eddhead Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Couldn't agree more. If GBR wasn't so far off on guns, you wouldn't have to worry about knives at all. The only REAL crime deterrent is an armed populace. The deterrent of knowing you face an immediate violent death if you pull a knife on someone would solve that problem overnight. The statement about an armed populace being the only real crime deterrent is inconsistent with statistical findings: 1. The US has one of the highest homicide rates of any of developed country. We also have one of the least restrictive set of firearms control laws. More than 1/2 or all homicides are firearm related. 2. Within the US ares with the highest percentage of gun ownership also have the highest homicide and suicide rates. There are numerous surveys that substatiate these claims, some of them can be found here: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/Firearms.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Too late to stop a derail now... I wasn't even speaking of US gun laws, but no matter... the point is banning something doesn't take it out of the bad peoples hands. The people who obey the rules aren't the ones doing drivebys anyway, and those doing the drivebys now have a lower chance of someone firing back (any good person bystander is likely unarmed) thus making it even more tempting and making the gun they did get illegaly even more valuable. ex: Before gun banning lets say 50% of populace is armed, and 90% of criminals are armed, after gun banning maybe 5% of populace is armed and 60% of criminals are armed (due to more difficulty getting guns overall). Which picture looks better to you? I certainly think as a criminal I would think twice if it were a 50/50 chance the guy I pull a gun on pulls one back... but 5% chance? Gimme your money... It's certainly overly simplified, but the point remains... it's a snap judgement to say "The symptom is horrible, if you had witnessed the symptom you would think differently! Band the sympton!" It's the same logic that allowed the US people to be tricked into supporting the imperialistic situation we are in now... but that topic would derail even a derailed topic. I guess we are not going to agree on this. As a criminal there is a lesser chance you would have a gun at all if gun control laws were national and uniformally applied. There have been a number of statistical studies that substante the direct correlation between number of handguns and number of homicides. My previous thread refers provides an index to a number of such articles. As to driveby killings, my point is that most of the people being trageted are armed as well. Doesn't prevent them from being shot at though. The real problem is that a significantly high percentage of deaths are to people who just happened to have the bad luck of being in the way. Are you saying that if they had guns, they would not get shot? Does that mean that everyone should be REQUIRED to be armed just in case some lunatic degenerate happens to shoot them by mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 (edited) @1:As a member of this forum my views are as valid as any forum member. Please see below. @2: Selling knives that may not be legal in the UK, to UK members will pull in a lot more heat than replica watches for sure. You have not considered this? That's a bit short sighted with the current knife problems in the UK. @3: I am not seeking answers to UK legislation, in fact I provided that information, as a link in this thread. @4: That is very true, but I have only mentioned the UK nowhere else. All joking aside my comments to you in this thread were in jest as I hope yours were to me, but if you make a serious post in my direction then please address me by my forum name. My previous question is still unanswered? I never said your views weren't valid......what I said was that it's not your business what other members buy. It's not illegal for me and probably most other dealers to sell knives to anyone in the UK.....what is illegal is for a UK member to buy one......that's his choice...if he chooses to flaunt the law in his country.....so mote it be.......just the same as members in France and Italy choose to buy replicas.....for which they can receive heavy punishment......it's not for me to judge whether a person has the right to buy according to the laws of his country. You weren't seeking answers to UK legislation....but you were soliciting information as to whether these items are being sold and or bought by other members......I pay to sell my items here....you do not....as for other members buying habits.....once again that should be of no concern to you. I sold a knife on here last month....the guy just e-mailed to say that he got his foot caught in a bear trap whilst out hunting...he had his rifle but not enough ammunition to shoot his foot off......he was glad of the knife I sold him....a large hunting knife.....he was able to cut his foot off and crawl for help.......he expressed his thanks and told me..."boy was I sure glad you took Paypal and that I bought that knife.....I wouldn't be here to tell the tale....if I hadn't".....! Edited October 20, 2006 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted October 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 It was not my intention with this thread to criticise anyone who buys or sells knives and of course I can see the distinction between a tool and a weapon. Speedy I never for one moment implied that US members were assholes so I'll thankyou not to misquote me, however it cannot be denied that the American attitude to weapons is very different from the UK - incidentally I used to be a registered UK handgun owner in the days before a certain individual went on a shooting spree in Hungerford and "killed" it for me. I was just curious as to what members thought and it has certainly prompted some interesting (and some plain stupid) comments/debate. As a former gun owner (and professional soldier for many years) to say that it's not the gun that kills but the person pulling the trigger is a flawed argument because guns are only designed with one purpose - to kill -the fact that they cannot operate by themselves is immaterial - if they did not exist they could not kill. Of course knives are not solely designed to kill, their widest practical use is in the kitchen, but they are a "double edged sword" literally and my initial post merely questioned their place on a forum dedicated to the love of watches - fake or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 The statement about an armed populace being the only real crime deterrent is inconsistent with statistical findings: 1. The US has one of the highest homicide rates of any of developed country. We also have one of the least restrictive set of firearms control laws. More than 1/2 or all homicides are firearm related. 2. Within the US ares with the highest percentage of gun ownership also have the highest homicide and suicide rates. There are numerous surveys that substatiate these claims, some of them can be found here: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/Firearms.htm Yes, let's talk statistics. Excellent. Let's talk about where the murders in the United States are taking place... Washington DC, New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles have the strictest gun control policies in the United States, and YET they suffer from the highest murder rates in the United States. But how can this possibly be!?!? Oh, because illegal gun ownership is included in your percentages. OK, so, what are the effects of less gun control? Again, we must look to the numbers to discover the answer. In 1999, 824 people died from firearm accidents, while the defensive use of guns saved approximately 400,000 lives, in most cases without even wounding the aggressor. The more you look at statistics the more they tell the real story of gun control's toll on everyday American life... And it's not good. However, if you can't quite grasp the concept of guns saving lives, consider how criminals would react to a sign on your lawn saying, "This home is a gun-free zone." On the otherhand, take note that when select counties in the US have mandated home owners own a firearm (yes, it has happend) that home invasions in those counties plumeted by 90%. And it only makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 I don't have any problems with them being sold here, but this is a quote from the link I provided: "What You Can't Have ... The following items are banned from sale within the UK (although if you already own one you may keep it, but not use it outside of your own property) ... Switchblades, automatics or 'flick-knives', gravity knives, balisongs or 'butterfly knives', push daggers, belt buckle knives, sword canes, or knuckle-duster knives." Are any of those knives being sold here? As you can see I said "I don't have any problems with them being sold here" But if there was an incident with a knife in the UK, be it fatal or non-fatal, then police would trace it's original place of puchase. If by a very small chance it was traced back to this forum as it's point of sale, then it could spell the end of this forum. Now that has a great deal to do with me and the other forum members. Anyway it's not up to me, but it is worth considering that they pose a far greater risk to the authorities than a replica watch. That sort of attention is not what this kind of forum needs is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkerouac Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 At this stage, I'd say members are doing more damage to themselves and each other via childish "cutting comments" than they would ever inflict via knives, even if you were in the same room together. Look at how quickly these discussions descend into juvenile insults. Even relatively mature people can lose control very quickly. With words, you can simply walk away and decide that "xxx" or "yyyy" is a blooming idiot/[censored]. If a weapon is present, a momentary lapse can be much more harmful. I respect Finepics for raising this question. I acknowledge the rights of knife collectors to do their thing, and for knife vendors to do theirs -- as long as this doesn't turn into a weapons forum. Then I and others would either ask that you take your community elsewhere.... or I (and apparently others) would leave. There is no need to get hostile about differences of opinion. Otherwise this might be a Pam 110 forum or a Submariner forum and no one would ever discuss any other watches. How boring would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted October 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 @ jkerouac - you seem to be one of the few that actually grasped my initial point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 (edited) @Finepics...! Two points of delusion on your part...! 1. I used to be a registered UK handgun owner in the days before a certain individual went on a shooting spree in Hungerford and "killed" it for me. Michael Ryan and Hungerford wasn't responsible for the removal of your legitimately held firearms...it was Admin Hamilton and the murder of 16 children at Dunblane. 2. This debate is not about weapons.....such as guns.....it's about knives.....! As an aside.....if I thought for one second that by selling someone an Asian movement watch that would potentially run 5 minutes fast.....causing that member to believe that he was late for a very important appointment....meaning that he would jump into his car and rush to the appointment....hurtling headlong into an Escalade and being killed on the spot with massive internal injuries.....broken bones and brain damage beyond repair...I wouldn't sell any more watches......but that's just me. Edited October 20, 2006 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy1 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 (edited) ............ Edited October 21, 2006 by speedy1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 But if there was an incident with a knife in the UK, be it fatal or non-fatal, then police would trace it's original place of puchase. If by a very small chance it was traced back to this forum as it's point of sale, then it could spell the end of this forum. Now that has a great deal to do with me and the other forum members. Anyway it's not up to me, but it is worth considering that they pose a far greater risk to the authorities than a replica watch. That sort of attention is not what this kind of forum needs is it? You need to stay off the drugs...or resume your meds.....not quite sure what your problem is.....but I bet it's a bastard to spell....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 You need to stay off the drugs...or resume your meds.....not quite sure what your problem is.....but I bet it's a bastard to spell....! I don't really understand your problem with what I posted. I am just saying that selling knives on this forum "could" draw more unwelcome attention to our little replica watch forum. Whats so UNBELIEVABLE about that? Please do tell............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 At this point I can just see all of the agencies all around the world ..dedicated to tracking down the purveyors of counterfeit items.....throwing up their hands in horror....crying...."hold the f****g fort, stop what you're doing......the f****rs are selling WMD's now.......TTK is posting knives for sale......how in the name of f**k are we gonna combat this"...! BTW....shut down RWG.....we need to stop the sale of knives on it.....the watches were bad enough....but........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 TTK, do you have any suggestions for sharpening the serrated portion of the knife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 Yes....give it to a good cutler......! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 At this point I can just see all of the agencies all around the world ..dedicated to tracking down the purveyors of counterfeit items.....throwing up their hands in horror....crying...."hold the f****g fort, stop what you're doing......the f****rs are selling WMD's now.......TTK is posting knives for sale......how in the name of f**k are we gonna combat this"...! BTW....shut down RWG.....we need to stop the sale of knives on it.....the watches were bad enough....but........ I think you badly underestimate the current climate in the UK towards knives. I still stand by my post stating the possible problems that may arise. Also because of your attitude, I have changed my mind, I am against knife sales on this forum. Try and have a discussion without pulling it down to the gutter with silly personal comments. All you had to do was say you don't think selling knives here will have any serious repercussions. Simple............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 Look Son, I think you're a bit new to all this.....you're so green...I thought you were a plant.......you're getting your panties all scrunched up in your schuch.... I don't live in the UK...I saw sense........so UK law doesn't apply to me.....and I make no estimations....regarding the climate.....I don't want to live in any country that abuses it's people by giving Jade Goody celebrity status.....! I sell internationally.....and if truth be told...UK sales of anything for me....are a small percentage.....so there's no clout there....! As for possible problems.....believe me there is no need for you to be paranoid over a couple of knife sales on a board that is DEDICATED to the promotion and sale of THOUSANDS of counterfeit items.....! I have news for you.....it's completely LEGAL to sell knives......there are MILLIONS of them on sale all over the internet........the bizzies at Brixton nick...ain't gonna be interested in the sale of a couple of knives.....if that was the case....every time somebody got plunged in your neck of the woods.....ALL the local cutlery shops including Argos / Habitat and Index would be shedding the stuff by the truckload. Can I ask you a question....? Are you a luvvy......'cos you're being a bit theatrical here...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted October 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 Yeah, Yeah, Did you SEE you quote in my post? Nuh huh, didn't think so. Finepics, i respect you and admire you as one of THE best forum members around here with knowledge and skill. However, you LOVE a good row and I have seen you throw as much fuel on fire just by pointing out others are doing so and then wade into the arguement with both feet. You are THE FIRST to cry and wine when something offends you whether it is pics of gun with watches or knives being sold. If it puts sand in your vagina you will sure as hell post about it. So go [censored] up a damn rope and ship me my [censored]in datewheel. I wasn't aiming directly at you with that remark but if you feel the need to call me out then kiss my ass. Actually I took your remark - "And the United States are a bunch of assholes ...but no offense" to be a reply to one of my earlier comments (since it's almost a direct quote albeit slightly altered) - if I am wrong then please accept my apologies. I did not start this thread in order to have an international slanging match and in my opinion the only real US arseholes (as we prefer to say) are G.W. Bush and D. Rumsfeld, but that's another subject altogether. But I am [censored] off at your other remarks - I certainly do not love a good row and generally stay away from this kind of exchange - only on very rare occasions have I joined in on things like this and rarely have I started a controversial subject before which if you had read properly you would have seen that I was only raising the subject to guage other members opinions of non replica items being sold on what is principally a watch forum. To say I am the FIRST TO WINE (actually spelt WHINE) I take as a gross insult. Your datewheel will be shipped next week along with everyones elses and don't [censored]ing bother me with anything else in future - [censored] (look that quaint British expression up - actually I'll save you the bother - it's the same as [censored]). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy1 Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 (edited) Never mind, I let my temper get aways from me apologies finepics Edited October 21, 2006 by speedy1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 Sure are a lot of sensitive people in here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted October 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 Never mind, I let my temper get aways from me apologies finepics Dude - no problem - I actually think the forum had become rather boring of late and this has kind of stirred things up a little. That was not my intention but it is sort of fun. However that is not to denigrate some of the very serious replies from some people regarding their personal experiences with this subject - including you. My apologies too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 Yes, let's talk statistics. Excellent. Let's talk about where the murders in the United States are taking place... Washington DC, New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles have the strictest gun control policies in the United States, and YET they suffer from the highest murder rates in the United States. But how can this possibly be!?!? Oh, because illegal gun ownership is included in your percentages. OK, so, what are the effects of less gun control? Again, we must look to the numbers to discover the answer. In 1999, 824 people died from firearm accidents, while the defensive use of guns saved approximately 400,000 lives, in most cases without even wounding the aggressor. The more you look at statistics the more they tell the real story of gun control's toll on everyday American life... And it's not good. However, if you can't quite grasp the concept of guns saving lives, consider how criminals would react to a sign on your lawn saying, "This home is a gun-free zone." On the otherhand, take note that when select counties in the US have mandated home owners own a firearm (yes, it has happend) that home invasions in those counties plumeted by 90%. And it only makes sense. I beg your pardon but NYC does not have one of the higest murder rates in the US. In fact, it has one of the lowest homicide rates of major cities in the US and has been within the top 10 for several years now. Nothwithstanding the crap you read from NRA news letters (yeah, i read the article too .. shows you what how you can distort a truth ), you need to adjust your statistics to account for the population at large.. that is why they call it a 'rate' . The problem with washington dc is its proximity to maryland and virgina where guns are easily obtained. I'll give you chicago and detroit though.. the problem there is with out of state manufacturers who illegally market and distribute gun products to chicago gangs and felons. lack of a federal registration requirement and database. these cities have the right laws, but they lack the tools to support them. And that is the point State wide gun control will never be effective as long as people have the option of going across state lines and purchasing guns from less restrictive states or area gun dealers can flaunt the law. That is why we need National not state laws. It will never happen though, not in this political climate. the NRA just has too much money to throw around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 this IS fun.. now let's talk about Iraq!!! (NOT!!!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 TTK selling knives on this board is fine... Take a quick browse through the items for sell here as well as the hundreds of different topics that are discussed that have nothing to do with Watch's and one can quickly resolve that we are a community of many interest... Yes - Our common ground is Watch's... But like any other place on earth where peeps gather, relationships get established, communication gets engaged, and life happens... Topics, come and go... Threads live and die... Hell, even sub-forums live and die (if you don't believe me then just visit the Bin)... The thing that will always remain a constant is us - the members... Allow people to have difference of opinions without going personal on them... This is a GREAT place we have here in RWG... Enjoy it! Now shut the hell up and read my signature for gawds sake... TT PS: If this thread continues to digress with personal attacks we'll have no other choice but to close it, so play nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 (edited) GUYS....GUYS...GUYS........wrong subject......you don't spell knives....'GUNS'....GET MAH DRIFT.......WRONG SUBJECT....! It's about these....they're great for woodcarving....opening boxes.....cutting string......cutting cloth for bandages.......cutting out hooks that catch you instead of the fish.......it's not about tyre irons...which are good for changing wheels...and bludgeoning people to death.....! Edited October 21, 2006 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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