So do guys want to avoid being scammed?

[PeteM]

I have like most guys here been reading a few threads about guys getting scammed or mis-sold watches and services etc and the question I guess most of us ask is how could this happen on such a great forum like this ?

 

 

I thought that myself and I would like to think that I am savvy enough to avoid those same pitfalls that most guys seem to have in those threads... I am sure most us do think that...

 

But it can happen..it happens in life and outside this forum in all sorts of ways..

 

So I thought ...Would it help if there was a sticky thread setting out guidelines or advice..I even thought maybe I should write one and post it and guys could add points or improve points I made and together we could create something that would help ..maybe

 

But then I thought if I did that then it would need to be short and concise and readable and indeed read...

 

So if you consider all that you end up realising that you cannot do that and be certain that your aim in writing it will be of any use....

 

The fact is - There is plenty of good advice and info already here on this forum and in addition elsewhere .... from advice to buying on ebay or on other forums and generally on the web...plus most importantly simple common sense..

 

It is like guys moaning that dealers links are wrong and 'we' can be scammed...but surely if you have read the advice and you know how this game is legally speaking then you would know from common sense that they would change regularly so its reasonable to do a check that the link is current especially if you then look at dates of threads etc..

 

So IMHO the idea of a guide is pretty pointless...

 

I say that because... as most of us can see most new guys really dont read the info already available on the forum so why would they read a guide?

 

You can see that most new guys just post a thread or question that has been asked a dozen times before and in most cases dont even post it in the correct section so clearly they havent as they claim searched... maybe they might do better to ask how to search rather than ask the question they do.. as the search tool does take some getting used to especially in terms of what you ask it to search....

 

But then you consider guys that say I aint new.. I aint a noob... what about me?

 

But the truth is we are all noobs ....its just we are noobs in different areas...for example if I wanted a Rolex I would be a noob ..if i wanted to buy an IWC I would be a noob.... it goes on for all of us... you see so many guys with say a year here referring to noobs... but they are just a noob as those guys...we all are in different ways... I still considered myself a noob after a few years here... and for the most part I still am a noob...

 

If you have only bought one watch or 3 watches you are a noob... if you have only sold one watch or 5 watches you are still a noob..... if you get my point?

 

If you ahve been here 5 years or 2 months you can be a noob..if you have 5 posts or 6000 posts you can still be a noob...

 

Your feedback or length of membership or post count entitles you to expect nothing and nor should you... and no one dealing with a guy based on that alone should use that to judge them either...

 

Even now I still read stuff that was stickied for new guys... it helps and in turn I use it to move me forward..it isnt always the answer but it sends me in the right direction to get the answer...it requires me to use my own head and take it forward..it is not there as the onladvice needed..it is to guide and get you on the right wavelength to investigate more..

 

Even now as I write this I know most guys wont read this or read it through as its too long and wordy... most guys that will already know the score or most of it when it comes to these sorts of issues..

 

 

 

The truth is any of us can get scammed..its just the more experienced you are the more experienced the scammer needs to be....

 

 

We can make all the guidelines, scamlists and advice we want..but if no one reads it or takes the basic advice and uses their own initiative to use that and take it forward then scammers will continue to succeed...

 

 

Then if you factor in the reasons why we get scammed...

 

With money you get scammed because you are greedy... that is a fact..it is your greed that feeds a scam and its success...

 

 

Its very similar in the rep game..

 

 

If you are a seller...and you need to sell to buy your next wish list rep..and the watch isnt budging and been there a while then you are more easily caught in a scam ...same if you are trading etc etc

 

If you are a buyer you see a watch you really want ..you want to be first to get it and not miss it then you are more easily scammed..same as if its a great price or its a rare piece etc etc

 

Because of that you dont necessarily follow the considered approach...to do your due diligence, check feedback, here elsewhere (other forums etc), ask suitable questions, get to know the seller/buyer, consider location (customs risks, Shipping risks etc), consider methods of payment, (PP with fees never as gift or Bankwire)... etc etc... and if any of these questions raise a concern then you should really dig back into everything again..not just that part of your concern..

 

For example... someone may say they want it as gift... that immediately should make you question everything...not just the payment...

 

If that still leaves some uncertainty then contact members, post a feedback reference question here or elsewhere...

 

And ultimately if you have any doubt dont buy it dont sell it..... because even though you may have doubt ultimately it is that 'greed' part of you that is allowing yourself to be open to being scammed and no amount of advice or guidelines is going to help you avoid that...

[denimhead]

Lots of good advise Pete, the only point i'd like to add is - 

ALWAYS BUY THE SELLER, in other words if the member or Dealer has lots of positive feedback, regularly posts on the forum and seems to be an honest lot, then you stand a chance of getting what your buying.Just remember your not buying a Gen, you can't go knocking on Goldsmiths door because a hands fallen off. Which of course they do on Gens too   

[PeteM]

Lots of good advise Pete, the only point i'd like to add is - 

ALWAYS BUY THE SELLER, in other words if the member or Dealer has lots of positive feedback, regularly posts on the forum and seems to be an honest lot, then you stand a chance of getting what your buying.Just remember your not buying a Gen, you can't go knocking on Goldsmiths door because a hands fallen off. Which of course they do on Gens too   

 

 

I think that is a great adage mate and very true when buying anything....I avoided using it in my thread as it is a bit harder if you are new or inexperienced..and although it is good advice its not something that you can do so easily in this game...

 

It is almost like there is no answer or easy method..... it is more like there are a series of indicators (or maybe checkboxes if you like) and it is important to learn to recognise those indicators..indicators can be good they can be bad... and can never be considered on thier own but as a larger consideration... its like a trail you follow it and if anything doesnt seem right then you stop you go back and check your tracks... then you decide whether to move on again or end the trail there... the problem is sometimes we see that something aint right but we keep moving forward because we are being pushed by that 'greed' or excitement maybe.. but you know what I mean I hope..

 

 

my main point was that with reps we seem to forget that becaue of that 'greed' factor or excitement if you like... I know when buying gens...you get the time to do that and discuss watches and the watch etc etc and almost build up a rapport with the guy... to the point you usually stay in contact after the deal is done etc

 

[Uberscreamer]

All very good points in the above posts Pete!  It is important as with any dealing with strangers in this life (and let's be honest, even

 

though we talk to each other on this forum, unless we live close enough to hang out on a semi-regular basis, none of us really know

 

each other) to make sure that we are cautious and use the little bit of common sense that each of us possess.  We do this when

 

dealing face to face with salesmen or even regular people on the streets.  If we feel that something is off, most of us will think twice

 

about what we are doing and will come back to the 'deal' at a later time.  Why should dealing online be any different for us?  And

 

yet, as you and many have stated over the last few months (with each time one of us gets taken for the fool), the excitement of the

 

game gets to some of us and we jump at a 'good' deal before we can fully process just how far we have dug in, only to find

 

ourselves disappointed that we allowed ourselves to be duped.  We should do our best to help each other in this illicit hobby that we

 

have found ourselves in, but also need to keep in mind that the same people that would allow themselves to be taken by a scam

 

face to face will just do the same online, and there is no helping laziness or stupidity...   

 

 

To the Noobs in each of us, in any sense of the word, 'Do your research, ask questions, and buy the buyer before the product.'  Such actions will keep us as safe and happy as can be in this hobby, so long as we remember that we are still dealing with fakes, lol.

[martijnp]

Good points guys! Just a tip if you sell or buy a watch. When you send/receive the package you should film the process so if they say it's broken or whatsoever you can prove how you send/received the watch.

I make always a little video when i'm unpacking a watch or something else I ordered via internet

[kernow]

Wise words as always from some experienced members. I for one was scammed because I was "greedy", well actually it was because the watch never comes up for sale and is discontinued with our TD's. So, when it became available, I had to take the chance. The guy was selling to others and has some good feedback, even then I paid the PayPal fees as he wouldn't. Was I nieve: no, trusting and willing to take the chance: yes. I think what I learned was as has been said before, buy the seller, and never use PayPal gift.

[PeteM]

I hope guys see I am not blaming anyone if they have been...TBH most of us have... in this game it happens...moreso years back and a lot of guys found their way here after being scammed themselves...

 

I hate to use the word "greed" but I cant think of another way of encompassing the ethos of the nature of a successful scammer.... any scammer relies on the guy he is scamming to be "greedy" for what ever is on offer beit a watch or a million quid from a Nigerian bank account..etc .

 

You can know many things and read everything and still get had over.... to avoid it... just do all you can to know as much as you can...and most of that info and advice that gives the basics is here already... the rest follows from that.. but its important that everyone never assumes anything and does all they can to satisfy themselves whether they are the seller or the buyer..it goes both ways and it is so important to remember that...

 

And most importantly if in any doubt ... any doubt whatsoever ...dont do it...

 

Maybe just set your own rules and say.. for example whether buying or selling..

 

I wont deal with anyone I dont know or know of or cant check with others I know here that know him

I wont deal with any one with less than one year of active use on the forum

I wont deal with anyone with feedback of less than 5 or wont deal with anyone with any negative FB etc

 

If you give yourself a set of personal rules and stick to them and then follow the advice set out on the forums ... then you may well avoid the possibility of being a victim of anyone out to fool you.

[Camaro]

Good points guys! Just a tip if you sell or buy a watch. When you send/receive the package you should film the process so if they say it's broken or whatsoever you can prove how you send/received the watch.

I make always a little video when i'm unpacking a watch or something else I ordered via internet

 

GREAT piece of advice here. I do this when buying member to member.

[astonjenks]

Well Said Pete

 

Unfortunately the male species of the Human Race tend not to actually 'Read' the instructions before putting that cabinet together or something similar. Common sense should prevail, however is not always called upon. My comment on DD, due diligence the other day when a new member scammed several members, a couple of well known members was a case in point when the new member joined here and started selling several watches, all were bought and none arrived, I'm unsure of the total amount, however believe it was in excess of $1k, $1 is too much!

MY ADVICE IS ALWAYS CHECK OUT THE SELLER, READ THEIR FEEDBACK

 

How recent is it, how many posts, how many feedback, i have even contacted a member that dealt with a seller i was unsure of and he warned me of the transaction and i avoided doing a deal that was likely to go wrong. All very easy if as Pete says, contain your greed and make sure you are comfortable with what your doing and with whom.

AJ

[PeteM]

Thank you...

 

But as I expected the guys here replying are all wise enough and ugly enough to know the basic pitfalls...

 

Unfortunately for every guy that may read this or  good info here on the forum and available.. there are many more that wont and then further down the line we will see another thread or hear of another issue...

[fraggle42]

In my current FS threads I've stipulated that buyers should have > 200 posts and have been a member for at least a year or can get a regular to vouch for them.

A bit cheeky as I've not quite been here a year myself, but like all of these things theyre flexible, and are there just so I can be sure they're not a fly by night new member out to scam people. Any long term membership on any forum is valid as far as I'm concerned (they need to prove that account is them obviously)

It's annoying to have to do, and probably tees off more than one new member and loses a few possible sales but I'm not in a hurry, someone will come along eventually.