TeeJay Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 id rather have my wallet raped than having my mind and attitude [censored], like we can see here You'd rather be ripped off of your hard-earned cash? You think that marketing isn't mind manipulation? Okay then nothing more than marketing? Pretty much. Why is Brand X viewed as better than Brand Y? Marketing... and wtf is alpha watch You're joking? Have you not heard of them before? They're a company who rips off designs from the Big Names like Breitling, Omega and Rolex, tweaks a couple of minor details (such as a Planet Ocean with no HEV) and then slaps their own label on it, and sells them for the same prices as budget reps... yeah then why do rep makers rely on popularity of gen brands, instead of creating their own and be succesful? I'm not saying that companies like Alpha are successful (because people like the brand names, not the homages) just that they are an example of manufacturing process and price point As for why do they rely on the popularity of the gen brands, well, that's pretty obvious, and that it's a way of making money Why dont they invent their own reliable complicated movements with top high finishing. Same reason as above... They know better than to try competing directly with the Big Dogs, so go about it in a different way... if you think most "gen owners" buy the watch to brag about, unfortunately thats case for most "rep owners", most people who buy gens just buy a watch, instead of buying swatch or similar, they buy something better because they can afford, simple as that. thoese who cant afford, buy reps, in most cases. I don't think they all necessarily buy the watch to brag about it, but there're certainly those who do brag about them once they own them. Same with rep owners, I guess yeah man its just a swanky brand name to show off, nothing else just a crappy watch with marketing brand on it a true watch ethuasist will certainly appreciate the copying skills of rep makers and chinese ETA movt's after having appreciated the quality and finishing of patek, lange or similar calibers. Exactly. and thats why this is a lonely hobby. Yeah, no one else on this dead forum for me to talk to and that desperate desire to bring "replicas" to equal level of "gens"..... Now that, I agree, is taking it too far, and comes across as the desire to (be able to) pass the watch off as genuine. I can appreciate the artistic skills required to achieve such levels of forgery in a project, but I do wonder why the builder feels the need to go to such lengths... Maybe it is just the appreciation for the hobby and the desire to use the correct parts, but personally, I do often feel that such watches would be passed off as genuine if questioned in person (even if there is no intention of selling them as thus...) both are just watches and show time dont they? Yup, so why pay more? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Error Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Very difficult. The reps are often having good quality. You might be having bad luck and receive one with poor quality. Buying a gen you can be sure. At least that it in its original position should have good quality. There might be special features with a gen. Like Rolex is always creating their own movements and Omega has the Co-Axial movement. If you have a gen, you will known that. (At least _you_ will know. Breitling, Tag Heuer and others more or less modifies (more or less) standard ETA movements. I do not find that exiting. That is why I choose Rolex as (one of) my gen. BUT the reps gave me a good insight in the feeling of wearing the watch. Back to the question; Why rep? Why gen? It is hard. Something like; "try before by" and you might be very satisfied with the try. Yes, I think i like that. I did also feel quite honest in having some gens. It gives me some better conscience in buying reps... 8-D 8-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chr1st0c Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Hi fellow members: I have always asked myself why is there such hatred against rep collectors from gen watch owners. Check any gen forum and you'll find many long threads that are full of ugly comments about people like us. I have some hypothesis about this phenomenom which I will share, but I'd like to know first if my perception is true or not. Thank youfor reading my post I have both Gens and Reps .... and I dont hate myself ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lja1821 Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 I also own more gens than reps i dont mind if one has reps.. Too each his own, spend your money how u like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffsing08 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Hmmm a gen Rolex or a cheap investment property? I wonder which will make me money! lol It's a no brainer fellas. Watches are for telling time. Now we have electronics that do that for us so watches are now purely cosmetic. How is it that rep companies can make gen knock offs that look as good and work as good for 1/100th of the price? Long story short gen watches area rip off. People have been over paying for years. Have you ever tried to resell a gen? You loose 25 to 50% of the value. You can never sell a gen for what you paid. If you invested 7500 into the stock market and got back 5000 would that be a good deal? Of course not so why is it different for watches. All my rep lovers keep being smart and resourceful. There is simply no longer any justification for spending thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands on a gen watch, especially during these economic times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 :D its a monday morning, and your picture, mate, made it into a nice LOL moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 . If you invested 7500 into the stock market and got back 5000 would that be a good deal? Of course not so why is it different for watches. Because you don't wear a stock certificate on your wrist and expose it to pizza sauce, rain, urine bouncing off the urinal, or other depreciation factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrari1 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I can appreciate the artistic skills required to achieve such levels of forgery in a project, but I do wonder why the builder feels the need to go to such lengths... Maybe it is just the appreciation for the hobby and the desire to use the correct parts, but personally, I do often feel that such watches would be passed off as genuine if questioned in person (even if there is no intention of selling them as thus...) I think gen owners can appreciate the artistic skills in making a great rep. A few years ago on Ferrari Chat, one of the most popular threads was a project by a guy who took a 308, and was installing a 400i V12 engine in it, and modding it to look like a 288 GTO. Everyone loved it. Mostly due to the craftmanship, and the obvious passion for Ferraris the builder had. Equally on a Parker Fly (guitar) forum, I read a thread where a young eastern european guy who could not afford a Parker guitar was converting a cheap telecaster into a replica Parker. No one was offended as he was doing amazing work on a budget. On car forums, there is lots of scorn for an MR2 made to look like a Ferrari, and on guitar forums, there would be a tonne of scorn for someone who puts a Fender logo on a Squire guitar, but I think all enthusiasts appreciate craftmanship 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 :D its a monday morning, and your picture, mate, made it into a nice LOL moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Because you don't wear a stock certificate on your wrist and expose it to pizza sauce, rain, urine bouncing off the urinal, or other depreciation factors. Blimey I aint buying none of your watches !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Hmmm a gen Rolex or a cheap investment property? I wonder which will make me money! lol It's a no brainer fellas. Watches are for telling time. Now we have electronics that do that for us so watches are now purely cosmetic. How is it that rep companies can make gen knock offs that look as good and work as good for 1/100th of the price? Long story short gen watches area rip off. People have been over paying for years. Have you ever tried to resell a gen? You loose 25 to 50% of the value. You can never sell a gen for what you paid. If you invested 7500 into the stock market and got back 5000 would that be a good deal? Of course not so why is it different for watches. All my rep lovers keep being smart and resourceful. There is simply no longer any justification for spending thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands on a gen watch, especially during these economic times. However if you dont know the property market you could walk away with nothing and by the same logic if you know your Rolex's etc then you could make a considerable amount of money !! Most people dont buy any luxury goods for an investment... but there are some that can and do make a significant amount of money on buying watches... most people buy a watch for a staus or reward reason... You speak to most guys wearing an expensive watch and say "Nice watch" they reply "Yeah! Its a Panerai " etc..... They dont say "Yeah! Its a Limited edition vintage model with 4 complications" etc thats because they dont care... Its a Panerai, Its expensive and its says something about them to them... The simple truth is most people buy an expensive watch because its expensive and they dont like reps because it undermines that sense of expense... any other reason will relate to smaller minority of buyers who buy for reasons stated in this thread... but they and we are the absolute minority.... in the same way we on the whole dont buy reps to pass them off as gen.... The majority of gen buyers are the same as the majority of rep buyers.... they are looking to say something to others around them about themselves....the only difference is the money... the reasoning is the same... and the lack of understanding of watches is the same (In the majority of cases) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceberg1459 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Hmmm a gen Rolex or a cheap investment property? I wonder which will make me money! lol It's a no brainer fellas. Watches are for telling time. Now we have electronics that do that for us so watches are now purely cosmetic. How is it that rep companies can make gen knock offs that look as good and work as good for 1/100th of the price? Long story short gen watches area rip off. People have been over paying for years. Have you ever tried to resell a gen? You loose 25 to 50% of the value. You can never sell a gen for what you paid. If you invested 7500 into the stock market and got back 5000 would that be a good deal? Of course not so why is it different for watches. All my rep lovers keep being smart and resourceful. There is simply no longer any justification for spending thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands on a gen watch, especially during these economic times. You can never sell a gen for what you paid why do you even talk if you have no clue about wtf you talking about =) rolex sport models gain value over time, my used sub is no longer in production and now worth more than retail. you buy watches to wear them, but its nice to know that your watches wont lose much value. it shows its brand power. its easy to talk about gens are overpriced etc.. then why dont you go and found your own brand from scratch, then sell it for rep prices, so easy =) if people are willing to pay big cash on a watch, the watch will be sold for big cash, it determines its value. market value is adjusted by people who PAY and they are mostly not idiots believe me =). in short, money talks my friend. and if there werent any gens, reps wouldnt exist. but gens can exist without reps =) dont get me wrong im not a rep hater, i usually dont give a [censored] what other guy wears a fake or not as long as its a nice watch, but one shouldnt fool himself and glorify the reps, giving them undeserved value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I think gen owners can appreciate the artistic skills in making a great rep. A few years ago on Ferrari Chat, one of the most popular threads was a project by a guy who took a 308, and was installing a 400i V12 engine in it, and modding it to look like a 288 GTO. Everyone loved it. Mostly due to the craftmanship, and the obvious passion for Ferraris the builder had. Equally on a Parker Fly (guitar) forum, I read a thread where a young eastern european guy who could not afford a Parker guitar was converting a cheap telecaster into a replica Parker. No one was offended as he was doing amazing work on a budget. On car forums, there is lots of scorn for an MR2 made to look like a Ferrari, and on guitar forums, there would be a tonne of scorn for someone who puts a Fender logo on a Squire guitar, but I think all enthusiasts appreciate craftmanship There's a difference between gen owners, and gen snobs... The majority of owners probably would appreciate the building of a rep, as long as it didn't pose a threat to their personal self-image... On the gen watch forums, Freddy's Pan Am 6542 is considered an abomination and an attempt to create a false image, rather than appreciating the skill and craftsmanship which went into building it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 then why dont you go and found your own brand from scratch, then sell it for rep prices, so easy =) Because someone likes wearing nice watches, you think they should start their own watch brand?? I want to wear a nice watch, it doesn't have to be my own brandname dont get me wrong im not a rep hater, i usually dont give a [censored] what other guy wears a fake or not as long as its a nice watch, but one shouldnt fool himself and glorify the reps, giving them undeserved value. Who is to say that they are fooling themself?? I'm sure everyone knows that they're wearing reps rather than gens, so unless they are really lying to themselves and have somehow fooled themselves into believing that it's a gen, no one is fooling themself at all What are you saying is 'undeserved value'? If a woman buys her husband a rep as a birthday present, are you saying the watch has no value? In terms of cash value, then of course it's not going to be 'worth' as much as its gen counterpart, but in terms of sentimental value, it would be priceless... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Because someone likes wearing nice watches, you think they should start their own watch brand?? I want to wear a nice watch, it doesn't have to be my own brandname Who is to say that they are fooling themself?? I'm sure everyone knows that they're wearing reps rather than gens, so unless they are really lying to themselves and have somehow fooled themselves into believing that it's a gen, no one is fooling themself at all What are you saying is 'undeserved value'? If a woman buys her husband a rep as a birthday present, are you saying the watch has no value? In terms of cash value, then of course it's not going to be 'worth' as much as its gen counterpart, but in terms of sentimental value, it would be priceless... +1 on your statement on rep watch value. I agree totally. The value of each individual watch, be it gen or rep, to its owner, is something that others should not judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Error Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Does the Gen Guys appreciate, or respect to be more correct, the art of rep’ing? I read some notes at a “Gen Forum” about reps. They were very shocked, and angry, about that the possibility of using gen parts besides reps. In other words they were not respecting the quality handicraft these producers are making. In fact; it is piracy and only copying; but any way, either you like it or not; they are producing good products. As it becomes harder and harder to part a gen from a rep there will be harder fight between the two. “Everyone” knows that Mercedes Benz no longer are the King of Quality. The Japanese cars are far better in that way. Stronger product checks prevent they from putting the star at their bonnet…. But they have built up their own brand. Some years ago I read about the production of rep Ferraris. This were not those KitCars made out of MR2, but really fake from the bottom. How exact those were, I do not know. But of all possible products; Cars, paintings, pens and watches; Watches might be the easiest to sell. I am not quite sure if I will manage to keep a pen for a long time… When will we see a high quality “own branded” watches in "Andrew & Co’s" store? 8-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Does the Gen Guys appreciate, or respect to be more correct, the art of rep’ing? I read some notes at a “Gen Forum” about reps. They were very shocked, and angry, about that the possibility of using gen parts besides reps. In other words they were not respecting the quality handicraft these producers are making. In fact; it is piracy and only copying; but any way, either you like it or not; they are producing good products. As it becomes harder and harder to part a gen from a rep there will be harder fight between the two. “Everyone” knows that Mercedes Benz no longer are the King of Quality. The Japanese cars are far better in that way. Stronger product checks prevent they from putting the star at their bonnet…. But they have built up their own brand. Some years ago I read about the production of rep Ferraris. This were not those KitCars made out of MR2, but really fake from the bottom. How exact those were, I do not know. But of all possible products; Cars, paintings, pens and watches; Watches might be the easiest to sell. I am not quite sure if I will manage to keep a pen for a long time… When will we see a high quality “own branded” watches in "Andrew & Co’s" store? 8-) As long as there exists a demand and appreciation for gen watches, and the lack of ability to afford them, there will always be reps and more reps. Unless the chinese government enforces a major ultimate sweep and clampdown, they are here to stay, love them or hate them. Even in the unlikely event that the major sweep happens, the rep makers will likely resurface like weed in the garden. And don't we love 'em weeds? I appreciate the craftsmanship of a nice genuine watch of course. I own a number of them. Yet, I enjoy my reps in a different way. Lets be honest here. Some of my reps are so well made, that I would not buy the genuine article. I won't kid myself, they are replicas. Yet, they function and look like the gen, and they cost but a fraction of the price. Value you say? i am going to keep the watch in my collection, and if I sell them to another rep collector, I would not lose in terms of what I paid for it, and what I would ask for it. So all the points about despising the rep owner, about ethics of owning a rep, they are just not in my consideration when I choose to buy a rep. I would not join RWG in the first place if I feel that the pain of the worm of morality burrowing in my conscience about this little hobby of mine. But hey, unlike the act of closet masturbation, I am happy to share and learn from fellow enthusiasts, and increase and improve my collection of reps. To me, a watch has to look nice, keep time well, and feel comfortable on the wrist. I, and you both, do not have to answer to the next guy why we choose to wear a replica instead of the genuine watch. This is simply a personal choice, and the justifications and reasons are many. Its the same when I wear my gens. I am not going to carry the certificates around when I wear the watch, and tell the next guy who asks "Look, this is a gen, and I bought it because I got an extra $5000 lying around, and I chose to buy this". If one does not talk about reasons for choosing to wear a gen watch, why should he explain for wearing a rep one? Its his own business, and his own choice. He may one day opt to switch the rep for its gen counterpart. Whether he does it or not, who would give a hoot, honestly? Let us worry about what goes on our wrist, and let us strive to improve our knowledge and widen our interest. To decry the replica collection hobby as despicable or abhorring is not something I would do. I love my rep collection and I love my membership at RWG, and the friends I have made here. I have memberships in a few other gen watch forums, and would like to say that RWG folks possess more class and knowledge than many of the upturned-nosed, limpy-handshake, and shifty-eyed blokes I met the misfortune to encounter from the other forums. We behave like real people here, replica watch owner or not. A large number of us own gens as well, and have learnt to enjoy the best of both worlds. The rep haters are simply those who have not learnt to do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lja1821 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Hmmm a gen Rolex or a cheap investment property? I wonder which will make me money! lol It's a no brainer fellas. Watches are for telling time. Now we have electronics that do that for us so watches are now purely cosmetic. How is it that rep companies can make gen knock offs that look as good and work as good for 1/100th of the price? Long story short gen watches area rip off. People have been over paying for years. Have you ever tried to resell a gen? You loose 25 to 50% of the value. You can never sell a gen for what you paid. If you invested 7500 into the stock market and got back 5000 would that be a good deal? Of course not so why is it different for watches. All my rep lovers keep being smart and resourceful. There is simply no longer any justification for spending thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands on a gen watch, especially during these economic times. Sorry but im going to have to disagree with you on that, there are many watches out there that pose to be a sound investment. If you choose the correct watch you can be sure to recoup most of your money and still be able to enjoy it. I purchased my 16613ln in dec 97 for 5k, i beleive today the value is between 4 or 5k, id say thats pretty good. Modern rollies in non precious metal version are def not worth it imho thery are more of just statements (except for the daytona). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraExtra Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Luxury goods creates exclusivity mainly to those who can afford it. They become part of a small group or tribe that have 'it'. Being part of this exclusive tribe would of course make this person feel very good about it. We see this everyday like the gold, platinum or black credit card..naturally so some of us want to be part of this exclusive group. Seeing more and more people like the general public with these goods (i.e gen or rep) loses its exclusivity value and some of these members get upset....one reason is by having to fork out $$ for something that should not cost that much really.... .but that is the whole idea behind luxury goods. The story behind the brand, pedigree, the list famous people all make it very desirable... and being part of that and the emotions that go with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Luxury goods creates exclusivity mainly to those who can afford it. They become part of a small group or tribe that have 'it'. Being part of this exclusive tribe would of course make this person feel very good about it. We see this everyday like the gold, platinum or black credit card..naturally so some of us want to be part of this exclusive group. Seeing more and more people like the general public with these goods (i.e gen or rep) loses its exclusivity value and some of these members get upset....one reason is by having to fork out $$ for something that should not cost that much really.... .but that is the whole idea behind luxury goods. The story behind the brand, pedigree, the list famous people all make it very desirable... and being part of that and the emotions that go with it. +1. The vast majority of people buy expensive watches simply because it is a status symbol......very simply put, look how well I have done. And there is nothing wrong with it. If there weren't gen luxury watches there wouldn't be reps. And we would have no fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Error Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 True! And the reps are showing exact time.... And still they are looking good. But even rep-enthusiasts are spending a lot of money on watches... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Error Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 In relation to this topic you might find the old Russian joke good…. “There were two rich Russian walking in the streets of Moscow. The first one said: “Look at my new watch. I have just bought it in the exclusive shop over there! It cost me 10000 dollar”. The second Russian looked at the watch and said; “Oh no! You have been cheated! If you had gone to the shop down at that corner you could have had exactly the same for 20000 dollar!” 8-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraExtra Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 True story. I know someone close who owns a gen 2 tone Cartier Santos. He got it from Tourneau back when the store used to send out photocopies (late 80s) of their inventory for sale. So he pent some of his hard earned $$ after being discharged from the US Navy. His first job back was a security guard working nights at a financial institution. One night he found himself one urinal stall away from a well dressed man inside the washroom. His left wrist gave away the unmistakable profile of the Santos He noticed that this well dressed man was staring at his watch even as he washed his hand...then sized him up and down in his security guard uniform, Turns out the well dressed man is one of the senior executives working late and happen to be wearing the same exact watch. Really an awkward moment for both. No one said a word and just a brief exchanged look as he left the washroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 True story. I know someone close who owns a gen 2 tone Cartier Santos. He got it from Tourneau back when the store used to send out photocopies (late 80s) of their inventory for sale. So he pent some of his hard earned $$ after being discharged from the US Navy. His first job back was a security guard working nights at a financial institution. One night he found himself one urinal stall away from a well dressed man inside the washroom. His left wrist gave away the unmistakable profile of the Santos He noticed that this well dressed man was staring at his watch even as he washed his hand...then sized him up and down in his security guard uniform, Turns out the well dressed man is one of the senior executives working late and happen to be wearing the same exact watch. Really an awkward moment for both. No one said a word and just a brief exchanged look as he left the washroom. honestly, I wouldnt be surprised if the cartier on the exec turns out to be a rep. I do know of senior execs wearing reps. I am sometimes one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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