligoat]

It still needed the GMT module though, the search continues.

Interesting, I thought it had the gmt module. Especially based on your second picture.

[donerix]

That picture was from another movement for sale (just for comparison) which sold for over $2K.

But I guess it will be easier to find a 1065 and then try to get the GMT module, at least it comes with the date wheel.

MIght take a bit longer than I was hoping

[freddy333]

A few tidbits from my gmt travels that may help -

You cannot convert a 1030 to a GMT, because its pillar lacks the channeling & screw holes to mount the date & gmt modules. Instead, pay whatever you have to pay for a decent, working 1036 or 1066 (these are 1030s with the date module & either is correct for a 6542 - the 1036 was used initially & the 1066 at the end of production). When I say working, I mean make sure the movement keeps reasonable time & the stem winds freely & sets time without *any* binding. This is VERY important as problems with any function on these movements are likely to require (expensive/rare) parts to rectify. I should add that most Rolex watchmakers will refuse to work on the gmt due to the rarity/expense of parts & the fact that the pros cannot spend the time required to source them.

Your biggest hurdle (assuming you are starting from a working 1036 or 1066 base), by far, will be locating the gmt components, especially, the key 24-hour (gmt) wheel & calendar ring (the links below discuss this). Unlike nearly all other components inside Rolex watches, these parts are unique (to the 6542) & were never used in any other watches. Because of this, they were made in limited numbers & only for a brief period of time. Add in the severe demand for these parts from an international cadre of well-heeled collectors & you have a nightmare scenario when it comes to availability.

If you have not already, you should read (in no particular order) this, this & this.

[donerix]

Thanks Freddy. I knew it was worth waiting to hear what you had to say

I was offered a working 1065 GMT for $2,500 today.

I guess I have to sleep over it.

Eric

[freddy333]

Eric - You can always just buy a 50s DJ, OP or some other model that has a 1036 & cannibalize the watch for its motor. That way, you get a few re-sellable parts in the deal to help mitigate your costs. Well, at least a tiny bit of your costs.

But before you commit to buying anything, be aware that the remaining parts required for the conversion - if you can find them - could easily cost the same (or more) again. So think seriously as to whether you are prepared to spend $5k just to power your '42. If you do, you should only accept a gen (or repainted gen) dial, as I did with my Phase II '42. That way, if/when you decide to sell, you can legitimately describe it as a gen watch with a repainted dial (& aftermarket insert) & recoup some serious Joachimstalers.

[donerix]

I was thinking along the same lines, but I am just worried that I won't find the missing parts.

The 1065 GMT would need nothing, so maybe not a bad way to go and keep a few Joachimstalers (love that one BTW, being German and all...)

I am going to sleep over it now...

[freddy333]

I do not believe Rolex ever made a gmt version of the 1065; only the 1036 & 1066. Also, be careful not to buy a 1036/1066 thinking it is a gmt only to find that it has no gmt functions. Rolex made both gmt & standard versions of both calibers & they are very difficult to tell apart without good, clear macros of the bottom (dial side) of the movement. Compare to my 1036gmt before hitting the buy button.

[woof*]

I do not believe Rolex ever made a gmt version of the 1065; only the 1036 & 1066. Also, be careful not to buy a 1036/1066 thinking it is a gmt only to find that it has no gmt functions. Rolex made both gmt & standard versions of both calibers & they are very difficult to tell apart without good, clear macros of the bottom (dial side) of the movement. Compare to my 1036gmt before hitting the buy button.

I am amazed as usual of your knowledge Freddy, but like donnerex..I expected you would know these answers. You are a great resource here and much appreciated.

[donerix]

Thanks again, Freddy. There was a moment last night when I was very close to get up and send that costly email

This is the movement in question (sorry no real pic of the front of the movement without dial):

So you think this could just have the GMT hand on their but without function?

BTW - this is not the dial that would come with the movement. It's this one:

Thanks again for the great advice

[alligoat]

FWIW, I received an email from Jewelryandwatch- Phong, he has a 6542 for sale for $4500. 1030 movement, so the same question, is it a true GMT movement, or did it receive a Phong/Vietnamese mod?

http://jewelryandwatch.com/index1.html

Of course, as is the case, I'd figure most of the parts are aftermarket at that point.

[donerix]

Just looked at it. What's funny is that the movement on the pic is actually a 1066.

Maybe it's not of the actual watch.....

[freddy333]

So you think this could just have the GMT hand on their but without function?

BTW - this is not the dial that would come with the movement. It's this one:

1st, I was mistaken. Rolex did make a 1065gmt (I found a pic of a known-gen 6542 in my archives with a 1065-signed bridge), so either is possible. I found this in 1 of my Rolex parts books, which both proves the existence of the 1065gmt, but also provides you with a roadmap to converting a standard 1065/1066 over to gmt form (note the printing on these balance cocks vs NDT's)

The 1065/1066 balance cock is what sets these apart from the earlier 1030/1035/1036 series

I do not know what NDt or Phong use to make their gmts function (based on what I have seen of their other work, I would guess they are 'custom-made' parts) &, of course, anything is possible with vintage Rolex, but the NDT movement looks like a franken - it has a 1035/1036 style cock (like my 1036gmt), but with a bridge signed '1065'.

[donerix]

Freddy: Thanks for digging that up from your archives.

I am awaiting a pic of the front of the movement without dial and will post it when I get it.

PS: I could see that they used a 1036 balance [censored] to turn a 1065 in a 1065 GMT, but I guess I could live with it in the end as long as the movement functions properly