rrari1 Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 In 1996, Australia banned semi-automatics. In the 18 years before, there were 13 mass shootings. Since then, none. The crazy knife wielding man in china attacked 22 people, but none died. There is a fairly high correlation between the rate of fire and the number of deaths in these situations. I like guns, I used to hunt in my teenage years, but I would never keep a gun in the house with my child, and I would never consider sending my child to a school where there are armed guards, as some people suggest. That is absolute madness. Some interesting stats in the following graphic for those who feel more guns are necessary, how many additional guns would be needed to bring down the deaths in the USA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vafarmer70 Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 In 1996, Australia banned semi-automatics. In the 18 years before, there were 13 mass shootings. Since then, none. The crazy knife wielding man in china attacked 22 people, but none died. There is a fairly high correlation between the rate of fire and the number of deaths in these situations. I like guns, I used to hunt in my teenage years, but I would never keep a gun in the house with my child, and I would never consider sending my child to a school where there are armed guards, as some people suggest. That is absolute madness. Some interesting stats in the following graphic for those who feel more guns are necessary, how many additional guns would be needed to bring down the deaths in the USA? How old is that graphic? It says WEST GERMANY, not Germany. Having been in both EAST and WEST Germany in the late 80s, I have not seen that referenced since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 I agree that this is not the time or place to discuss gun legislation and the gun control.This is a time to pay our respects to those tiny little children and their teachers who were needlessly struck down by this mentally deranged 20 year old. who knows why he did it, perhaps over time the police will be able to piece together his motives and inner torment that drove him to kill his own mother, steal her guns ,drive her car to the school and methodically cut down little children at point blank range. My heart goes out to the familes of everyone involved. For the famiies of those slain as well as the other children who witnessed the slaughter of their little friends and classmates. this will be a pretty bleak Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seafoam Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 OMG!!! This is so focked!!! @whoever im with you mate, guns kill people i dont care what anyone says its a fact!!! Z, i agree with both of you but it's more than just gun control. How about making mental health treatment more available and affordable first of all and secondly accurately diagnosing people with serious mental health issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 Not in Canada my friend. And the constitution was written long ago. The right to carry guns was meant to protect the population from wildlife and hostile natives. Its stupid to keep harping on about the stupid constitution. Its outdated!! Are the aspects of the constitution which allow freedom of speech, prevent a person from being forced to incriminate themselves or be subjected to 'cruel and unusual punishment' also outdated? This is a tragedy, no doubt, as with the other two shootings which occurred in the US yesterday. But. Preventing people from legally owning firearms will not completely prevent things like this happening. Since private ownership of handguns in the UK got banned, sure, no one's been able to walk into a school and go postal, but there have still been gun crimes. A student was still murdered by illegal firearm a year ago, so the ban on handguns did nothing to prevent that person's death. CT state law says that no one under 21 should have any kind of access to pistols (other than at a firing range) so to me, that says that handgun owners (especially those with children) should be held to a higher standard of securing their firearms at home. No more leaving a loaded .45 in the desk drawer, or even a key locker, but a code-entry safe which the child is never to be given the code to (and in circumstances like this, the parent should then be punished for improper storage of the weapons and as an accessory to the crime) By definition, criminals do not obey the law. There are laws against murder, yet is is still committed. Changing the law on handgun ownership will only impact and disarm the law abiding, not criminals... Allowing a constitutional right, any constitutional right, to be taken away, is opening the door for any and all constitutional rights to be taken away. (Effectively what the American Government has been trying to do for the past decade, but that's another kettle of fish...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vafarmer70 Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 Allowing a constitutional right, any constitutional right, to be taken away, is opening the door for any and all constitutional rights to be taken away. (Effectively what the American Government has been trying to do for the past decade, but that's another kettle of fish...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 And that kettle of fish is getting really rancid. Indeed, it is. As someone raised on American imports, I always loved America as a child, always wanted to live there, and I still do, but the erosion of civil liberties in the name of 'security', truly terrifies me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselpower Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 If gun ownership is such a good thing, why not make it compulsary? Let's make it illegal for all persons aged say, 17 and above, to step foot outside their door without carrying a firearm. Good idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 If gun ownership is such a good thing, why not make it compulsary? Let's make it illegal for all persons aged say, 17 and above, to step foot outside their door without carrying a firearm. Good idea? About as good idea as insisting that any 17 year old be given access to a car with no formal training... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vafarmer70 Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 If gun ownership is such a good thing, why not make it compulsary? Let's make it illegal for all persons aged say, 17 and above, to step foot outside their door without carrying a firearm. Good idea? Comments like this, are the reason there is never a reasonable discussion on these things. Try it in YOUR country and let me know how it works for you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 Comments like this, are the reason there is never a reasonable discussion on these things. Try it in YOUR country and let me know how it works for you. Our government caved to the demands of a vocal campaigner riding on the coat-tails of a school massacre and banned private ownership of handguns I think the way things are going currently in the UK, if firearms were more easily available, I think Samantha Cameron would be a widow... (I would say I'm surprised that no one's gone Day of the Jackal on David Cameron, but as he's only a glove puppet for the real power, I suspect most people know that taking him out would change nothing, so no point in contracting a professional to do the job...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 It has been postulated that we yanks have a love affair with guns (yes we do like them) but the real love affair is with our rights & freedoms. Yes the cost is sometimes unbearable in any rational mind ( i question my position constantly in my mind after such a tragedy), it is a high price we pay in the blood of the brave on the battle and the lose of innocents at home. At what cost freedom is the question. I can neither guarantee freedom with guns in hand nor stop such acts with them being outlawed. I do however guarantee that without them eventually we will be at the mercy of the governments ever expanding role constantly eroding our freedom and also that the criminals & deranged will find a why to get them or use other means to do harm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldegeneve Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) ^Epic win. This article sums it up pretty well. NEWTOWN, CT—Following today’s mass shooting that left 20 young children dead at a Connecticut elementary school, numerous sources across the country reported that their government-protected right to own a portable device that propels small masses of metal through the air at lethal rates of speed is completely worth any such consequences. “It’s my God-given right and a founding principle of this country that I be able to own a [piece of metal that launches other smaller pieces of metal great distances, one after the other], and if a few deaths here and there is the price we have to pay for that freedom, then so be it,” said Lawrence Crane of nearby Danbury, CT, who is such a staunch advocate of the portable deadly-pellet-flinging apparatuses that he keeps multiple versions of such mechanisms in his home, often carries one with him, and is a member of a club whose sole purpose is to celebrate these assembled steel things and the small bits of metal they send flying. “Sure, it’s sad that a few kids died, but it’s far better than the tyranny that would result if the government came and took away all our [mechanical contraptions that make a lot of little pointy chunks of metal go through the air fast]. Can you even imagine what kind of horrible world that would be?” The man added that if the events that unfolded today led lawmakers to question his ability to possess any such items of steel and lead, authorities would have to “pry the [wholly inanimate mechanical object, nothing more, nothing less] from [his] dead hands.” http://www.theonion.com/articles/right-to-own-handheld-device-that-shoots-deadly-me,30742/ Edited December 16, 2012 by ldegeneve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vafarmer70 Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 In reference to that idiot, and his rambling see my previous comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 From the Onion, no need to go further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoever Posted December 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 It has been postulated that we yanks have a love affair with guns (yes we do like them) but the real love affair is with our rights & freedoms. Yes the cost is sometimes unbearable in any rational mind ( i question my position constantly in my mind after such a tragedy), it is a high price we pay in the blood of the brave on the battle and the lose of innocents at home. At what cost freedom is the question. I can neither guarantee freedom with guns in hand nor stop such acts with them being outlawed. I do however guarantee that without them eventually we will be at the mercy of the governments ever expanding role constantly eroding our freedom and also that the criminals & deranged will find a why to get them or use other means to do harm. ahhhh, it's the communists knocking on your door again right? and yes, they eat their children at christmas.....true....so same same like ones say...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vafarmer70 Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 ahhhh, it's the communists knocking on your door again right? and yes, they eat their children at christmas.....true....so same same like ones say...... Where do you get this crap? Who is the they you refer to that said "communists eat their children" ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoever Posted December 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 its ironic mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vafarmer70 Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 My heart goes out to the families who are not having a good Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrari1 Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 Even if the graphic I posted is out of date, the stats have probably not changed much. From a recent New Yorker article I read that the United States is the country with the highest rate of civilian gun ownership in the world. (The second highest is Yemen, where the rate is nevertheless only half that of the U.S.) No civilian population is more powerfully armed. Most Americans do not, however, own guns, because three-quarters of people with guns own two or more. Those who are arguing for even more guns in order to somehow reduce gun violence, are making a fairly thin argument Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/04/23/120423fa_fact_lepore#ixzz2FF9Kl7dr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 My heart goes out to the families who are not having a good Sunday. Unfortunately there will not be a "good Sunday" or any other day, for these families, for many many years to come. There will never again be a merry Christmas. My family was victim to a triple homicide and no holiday has been "merry" since then. It tears the heart right out of the season. My prayers go to these poor people on this day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 "ahhhh, it's the communists knocking on your door again right?" Straw man arguments will avail you not, you dismiss my position with satire. Better go write for that rag the onion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldegeneve Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) Mike, let's compare your position with the one highlighted in the Onion. At what cost freedom is the question. I can neither guarantee freedom with guns in hand nor stop such acts with them being outlawed. I do however guarantee that without them eventually we will be at the mercy of the governments ever expanding role constantly eroding our freedom and also that the criminals & deranged will find a why to get them or use other means to do harm. "Sure, it’s sad that a few kids died, but it’s far better than the tyranny that would result if the government came and took away all our guns. Can you even imagine what kind of horrible world that would be?” Hm. Edited December 16, 2012 by ldegeneve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 One gives the position merit and supports it with the writers opinion (me), the other is typical onion fair looking to degrade the position by quoting (I gather, who knows) a very base interpretation in the form of the lowest common denominator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 You do realize that the US Government is eroding your freedom, don't you? Concentration camps I mean FEMA camps are being set up all over the US, in preparation for what? More artificially created freak weather conditions? The Patriot Act for example, is just being used as a means of spying on the populace. Maybe it's more observable from here in the 51st State, but the way things're going on the Main Land, within a decade, I can see there being a situation where the reasons for the 2nd Amendment will become all too obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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