ZainoDetail Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Since I joined this forum a 127 has always been on my list of watches that I want but I've never gotten around to getting one. Now that I'm looking I'm finding there are still several versions each with good and bad traits. I've narrowed the field to 3 all with similar pricing...give me your feedback. 1) Perfect clones - I've ordered every single one of my reps through Josh and have zero complaints. His version has the swan neck regulator but no super lume and it has the recessed pin issue. 2) Trusty Time - Again Swan neck regulator, recessed pin issue, BUT has super lume on the dial 3) Davidsen - From all I read davidsen's watches are outstanding. This watch does not suffer from a recessed pin issue and has super lume on the dail. The drawback being no swan neck regulator. I'm leaning towards the Davidsen watch right now because the swan neck in my eyes is rarely seen. Just wanted some feedback to see if you guys think I'm making the right choice or if there are other important things that I'm overlooking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBoy Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Don't forget EL's perfect 127! Almost perfect movement - saphire front and back with light AR. Fully functional Swan Neck. BUT cannon pin needs to be fixed and could use a good re-lume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Puretime has the ultimate 127 with superlume, fixed pin, swan-neck movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZainoDetail Posted December 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 (edited) Looks like I missed PureTime's 127 as well. The Pure time Model looks to have everything addressed. Any comments on this version? Edited December 4, 2006 by ZainoDetail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBoy Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I'm no expert - but I've been reading on PAM127's myself a lot recently - and it seems that the Puretime version has the E0581 case. I've read that this case is completely wrong. And that the dial is way off too (font and colour). Can anyone comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madonna Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Don't forget that EL's 127 is the only one at the moment that have the updated swan neck movement with much better engraving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section8 Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Excuse my Panerai ignorance, but what is the canon pin issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Don't forget that EL's 127 is the only one at the moment that have the updated swan neck movement with much better engraving. This is a good pont to making the back look a lot better, the engraving on this movement with the smaller font helps a hell of a lot. on the down side it lacks the correct swans neck. It doeas have the correct escarpment bridge as opposrd to the [censored] fond on some works with the correct swans neck. The canon pin loos to be only slightly recessed and that is a good point i could personaly live with that. E0117 case by the looks of it as well (i personaly have the E0581 and dont have a problem apart from the crystal i broke) your choice correct adjuster or engraving seams to be the big question here for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warburg Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I bought one of these monsters more than a year ago but wore it only a few times. It's awkward, heavy, and looks like a clock on even a large wrist. I have three other pams (001, 111, and 036), and even thought the 127 is only 3 mm larger, that seems to be over the limit for both comfort and appearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZainoDetail Posted December 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Great feedback guys. Kepp the comments coming. If I were to puchase one right now I think that Dadivsen might get my business Despite his movement not having a swan neck regulator at all. I can count the number of times that I've actually taken my 212 off to show it to someone to where the back would even be seen which Is why I'd rather have the super lume and propre canon pin than the more correct engravings and swan neck on the back of the case. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highflyingclive Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I think that David Sen builds watches to order. So ask him to build you one with the swan-neck movement - and any other goodies that you may want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M5Man Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Excuse my Panerai ignorance, but what is the canon pin issue? The cannon pin, the center pic that holds the hour and minute hands on, is too short. There is a fix, The Zigmeister and a few other can do it. Longer pin needs to be installed, hands cut down a bit, etc. One of the things that the Paneristi look for in reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarks Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 If I were to get a 127, EL's best 127 would be the one I get. And then do a canon pin job and a relume followed by Davidsen's AR glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spock Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 this is Davids fiddy. enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epanoui Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 I was in your position a month ago, and made the wrong choice, so I'll let you know what I learned throughout the process. 1st thing you have to know is the choice is ONLY between EL's and Davidsen's. I won't discuss Joshua's, Andrew's or Angus' because they all have two many errors to even be in my consideration. Also, Andrew and Joshua seem to get their watches from the same dealer, just FYI. I went with Davidsen's primarily because I thought it was the closest to the Gen. The pictures I found on his photo album seemed to be really close to the gen, except one thing, it was missing the swan neck. However, when I began to ask him questions, he swore up and down that it does have the swan neck, so I went ahead with the purchase. I was a little dissatisfied with it once it arrived and here are the reasons. 1. The movement does indeed have the swan neck, but it doesn't look like the one from the photo album at all. It's the newer H series movement with the special beveled bridges instead of the engraved bridges. So, any idiot practically can look at the watch and tell there's something seriously wrong. A huge error IMO. 2. Davidsen's font on the Fiddy is wrong. The text that says "LUMINOR PANERAI" and "1950" is too thin. It's a slight difference, but very noticeable once you have it in hand and are comparing it with pictures of the gen. The typeface weight should almost match the dial markers, but instead it is significantly lighter giving it a totally different appearance. 3. This probably doesn't apply to all his Fiddy's, it could have just been a mistake, but mine had a totally wrong caseback. First, it says 117/1000 which is wrong, since they made 1950 of these models, not 1000. Also, even if you get the 117/1950 caseback, the text 117/1950 has a small brushed background to it and the text is inset in that. This is completely off from the gen. The limited # on the gen is just engraved like the rest of the text on the caseback. 4. Davidsen is known for his good lume, but somehow my lume is mediocre. Not what I expected at all. This is after being outside all day. Can't see it? Me neither. So, at the end, I ended up with a watch that pretty much screams "fake." HOWEVER, and it's a big however, Davidsen's quality is unmatched. The case is amazing, the crystal is the correct 2mm thick crystal, the AR is great, the hands are perfect, the pin is not recessed at all, crown and crown guard feel great, etc... So, even though the watch is totally far off from the gen, it is a completely outstanding made watch. Eddie Lee's Fiddy doesn't have most of these issues. His font is correct, the movement engraving is near perfect, etc... The only things wrong with his are: 1. The recessed pin problem. 2. Less than stellar lume. 3. Some inconsistancies with the swan neck. 4. There has been some rumors that the movement, while a base swiss, has a lot of swapped parts, etc.. (so kind a thrown together). 5. Thinner crystal. Note that almost every single one of these problems has a simply fix. My plan is to within the next couple months, get EL's best Fiddy and then send both of mine off to The Zigmeister so he can mix and match both of them into 1 ultimate Fiddy. So, back to your question, if I was looking for one now, which one would I get? EL's for sure. Then I would order a crystal from Davidsen. Then I'd send the watch off to The Zigmeister to get the crystal put in, the pin fixed and get a nice lume job. Then you have the best Fiddy available, by far. EDIT: Updated with some pictures for clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarks Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Good one Joshua. Thanks for your detailed input. IMO Davidsen is good for certain parts like AR fiddy glass, canon pin, etc but in terms of watches my opinion differs. Not dissing Davidsen as I think he is a GREAT asset to our community and he tries very HARD to deliver quality goods to the masses but I think in terms of dial font quality as well as Panerai watch SS casing goes, I would stick to older reps from the rest of our dealers. Another thing tho, I have seen Davidsen's Radiomir ceramic case and that is one hell of a mod. Big thumbs up to that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvt Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Wow, what a GREAT post Joshua, thanks. The detail you went into is AWESOME and you laid it out in a very organized and clear manner. THIS is the exact type of info that makes the board interesting and helpful. It was nto just bias info through rose colored glasses to your favorite dealer or anything like that. Just a GREAT post, in fact, though niche, maybe post of the month in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Joshua, Excellent Post! Great job... Thank You! -MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baltic Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 If I were to get a 127, EL's best 127 would be the one I get. And then do a canon pin job and a relume followed by Davidsen's AR glass. That's exactly what I've done, except I'm not getting a new crystal as EL's is sapphire and I'm not that much of a WIS to notice if it's 0.5mm too thin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBoy Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 1. The movement does indeed have the swan neck, but it doesn't look like the one from the photo album at all. It's the newer H series movement with the special beveled bridges instead of the engraved bridges. So, any idiot practically can look at the watch and tell there's something seriously wrong. A huge error IMO. 3. This probably doesn't apply to all his Fiddy's, it could have just been a mistake, but mine had a totally wrong caseback. First, it says 117/1000 which is wrong, since they made 1950 of these models, not 1000. Also, even if you get the 117/1950 caseback, the text 117/1950 has a small brushed background to it and the text is inset in that. This is completely off from the gen. The limited # on the gen is just engraved like the rest of the text on the caseback. From your pics and description - it looks like you got a PAM217 - and not a 127. At least the case, back and movement are from a 217. Perhaps the dial was just swapped in? Also - I could be wrong - but it's my understanding that the Swan Neck is simply the little adjuster dial on the movement. I've taken your photo and circled the Swan Neck in yellow. So - even though your watch has the incorrect bridges - it still has a Swan Neck - no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usil Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 (edited) Josh, what a great explanation - very clear and thought out. The Fiddy is one of my favorite watches and if anyone ever put all of this together I would buy another one. Maybe some of the dealers can ask for an upgrade model to be made. Usil Edited December 5, 2006 by Usil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spock Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Great review Josua but be aware all modifications costs a lot of money. Total costs, watch and mods about usd 650 - 700? Also it's tricky. Lumejob,pin job a lot of things can go wrong. I know some people are looking for the perfect rep but for me a rep is a rep. I will never spend 600 dollars for a simple rep. Why should you, it's a rep???? There is one thing what i will never understand the search for a movement with swanneck. All swan neck rep movements look terrible. You can not compare a rep swanneck movement with the orginal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrnixon Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Thanks Joshua for a very detailed description. I am not so concerned with the minor estetical differences between a gen and a rep, but rather the quality of the watch, so my main goal is to get a watch that does not break, the crystal does not crack etc. Based on my preferences, would you recomend Davidsen if I want a watch of good quality which will last for a long time? Also I would like to ask you, where can I find Davidsen? I keep reading his name but I have not seen any link or other way of contacting him. thanks Ulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madonna Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Davidsen is one of the dealers over at "The Dark Side" (Replica-Watch.Info or RWI). http://replica-watch.info You need to register, then look under "Dealers Forum" and you will find him. You will find prices, pics and contact info there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBoy Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Davidsen is one of the dealers over at "The Dark Side" (Replica-Watch.Info or RWI). http://replica-watch.info You need to register, then look under "Dealers Forum" and you will find him. You will find prices, pics and contact info there Also on replicacollector. Not sure if this link will work: http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...p?showforum=182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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