Why in general do gen watch owners hate reps ?

[automatico]

"True story. I know someone close who owns a gen 2 tone Cartier Santos. He got it from Tourneau back when the store used to send out photocopies (late 80s) of their inventory for sale."

I bought a new tutone (Eta) quartz Santos from Alan Marcus & Co, Washington DC in 1992 for $1725. Alan Marcus & Co sent out little 12 or 18 page full color brochures back then too.

Traded it for a 'like new' tutone (7750) Breitling Chronomat on a signed strap/deployant in July 1994. Iirc the Santos was made under contract by Ebel back then.

Now I have an all steel replica quartz Santos with a Hattori (Seiko) movement that is virtually identical and cost $99. Made under contract in a back room somewhere in HK.

[rickdangerous]

lol! good one! Seiko rulez btw

[chango]

This.  Is an awesome thread!!

[Bosox]

True!

And the reps are showing exact time.... And still they are looking good.

But even rep-enthusiasts are spending a lot of money on watches...

Oh, man, you are so right.  Yesterday I updated the list I keep of rep purchases.  Without including the value of several Rolexes I bought years ago, I have dropped a small fortune on fake watches, ranging in price from $80 for a Crazy Hours to well over $800 for a Breguet tourby.  I know some of you guys could double or triple the number of watches I have.  It kind of sneaks up on you, a few hundred here and a couple hundred there and presto, thousand upon thousands have been spent.  And I have never paid for fancy frankens or even a lume job.

[SCM]

This.  Is an awesome thread!!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2013 by SCM

[simon05]

Whatever happened to imitation being the sincerest form of flattery?

[asciwhite]

I really don`t care if they hate us...

 

 

I think I speak for every single one of us!!

[asciwhite]

LOL

 

 

 

[krustybrand]

I used to be into reps quite heavily. I liked the modding process and the quest for the super rep. However, as my age has crept up (over 50 now) and my salary and standard of living has crept up, I haven't had a rep on my wrist in quite some time now. I'm not sure what it is. I've always looked many, many years younger than I am, so perhaps it's a desire to live up to what I feel others should perceive me as. I don't know. All I know is that the average person never notices a watch, and sure can't tell one brand from another, and probably would never know a rep if it was pointed out to them. Others just assume everything is fake. My wife has a closet full of Louis Vuitton purses and has been careful to buy ones she knows have not been repped, lest people assume hers are fake (she is also Chinese, and many young Chinese girls carry fake ones here). Same with my watches - my gens are all models that I don't think have been repped, at least not well.

 

Odd to peek into my own thoughts on the subject. I still like to spend time here just to see old acquaintances and see where things stand.

[danielv2000]

Gen or rep, most assume all Rolex and Louis Vuitton are fakes. Sometimes, I even wonder if the guy sitting next to me on the train or plane is wearing rep Dr. Dre Beats!

[chango]

Your Beats by Dre comments reminds us that EVERYTHING can be replicated.  You can get a Chinese made Pinarello Dogma bicycle frame for a fraction of what people pay for the real thing.  The Chinese are amazing--for good and bad, I guess.

 

When I'm not being fascinated by watches, I'm also an avid guitar player.  A few guys took some high-end Martin guitars to China, reverse engineered them and are now producing some pretty decent Chinese-made guitars.  However, like rep watches, the QC is not there.  Hit and miss.  I'm lucky though.  I bought a solid-wood guitar from China with identical Martin bracing and dimensions for less than 1/3 the price of a Martin.  And it sounds pretty damn good.  AND I'm not afraid to leave it out in the living room and have my son drop crayons or army men into the sound hole!!  My Martin, on the other hand, is hiding in a case under the bed. 

[Nanuq]

My Martin, on the other hand, is hiding in a case under the bed.

Heresy! Sacrilege! Oh man, put me out of my misery and PLAY that thing!!

[Arctos]

As I see it, there are two groups of people that are hated:

 

-- the ones who wave their rep around, going "Look at my expensive watch! Look how rich I am!"

 

-- the ones who try to sell a rep as a gen

 

If you don't fit in either of those groups, you don't have a problem 

[icoopernicus]

Yay, this topic is back, cool!

You have to be annoyed that the guy with the $300 Panerai REP gets exactly the same satisfaction from that watch that you get from your $8000 Submariner! So they bag on reps, their low quality and blatant flaws while they see reps everyday and have no idea that they are looking at anything less than a gen.

Ever see a rep/gen comparison video on Youtube, half of them have some guy holding a $30 street corner sub with a 21600 movement and a broken bezel up against a gen, they would crap themselves in the presence of a UPO straight out of the box, no mods! or a PAM005, hell even the questionable accuracy of the 116610 reps would blow them away. I don't feel better when I wear a gen over a rep and I don't feel better wearing a rep of a $10000 gen than I do when wearing an actual gen. I get the same satisfaction from all of my watches because I just like wearing nice watches and wearing reps allows me to wear many different watches, in many different styles without completely breaking the bank.

That said, Goddammmmm I need me that new Ceramic Planet Ocean! Oh and a Flyback Panerai Luminor, yeah yeah, that's the ticket! And I want a Calibre 17RS Grand Carrera, but that's all I need, as long as I get those I'm set. Those and maybe a new DateJust..... I think you get the picture.

Yay, this topic is back, cool!

You have to be annoyed that the guy with the $300 Panerai REP gets exactly the same satisfaction from that watch that you get from your $8000 Submariner! So they bag on reps, their low quality and blatant flaws while they see reps everyday and have no idea that they are looking at anything less than a gen.

Ever see a rep/gen comparison video on Youtube, half of them have some guy holding a $30 street corner sub with a 21600 movement and a broken bezel up against a gen, they would crap themselves in the presence of a UPO straight out of the box, no mods! or a PAM005, hell even the questionable accuracy of the 116610 reps would blow them away. I don't feel better when I wear a gen over a rep and I don't feel better wearing a rep of a $10000 gen than I do when wearing an actual gen. I get the same satisfaction from all of my watches because I just like wearing nice watches and wearing reps allows me to wear many different watches, in many different styles without completely breaking the bank.

That said, Goddammmmm I need me that new Ceramic Planet Ocean! Oh and a Flyback Panerai Luminor, yeah yeah, that's the ticket! And I want a Calibre 17RS Grand Carrera, but that's all I need, as long as I get those I'm set. Those and maybe a new DateJust..... I think you get the picture.

[dieselpower]

Firstly, I would like to say that there is no such thing as a fake watch that runs. If the watch has a movement that works and it tells the time then it is not a 'fake watch' it is a real, actual watch. That's just to the fools who look down on our wonderful hobby.

 

Now, I'd like to address the issue of honesty amongst the gen communiuty. For starters, as far as I can tell the VRF marketplace is infested with franken builders. Great, good luck to them but please don't start looking down your nose at the rep world! They are as guilty of replication as we are. I bet your average VRF franken builder wearing his perfectly formed (from various gen parts) Sub regards his watch as a genuine Rolex product, well I've got news for you - it's not. Only a watch that came out of the Rolex factory and has only ever been worked on by Rolex is a gen. If you have assembled a watch from various parts from various sources then you have made a frankenstein, which is only one step away from a rep. And, whilst we are on the subject what does a gen owner do if his watch breaks and the part required to make it work again is no longer available, at all, anywhere? Then he finds a company or individual who is manufacturing that part in the same material and to the same exacting standards as the original company did. Does he put the watch in his sock drawer and never wear it? No, of course not. He is perfectly within his rights to buy the (rep) part and enjoy his watch again, regardless of what others think. It's still a lovely watch, now it's a lovely watch that works. Good.

 

I own reps and gens. I prefer reps. I like the research and gathering of parts. I like the fact that financially, building reps opens up the availability of the pieces I really like to suit my budget. I like the fact that I can buy parts piece by piece thus spreading the cost rather than having to blow thousands in one hit. I like the fact that a decent rep is like sticking two finger up the the gen companies because I strongly suspect that their 'swiss made' pieces are far from 100% Swiss. 

 

 

“It is not generally known that quite a few Swiss companies have watches assembled in China for export to North America, Asia and even Europe, where the brand name is more important that the “Swiss made” label. Such watches may consist of a Chinese case and a Chinese crystal, a Taiwan-made dial and metal bracelet and Japanese hands. If the movement is to be considered Swiss, 51% of its value must be Swiss and at least the last wheel must be added in Switzerland. Swiss watch brands without the “Swiss made” label are usually equipped with a Japanese movement. The “Swiss parts” label means that the movement is assembled in Asia using kits consisting at least partially of Swiss made components.”

The Swiss law is quite complicated when it comes to what is swiss made and what is not - some say this is by design but it seems that if 50% of the value (note - value, not quantity) of the parts are made in switzerland and the movement is encased in Switzerland then you can legally call it a swiss made watch. So, if Rolex had parts for their movements made in China but 50% of the value of the total parts (ie a few expensive bits) were made in Switzerland and the movement was encased in Switzerland then you have got yourself a genuine Swiss Rolex. I'm sorry but that's not good enough for me. I'd rather be honest about a watch and say to whoever it may concern that I am a hobbyist who amasses parts and has his favourite watches built by skilled people and yes, they are real watches and yes they are waterproof and yes they keep excellent time and yes they will withstand the same amount of wear and abuse as one that came out of Rolex's swiss/chinese factories and yes they can cost thousands to make etc etc. Rant over...

[panerai153]

There are a lot of folks here on this forum who are gen owners. In fact I have at the moment 14 gens and 6 reps. there have been times when the numbers were reversed, and a few years ago, I sold all of my reps except 2 and only had gens.I got back into reps about 5-6 years ago, and for the most part have only modded/franken ones. Quite frankly, I have never worried about other people and what they thought about my watches either gen or rep. As Krusty said, at some point in your life you realize that no one cares, no one really knows, and unless you are working with a bunch of Rolex addicts, the average person can't tell a Rolex from a Timex. When you have that epiphany in your life where you quit worrying about what others think, or what others percieve, it is a truly refreshing feeling. I don't worry about fakes of anything. At my age  and my profession, I can carry off just about any watch, except for something like Nadal's Richard Mille!!!! My feelings are the folks who really look down on reps are probably for the most part, pretty vain shallow folks who are lacking in self confidence, and use their cars, clothes, watches, etc. as pretty lame attempts to be something they aren't. I know around here, back in the early 80's the Rolex Day Dates were very popular. We had a lot of people in the Oil and gas business, and wearing a Gold "President" was a symbol to everyone that "you had arrived". unfortunately, the price of oil and gas fell through hte floor, lots of the independents went under, and before long the pawn shops were full of Gold Day Dates!! I bet most of the guys who hocked their watches, realized after a while that the Seiko or Bulova  did just as good a job of keeping time, and that not a soul noticed that they were Rolexless!! 

 

One of the things that has gotten me a little more interested in Gens is some of the small makers like MKII and Ocean7 are producing some pretty neat watches at a very good price point. Another thing, the gens are easier to get worked on. Any competent watchmaker can take an ETA movement down and parts are readily available. Most of them are very water resistant right out the box, so you don't have to do anything to them except wear them.  

[simon05]

I was going to 'Like' this comment, but merely liking it wouldn't do it justice. You hit the nail on the head, iCoop. Ditto to Dieselpower & Panerai153. Well said gentlemen.

 

Yay, this topic is back, cool!

You have to be annoyed that the guy with the $300 Panerai REP gets exactly the same satisfaction from that watch that you get from your $8000 Submariner! So they bag on reps, their low quality and blatant flaws while they see reps everyday and have no idea that they are looking at anything less than a gen.

Ever see a rep/gen comparison video on Youtube, half of them have some guy holding a $30 street corner sub with a 21600 movement and a broken bezel up against a gen, they would crap themselves in the presence of a UPO straight out of the box, no mods! or a PAM005, hell even the questionable accuracy of the 116610 reps would blow them away. I don't feel better when I wear a gen over a rep and I don't feel better wearing a rep of a $10000 gen than I do when wearing an actual gen. I get the same satisfaction from all of my watches because I just like wearing nice watches and wearing reps allows me to wear many different watches, in many different styles without completely breaking the bank.

That said, Goddammmmm I need me that new Ceramic Planet Ocean! Oh and a Flyback Panerai Luminor, yeah yeah, that's the ticket! And I want a Calibre 17RS Grand Carrera, but that's all I need, as long as I get those I'm set. Those and maybe a new DateJust..... I think you get the picture.

Yay, this topic is back, cool!

You have to be annoyed that the guy with the $300 Panerai REP gets exactly the same satisfaction from that watch that you get from your $8000 Submariner! So they bag on reps, their low quality and blatant flaws while they see reps everyday and have no idea that they are looking at anything less than a gen.

Ever see a rep/gen comparison video on Youtube, half of them have some guy holding a $30 street corner sub with a 21600 movement and a broken bezel up against a gen, they would crap themselves in the presence of a UPO straight out of the box, no mods! or a PAM005, hell even the questionable accuracy of the 116610 reps would blow them away. I don't feel better when I wear a gen over a rep and I don't feel better wearing a rep of a $10000 gen than I do when wearing an actual gen. I get the same satisfaction from all of my watches because I just like wearing nice watches and wearing reps allows me to wear many different watches, in many different styles without completely breaking the bank.

That said, Goddammmmm I need me that new Ceramic Planet Ocean! Oh and a Flyback Panerai Luminor, yeah yeah, that's the ticket! And I want a Calibre 17RS Grand Carrera, but that's all I need, as long as I get those I'm set. Those and maybe a new DateJust..... I think you get the picture.

Edited February 22, 2013 by simon05

[cougar1]

The mother of all rep discussions on a gen forum just took place recently on tzeeuk,

 

forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?194583-are-all-fakes-as-crap-in-real-life

 

insane thread, good aspects and bad, great read in parts, some parts not so interesting....but if you're bored at work/want to really waste a few hours....knock yourselves out!

[speedy1969]

I agree with panerai153 100%. I myself, like him, am the proud owner of a number of gen pieces, and I have owned some reps in the past as well. Unfortunately, as has been said time and time again, the people who [censored]-off reps and are all for "gen" pieces are all about the look. The fact of the whole matter is that the majority of people who buy the big names like Rolex, Omega, and Breitling don't buy these watches for themselves, but rather for everyone around them to admire and gock at. Let's think about this for a minute. What is the first name that comes to mind with respect to the average person....... "ROLEX." It really is that simple, and I'll prove it. Just look at how many Americans in the United States today sport a Rolex on their wrist. They're everywhere! Even your friendly-neighborhood gas station attendent has one. I can't even begin to tell you all how many times I've started conversation with patients and other doctors in my medical clinic about their time-pieces and find through the conversation that they really do know absolutely NOTHING other than how much their watch cost and the fact that it carries the BIG name.  In many respects I think it's quite sad really. To be a TRUE enthusiast means being able to enjoy and appreciate a well-made and beautiful piece, regardless of where it was made or how expensive it is. And of course, the most important part of that is buying a watch because you TRULY enjoy it. A watch is meant to be enjoyed. We all know that these fine genuine pieces are, for the most part, very expensive and in many cases even impractical. The fact is, why pay thousands of dollars for a piece that today can be replicated almost to the T of the original for only a couple hundred bucks. I mean lets be honest here, with today's quality and accuracy, not to mention quest for perfection, these reps offer it all, and surely they will only get better and better as time goes on. I own 4 gen pieces from Rolex, Breitling, and Omega, and just those 4 pieces alone have cost me over 40k.... and as such, they spend more time in the box and in the safe then on the wrist. The point is simple. Forget about what people think because those that [censored] off anything other then the gen pieces are A. either upset they spent so much B. Can't manage their money C. Really don't know anything about watches and just want to show off

 

Almost everyone on this forum (including myself) is here because we are all aficionados in our own wright and truly love, respect, and appreciate the time and effort that goes into making a quality time-piece. It really says something about each and every one of us in terms of character, so the next time you come across someone who slags off reps on the premise that they are not gen and don't cost nearly as much, just realize that you're probably talking to Kim Kardashian, and walk out of there with your head high, at the very least because you have VALUE for yourself and wear that particular piece for nobody other than YOU! Wear it well and enjoy. At the end, nobody really can tell a gen from a good rep these days anyway; even with the gen side by side. If you're worried about what others think, you're on the wrong forum and you're doing it all for the wrong reasons. After all, nobody is really impressed with a "household" name like Rolex anymore. As i said, in some states, 1 in 3 americans has one. It's just that simple.

[ugimartinez]

I agree completely with speedy1969 and panerai153!

Owning several gens (2 Rolex, 2 Breitling and 1 Tag, and going for a speedmaster ) and several reps (Rolex, IWC, Audemars, Bvlgari), I completely understand the reason to acquire either a rep or a gen. 

I do not have all the money in the world to spend on watches, so why wait until I gather several hundred/thousand dollars to have a watch I like if I can spend a couple of hundred?

People who criticize the use/purchase of reps are those who wear their watches to show off, not because they like watches. They want people to notice they are wearing an expensive watch, and they are afraid of wearing a rep because someone might notice and their top-notch-executive image goes to the trash.

I like to wear watches for my own joy, and I found that a rep gives me almost the same 'thrill' that a gen. Obviously, as a watch collector/enthusiast I only buy well built replicas.

 

One must enjoy owning and wearing a watch, and what it's great about reps that you can wear them anywhere and anytime.

I live in Argentina, where security is cause for concern, so I do not fancy walking around with an USD8.000 watch on my wrist on every occasion.

If security weren't an issue, I also limit the times I wear my gens, because I really don't like them to be scratched or anything.

So, where I most enjoy my genuine watches is at home, where I clean them and admire their craftsmanship, precision, and all that stuff that make them worth so much (apart from marketing and R&D).

 

This forum is awesome, because it's full of members who really love watches and share my passion.

 

Thank you all! 

Edited April 9, 2013 by ugimartinez

[lloyd]

I have gens, but I like the challenge of building a good rep. I have a mill and lathe to work on the cases. I bought a pantograph engraver to do my own engraving. I have a tig welder to build up lugs and such. I enjoy the quest of making a great rep. Maybe one day I will make the "perfect one"   I guess it is an addiction.

[wooky492]

My short 2 cents..

People who worked hard to climb the ladder of social status and enjoy humble life usually don't have any grudge against...say owning replica watches. 

People who happened to be born into wealth or high life usually have grudge because they feel their special privileges are being stolen. 

My brother is a successful dentist who owns two clinics.. I'm a Lawyer in training + commercial pilot + O.D.  We both own few gen watches but we both love our reps.

I sort of understand where they are coming from but I'd rather buy, say 10 reps instead of 10 gens and enjoy them while investing savings on really worthwhile projects such as building schools for impoverished parts of the world. Now I think that is true measure of your status.

[atomic_doug]

I think that gen owners hate rep owners because the rep owners have something that the gen owners can possibly never have.

 

I have had the opportunity to compare my rep Panerai 5218-201/A to a gen 'in the metal'.  The results were very good.  There were minor differences, but nothing gruesomely out of tolerance (and pre-V Panerai is pretty notorious about its level of consistency anyway).

 

The gen's owner was impressed with my work, content that his was gen.  Another friend of mine who was there at the time and is an adamant rep-hater was not so pleased until we realized he was upset because he was envious.  He would never own a gen pre-V Panerai and felt that I somehow got around that because mine looked so close and had the exact same movement as the gen.

 

Instead of just pining away for something we can never have, the rep community asks "why not?" and gets to work fabricating parts.

[Nanuq]

Another aspect not mentioned yet.... I'm here in Hawaii wearing my Big Dazza 6538 and spending all day in the water with it. I know these really are dive watches but nobody in their right mind would take a gen swimming anymore. Now I get to see how a vintage Sub looks and feels underwater.

[ressmeplz]

Another aspect not mentioned yet.... I'm here in Hawaii wearing my Big Dazza 6538 and spending all day in the water with it. I know these really are dive watches but nobody in their right mind would take a gen swimming anymore. Now I get to see how a vintage Sub looks and feels underwater.

I've always took my gen divers in the water