david.the.marvelous Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) http://www.trustytim...roducts_id=3425 This is clearly not the case. Plating thicknesses for precious metal objects and related trade is regulated by specific rules that are administered by the U.S. Federal Trade Commission. This can be found in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16, Commercial practices Part 23 January 1999. Precious metals under F.T.C. regulations include gold, silver, and the platinum metals group. F.T.C. requirements for plating thickness are expressed in both microinches and microns (see chart . http://www.artisanplating.com/articles/platingthick.html 5 mil x 25.4 microns / 1 mil = 127 microns The "thickest" gold plating standards set by the federal trade commission is called "heavy gold plate" which is 2.5 microns thick. If trusty's watches are 127 microns thick of x carats of gold, then they're 51 times thicker than the thickest gold plating standards set by the FTC... At a very minimum, I think the trusted dealers should get their units of measurement right. Or they could just say "Hey, we don't actually know how thick it is, but we're told its thick!" Edited May 12, 2012 by david.the.marvelous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 To be honest it is just marketing they say lots of things like 1-1 and made with a genuine sample, there is no trading standards agency here, the ols and bold know what is belivable and what is not, yes truth an honesty would be nice but with experience you can make good purchaces and get what you ordered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.the.marvelous Posted May 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 I'm actually curious how thick their gold plating actually is though :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 The thickness of 'gold' flashing/plating (or whatever term you prefer) on any given rep watch is dependent entirely on the intentions of the person who flashed that watch. There is little consistency & no real QC in the contraband world, so trying to define standards is an act of lunacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 http://www.trustytim...roducts_id=3425 This is clearly not the case. Altho the "trusted dealers" have a proven track record of problem resolution they are still merchants selling contraband goods. Always keep an eye on that fact, and you'll understand more about your hobby. Not everything they say in the ads is true, and you will come to learn what is hype and what is real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankt Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 I'm actually curious how thick their gold plating actually is though :/ So are the dealers......but neither of you will ever find out!!! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.the.marvelous Posted May 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) The thickness of 'gold' flashing/plating (or whatever term you prefer) on any given rep watch is dependent entirely on the intentions of the person who flashed that watch. There is little consistency & no real QC in the contraband world, so trying to define standards is an act of lunacy. I'm not sure what you mean. It sounds like you're saying the thickness of the gold plating is a function of the wearers intentions. This doesn't make sense, but maybe that's not what you were trying to say. I understand that there is little consistancy in the rep world. Fair enough. However, the trusted dealers should at least have a couple of their reps analyzed. They could take in one of their reps with a "thick" plating finish and one with a "thin" and then report those findings on their website as the standard for thick and thin gold plating. 5 mils just sounds stupid and unrealistic. Edited May 13, 2012 by david.the.marvelous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 I'm not sure what you mean. It sounds like you're saying the thickness of the gold plating is a function of the wearers intentions. This doesn't make sense, but maybe that's not what you were trying to say. I understand that there is little consistancy in the rep world. Fair enough. However, the trusted dealers should at least have a couple of their reps analyzed. They could take in one of their reps with a "thick" plating finish and one with a "thin" and then report those findings on their website as the standard for thick and thin gold plating. 5 mils just sounds stupid and unrealistic. Person who flashed the watch = Factory worker who performed the gold plating process, thus how well they were prepared to do their job As for the other boldened point, why should they? People are happy to either buy the product as described, or not. The dealers don't care if their terms are inaccurate, and they certainly don't care about the US legislature whIch you posted I'm not sure if you were making a joke that they should adhere to those standards, or if you naïvely believe they actually should, but at the end of the day, they are selling contraband, not discounted 'factory seconds'. The kind of standards you're describing apply to genuine watches only. Freddy has mentioned several times in the past that the gold plating on rep watches has never been brilliant, is prone to wearing off, and thus full gold colored and two tone reps are not recommended as day to day beaters, as they can apparently lose their finish quite quickly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin18 Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 You can get plating that thick in semi rare metals like Chrome and satin. Its obvious the 5mil gold plating is not true. At the end of the day (with all due respect) we're dealing with crooks who are illegally selling counterfit goods. You should never trust them 100% with anything to say. We just have to accept that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 What I have always wondered about is how thick the coatings are. I know Gold Filled in the U.S. legally means that 1/20th of the metal is some form of gold (usually 10 or 14k). I always wondered what that implies for the thickness. Gold filled stuff can easily last 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.the.marvelous Posted May 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Person who flashed the watch = Factory worker who performed the gold plating process, thus how well they were prepared to do their job As for the other boldened point, why should they? People are happy to either buy the product as described, or not. The dealers don't care if their terms are inaccurate, and they certainly don't care about the US legislature whIch you posted I'm not sure if you were making a joke that they should adhere to those standards, or if you naïvely believe they actually should, but at the end of the day, they are selling contraband, not discounted 'factory seconds'. The kind of standards you're describing apply to genuine watches only. Freddy has mentioned several times in the past that the gold plating on rep watches has never been brilliant, is prone to wearing off, and thus full gold colored and two tone reps are not recommended as day to day beaters, as they can apparently lose their finish quite quickly I never once said that they should adhere to any standards set by any government If not for standards of quality replica watches, what are we here for? Why do people like ByTor and everyone else take the time that they do to conduct quality reviews? To set standards for replica watches, yeah? The point that I am trying to make is that in order to improve their (the dealers) business model, and in order to sell more gold and two tone replicas, they could do what i recommended earlier. My guess is that of all the watches they sell, maybe 10-15% of them are gold plated or two tone. Because there are no standards at all for their gold plating, nobody wants to take the chance of shelling out 400 bucks to get a rep with shitting plating that wears off. If they were to correct this malfunction in their business model, and if they were to announce and advertise the appropriate measures that they were taking to correct this problem, it seems reasonable that their number of sales for their gold and two tone pieces would increase. Furthermore, if the sales of two tone watches and gold plated watches increased, it might fare pretty well for them in that gold plated watches, in general, are more expensive than steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Have you priced gold lately? How much actual gold do you think you are going to get on a $300 or $400 rep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave123 Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 (edited) I never once said that they should adhere to any standards set by any government If not for standards of quality replica watches, what are we here for? Why do people like ByTor and everyone else take the time that they do to conduct quality reviews? To set standards for replica watches, yeah? The point that I am trying to make is that in order to improve their (the dealers) business model, and in order to sell more gold and two tone replicas, they could do what i recommended earlier. My guess is that of all the watches they sell, maybe 10-15% of them are gold plated or two tone. Because there are no standards at all for their gold plating, nobody wants to take the chance of shelling out 400 bucks to get a rep with shitting plating that wears off. If they were to correct this malfunction in their business model, and if they were to announce and advertise the appropriate measures that they were taking to correct this problem, it seems reasonable that their number of sales for their gold and two tone pieces would increase. Furthermore, if the sales of two tone watches and gold plated watches increased, it might fare pretty well for them in that gold plated watches, in general, are more expensive than steel. Buddy. Alot of bs goes on with these dealers and thats what the forums are here for,talk to each other,discuss whats bs and not,but frankly the real dealers in this game would rather that none of these forums existed,it would be better for business if we didnt. Small potatoes,and in their opinion,a handfull of know it alls. We really are not much when it comes to the counterfeit market. Guys like By-Tor and others back in the day did reviews to promote discussion in our small community,but again,in the counterfeit watch trade as a whole,we are just a small annoyance that the dealers listed here try to combat,while pretending to be a friend. It is what it is,dont think that asking them to be honest to us really means much,it would hurt them more than help,really. Edited May 15, 2012 by Dave123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 I never once said that they should adhere to any standards set by any government If not for standards of quality replica watches, what are we here for? Why do people like ByTor and everyone else take the time that they do to conduct quality reviews? To set standards for replica watches, yeah? The point that I am trying to make is that in order to improve their (the dealers) business model, and in order to sell more gold and two tone replicas, they could do what i recommended earlier. My guess is that of all the watches they sell, maybe 10-15% of them are gold plated or two tone. Because there are no standards at all for their gold plating, nobody wants to take the chance of shelling out 400 bucks to get a rep with shitting plating that wears off. If they were to correct this malfunction in their business model, and if they were to announce and advertise the appropriate measures that they were taking to correct this problem, it seems reasonable that their number of sales for their gold and two tone pieces would increase. Furthermore, if the sales of two tone watches and gold plated watches increased, it might fare pretty well for them in that gold plated watches, in general, are more expensive than steel. So why quote legislature if you don't want it applied? Other than that, I can't add anything to what Dave has already said in response Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrari1 Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Even on gen watches with gold plating, it tends to wear off quite quickly. I saw a bvlgari rep advertised recently as being brass rather than rose gold plated, and that seems like a better idea. Also some of the hublots seem to be gold ceramic rather than gold, which should wear well also. I quite like the idea of a two tone rep, but will not be buying one soon due to these problems. Maybe my next gen will be a two tone Daytona, as they can't rep the case or the movement right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rek001 Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 The two tone reps I've owned - doesn't matter if the sides of the links are plated or not - the real problem is the gold they use has some impurities in it which tend to come out after awhile, the tarnish, discoloration these watches develop is really something. Sure I buff it out but it comes back again quickly. The gen gold plated watches I own don't tarnish like these reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrari1 Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Ah, I did not realize things were that bad. No point spending $300-600 on a watch that will look shabby that quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 When the plating is thin enough, atoms of the base metal migrate up through the plating and create tarnish on the surface. It is not impurities in the gold itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.the.marvelous Posted May 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 So why quote legislature if you don't want it applied? Other than that, I can't add anything to what Dave has already said in response I quoted federal regs to provide some perspective. Anyway, I've dealt with some of these dealers for many years, and I have never once felt that they are out to f*ck people over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torobravo Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 I think it´s a mistake, none of the rosegold coating have that thickness. Probably the webmaster don´t have too much knowledge about this, but the worst is that others are copy paste-ing it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 I quoted federal regs to provide some perspective. Anyway, I've dealt with some of these dealers for many years, and I have never once felt that they are out to f*ck people over. Ahh, thanks for clarifying We'll have to agree to disagree about the dealers though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthier Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 http://www.trustytim...roducts_id=3425 This is clearly not the case.http://www.artisanplating.com/articles/platingthick.html 5 mil x 25.4 microns / 1 mil = 127 microns The "thickest" gold plating standards set by the federal trade commission is called "heavy gold plate" which is 2.5 microns thick. If trusty's watches are 127 microns thick of x carats of gold, then they're 51 times thicker than the thickest gold plating standards set by the FTC... At a very minimum, I think the trusted dealers should get their units of measurement right. Or they could just say "Hey, we don't actually know how thick it is, but we're told its thick!" Not entirely correct. 1 micron is 1/1000th of a millimeter, so, 5 microns would be 5/1000 of 1 mm. Gov't standard for "heavy" plating is 2,5 mictons and 5 microns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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