Valty Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Hello RWG :-) The question is in the title : Do you know someone who is reluming dial with Tritium ? I'm thinking about buying a DRSD 1665 dial at NDT, but I'm not a big fan of the job done on the markers. I guess the material they are using is not Tritium... Please let me know if you have suggestions about a "vintage relume" for this kind of dial Cheers ! R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 I know the Zigmeister does a custom Vintage Tritium Mix Lume that is outstanding! Here's a couple of examples of watches he's done for me: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valty Posted April 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 It looks indeed very good !!! I put The Zig on my list I'm curious to know if PBdad can use the same kind of lume mix... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valty Posted April 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Red, just for curiosity, do you know about the age of your Tritium (in other words - does it glow) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cib0rgman Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Tritium is not available anymore, is radiative and it was used on dial a long long time ago, now luminova is used instead. nevertheless The Zigmeister will and amazing job While tritium has several different experimentally determined values of its half-life, the National Institute of Standards and Technology lists 4,500±8 days (approximately 12.32 years).[1] It decays into helium-3 by beta decay as in this nuclear and it releases 18.6 keV of energy in the process. The electron's kinetic energy varies, with an average of 5.7 keV, while the remaining energy is carried off by the nearly undetectable electron antineutrino. Beta particles from tritium can penetrate only about 6.0 mm of air, and they are incapable of passing through the dead outermost layer of human skin.[2] The unusually low energy released in the tritium beta decay makes the decay (along with that of rhenium-187) an appropriate laboratory for absolute neutrino mass measurements (the most recent experiment being KATRIN). Tritium is potentially dangerous if inhaled or ingested. It can combine with oxygen to form tritiated water molecules, and those can be absorbed through pores in the skin. The low energy of tritium's radiation makes it difficult to detect tritium-labeled compounds except by using liquid scintillation counting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valty Posted April 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Tritium is not available anymore, is radiative and it was on dial a long long time ago, now luminoiva is used instead. nevertheless The Zigmeister will and amazing job I know about the radioactive effect of Tritium ;-) But in case of a vintage project, luminova is not an option, and I bet Tritium is still used today for re-luming... Maybe with more carefully than in the past... This is why I asked the question :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Red, just for curiosity, do you know about the age of your Tritium (in other words - does it glow) ? It does glow, but not as brightly as a superlumed dial. The 9411 has died down a bit (which I actually like better). Also, the 9411 has aged rather nicely since that picture. It has a great patina to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 I bet Tritium is still used today for re-luming... Maybe with more carefully than in the past... No. The only case where tritium is still used is in sealed tubes in a couple of watches made by (I think) Ball, but not positive about that. Tritium has not been available for sale or use in watches for about 20 years. Also, if authenticity is important to you, it is better NOT to have any glow, since very few tritium dials have any glow in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valty Posted April 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 It does glow, but not as brightly as a superlumed dial. The 9411 has died down a bit (which I actually like better). Also, the 9411 has aged rather nicely since that picture. It has a great patina to it This is exactly what I am looking for Thank you for your precious input ! No. The only case where tritium is still used is in sealed tubes in a couple of watches made by (I think) Bell, but not positive about that. Tritium has not been available for sale or use in watches for about 20 years. Also, if authenticity is important to you, it is better NOT to have any glow, since very few tritium dials have any glow in them. I didn't known about the unavailability of the Tritium into the watch world... I agree with you about the glowing - I'm not looking for a "torch glowing", but just natural glowing when you are "activating" the Tritium with a powerful source of luminosity. Just like my gen 1601, for example Anyway, I will PM The Zig to know if his mix is available or not !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeKa Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 The trick to get "gen looking" relume then is just to use more base material and less lume Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Or no lume. It is relatively rare for a 30+ year-old tritium dial to have any glow left in it, regardless of how intense the light or how long the charge. Again, if authenticity is the goal, it is best to have a watch that seems typical for its type (having a dial that does not glow), rather than atypical (having 1 of the rare tritium dials that still glows, even if dimly). When you want viewers to accept non-gen parts as gen, it is best to keep under the radar so to speak & not to have anything in the watch that raises suspicion. Having a glowing tritium dial definitely raises questions whenever I see 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 I read somewhere, maybe here... and maybe it was zig. but a dial was relumed with tritium. the tritiium was sourced from an old sign, or something like that, and then mixed up in paint and used to restore the dial. Only a small amount of tritium was scraped off then mixed up into paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cib0rgman Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 I read somewhere, maybe here... and maybe it was zig. but a dial was relumed with tritium. the tritiium was sourced from an old sign, or something like that, and then mixed up in paint and used to restore the dial. Only a small amount of tritium was scraped off then mixed up into paint. old exit signs used tritium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Keep in mind that there is relatively little tritium in gen dials & the visual texture of the lume is not due to the tritium, but to the substrate (paint) it is mixed into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 I'm just wondering what shops like Causemann Zifferblatter, F. Perelli, Donze Cadrans and other professional refinishers use when they have to restore a T dial. I think it's almost a guarantee they can work with tritium if you're paying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 My understanding has been that tritium is unavailable for sale (outside of the military) & I know absolutely nothing more than what you can read for yourself, but try here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Tritium relumes come one of 3 ways - scraping tritium off of old watches, exit signs (which are basically made with old tubes like a Ball watch) and finally Tritium from Tritech (difficult but not impossible to obtain). My latest Pr-V in the PAM section is relumed with trititum. I assume everyone knows tritium is actually a gas and half the battle is having the right bonding agent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Tritium is a gas, as Freddy is implying. A luminous paste is mixed with the Tritium, and the radioactivity excites the luminous paste exactly in the same way that light excites Luminova. Not only "old" Exit signs use Tritium. They are perfectly available for purchase by builders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Couldn't we commission some mercenaries to hijack a shipment of Russian nuclear warheads, just so we could scrape out the sweet, sweet tritium inside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valty Posted April 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Thank you all guys for your precious inputs, it is really appreciated I will see with The Zig for now if he can source T these days...! Or no lume. It is relatively rare for a 30+ year-old tritium dial to have any glow left in it, regardless of how intense the light or how long the charge. Again, if authenticity is the goal, it is best to have a watch that seems typical for its type (having a dial that does not glow), rather than atypical (having 1 of the rare tritium dials that still glows, even if dimly). To be honest, the lume is not a purpose to me ! But, one of my purpose is to have a "living" dial. As cib0rgman said, Tritium is "creating" tritiated water (also known as super-heavy water), witch is very corrosive. And I'm pretty sure only the Tritium can "create" the great patina / corrosion effect we are only seeing on gen dials. What we are seeing with luminova based-mixture is not really "living", and I bet we will never see any kind of "real" patina with luminova. This is why I'm pretty sure reluming a "vintage" dial with Tritium is the best way to create a "real" and living patina in the time And if it glow - no problem, I'm relatively young, and I can wait until it stops glowing... And then, I hope to see a great patina created by the Tritium contamination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 There is no evidence that I am aware of (25+ years of watch collecting) indicating that tritium is directly responsible for a dial's overall patina. In fact, the jury is still out as to what causes just the lume itself to discolor over time (some say UV, some say lack of UV, some say moisture, some say O2, some say heat, etc). The way I see it, if you want your dial to age over time (measured in decades), just wear it. UV will age the paint on the dial regardless of the type of material that energizes its lume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavidoc Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 There is no evidence that I am aware of (25+ years of watch collecting) indicating that tritium is directly responsible for a dial's overall patina. In fact, the jury is still out as to what causes just the lume itself to discolor over time (some say UV, some say lack of UV some say moisture, some say O2, some say heat, etc). The way I see it, if you want your dial to age over time (measured in decades), just wear it. UV will age the paint on the dial regardless of the type of material that energizes its lume. I'm with Freddy on this one. I've seen tritium patina at different rates and it also varies by manufacturer. Omega tritium always decays very poorly compared to Rolex yet even Rolex will decay differently. I have a 1883 Rolex 16800 Sub matte dial and the tritium dial is completely dead but still very white. I also have a late run 9411 Snowflake (early 80's and same time frame as the rolex) that is a slightly cream white but the dial and hands still partially glow all night long. At one point I owned an early 80's Speedmaster. The tritium on it was completely dead and was a dark brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsterRider Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 I've seen plenty of older Bond subs, using Luminova, that have a good amount of patina. No need for tritium if the color of the lume is the main concern. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramviksrille Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Fyi, i tried to get some of the lumers around, vaclume and some others to lume my watch with trithium tubes and none of them want to touch the watch they simply state: i dont work with trithium watches. And this was with trithium secured in tubes on a dial in a watch that are supposed to be bulletproof... So now Im trying to learn it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 I know on some of the older PAM dials, the yellowing aged lume had to do with the varnish coating used on the dial.....Same watch, same lume on the hands - no yellowing/aging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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