Would You Roll On Your Friends?

[crystalcranium]

Suppose one day, taking delivery of a replica of a $10,000 watch became a very serious offense and the EMS package from Josh was delivered by an FBI agent who wanted to know who were your partners in crime. To borrow a phrase from the TV cop shows, would you roll on your friends and dealers in the community?????

I think I'd probably cave right after I lost control of my bowels.

BTW, not a serious question meant to out any skells that might flip once the man brings heat. How's that for NYPD Blue speak????

[Pugwash]

I'd lawyer up, to use the parlance-du-jour.

[jonthebhoy]

Never ever ever ever in a million years unless they offered me lots and lots of lovely lolly!

JTB

[Watchmeister]

Gee, I wonder what show you were watching last night. My answer is no. Short of murder, first-time offenders never get time.

[crystalcranium]

Gee, I wonder what show you were watching last night. My answer is no. Short of murder, first-time offenders never get time.

Without a Trace, Law and Order, Cops, NYPD Blue.......

No local sports on or I might have asked "What watch would you wear during a hockey game???"

[Watchmeister]

A cheap one. Have you noticed the glass on the boards have been shattering lately?

[KB]

Suppose one day, taking delivery of a replica of a $10,000 watch became a very serious offense and the EMS package from Josh was delivered by an FBI agent who wanted to know who were your partners in crime. To borrow a phrase from the TV cop shows, would you roll on your friends and dealers in the community?????

I think I'd probably cave right after I lost control of my bowels.

BTW, not a serious question meant to out any skells that might flip once the man brings heat. How's that for NYPD Blue speak????

Righto that's it..........I'm giving you a wide berth from now on.....................stoolie!

Ken

[crystalcranium]

A cheap one. Have you noticed the glass on the boards have been shattering lately?

Yeah, must be mineral. They need to go to Hardex.

[r11co]

I'd deny all knowledge of the contents of the unsolicited package, and claim I'd never heard of the sender in my life.

[cornerstone]

The secret once they are already in your house is to lay little cheese traps, they absolutely can't resist the cheese. Or, in fact, some peanut butter that has been under the grill can work wonders too. Gets the wee blighters every time.

Wait, oh, the FBI....I thought you meant mice.

[r11co]

The secret once they are already in your house is to lay little cheese traps, they absolutely can't resist the cheese. Or, in fact, some peanut butter that has been under the grill can work wonders too. Gets the wee blighters every time.

Wait, oh, the FBI....I thought you meant mice.

Pint of what he's drinking please, barman....

[TJGladeRaider]

That's not generally how things work.

On TV, everyone gets read their rights . . . the reality is, an investigating officer does not have to read you your rights, even if he arrests you, and no investigating/arresting officer has the juice to make a "deal" binding upon the Office of the United States Attorney.

The obligation to read a person their rights applies prior to CUSTODIAL INTERROGATION. If thus inclined (and it works better than you think), any law enforcement officer can arrest you and take you to jail without asking you a thing. IF you are read your rights, assert them in the absense of clear mistake. If the true answer is, "That package is addressed to Joe Blow who lives in my guest house," by all means say so, but [censored] is a bad idea -- a very, very bad idea. Making false statements to an investigator is a violation of 18 USC 1001 that only makes things worse.

Where most people get jammed up is trying to talk their way out of a situation, generally hoping they can avoid being arrested. Unless the truth will set you free, lawyer up.

What you will do from there depends upon what happens.

Having personally had cases where parents rolled over on children, brothers turned on brothers, wives turned on husbands . . . I can tell you that "would you rollover . . ." is a silly question. If you are in serious trouble, you will cooperate with the government unless you are involved in organized crime. In that case, you may have more to fear than the government.

There are three reasons for that, the first being a reality that sets the stage for the other two. The reality is, there is no such thing as parole in our federal system anymore. By statute, you will serve 85% of your sentence - unless you die first. A twenty year sentence means seventeen years behind bars unless you die.

Then there is Section 5k1.1 of the US Sentencing Guidelines that provides reasons why a sentencing judge can sentence you to less than the guidelines would otherwise require - the principal reason being cooperation. If you are in trouble, and faced with the prospect of spending 17 years of your life making nice with cell mates . . . well, we had a huge banner on the Task Force wall that read, "Play Ball With Us, Or We'll Shove The Bat Up Your Ass." I kid you not.

The final motivator is Rule 35 - a reduction in sentence motion that can only be filed by the prosecutor AFTER sentencing (and within one year). In a Rule 35 Motion, the prosecutor asks the judge to reduce your sentence based upon your "substantial assistance" post sentencing.

In other words, the government has two separate and distinct opportunities to "flip" you.

Now, let's talk a moment about the mechanics involved. Suppose you decide to trade off a couple of "friends" you don't really care much about. An experienced agent has seen all this before and he's going to be way ahead of you. There is no such thing as being a "sort of" [censored] - it's all or nothing.

Your new friend is going to let you tell everything you want to tell, get your statements, use them, and let you get used to the fact that you've sold out. Then he'll point out the fine print in your Plea Agreement -- cooperation must be complete, or it's meaningless. Then you'll tell him about your Momma, otherwise you can find yourself doing hard time with the folks you snitched out.

So, the answer to the question is, "Yes, if the government has you by the stones, you will roll over on your friends, your family, your spouse, or your Mom by the time the government is thru with you."

Of course, you may be different - a real tough guy, a man of principle . . . and Bubba ain't gonna bust dat booty either.

Of course, this is an international group so I cannot presume to say what happens elsewhere, except to say that I'd rather be prosecuted here in the US than in any Country I have had dealings with. In China, their idea of giving you a break may be reminding you to open your mouth wide enough so your family can have an open casket funeral (the bullet doesn't destroy your face on the way out).

Bill

[leeson43]

they wouldnt bother...its a too biga waste of resources

if they did tho....i wouldnt say a word until a solicitor was present. answering police questions on your own is NOT a smart move!

Edited December 6, 2006 by leeson43

[section8]

Great bit of information Bill, thanks

[crystalcranium]

Wow, great information and a dose of reality that wasn't the intent of opening the thread. I thought the usual band of clowns around here would chime in with some amusing anecdotes and entertain me. Didn't intend to scare anyone or start a serious discussion about fraud and prosecution. I would hope that my dozen replicas doesn't constitute an illicit collection waranting investigation. My wife, however, thinks I'm going to the federal pen. She's such a girl scout.

[jkerouac]

Can we nominate this as the "Feel Good About Your Fellow Forum Members Post of the Month"????

[Pugwash]

My wife, however, thinks I'm going to the federal pen. She's such a girl scout.

Cool, does she have the uniform?

(when you said "amusing anecdotes", was this the sort of thing you were looking for?)

[crystalcranium]

Cool, does she have the uniform?

(when you said "amusing anecdotes", was this the sort of thing you were looking for?)

Oui!

No she doesn't have her girl scout uniform anymore but she does have a nice French Maid outfit that's been getting some use lately! Oooh La La

[TJGladeRaider]

Wow, great information and a dose of reality that wasn't the intent of opening the thread. I thought the usual band of clowns around here would chime in with some amusing anecdotes and entertain me. Didn't intend to scare anyone or start a serious discussion about fraud and prosecution. I would hope that my dozen replicas doesn't constitute an illicit collection waranting investigation. My wife, however, thinks I'm going to the federal pen. She's such a girl scout.

As of now, collecting counterfeit watches is legal here in the US although selling one makes you a potential felon. There is no limitation as to number that I know of, but I will say that if twelve is a problem, perhaps we can arrange to share a cell.

Bill

[2005SUBMARINER]

VERY nice collection !

[2005SUBMARINER]

if the police where serious on arresting replica watch collectors here in NYC ..

why not start arresting all the tourist that buy up the cheap nyc canal st reps ..

you can see people in every corner of nyc canal st buying cheap reps ..

oh & lots of nyc cops around

[fotoman]

As of now, collecting counterfeit watches is legal here in the US although selling one makes you a potential felon. There is no limitation as to number that I know of, but I will say that if twelve is a problem, perhaps we can arrange to share a cell.

Bill

Lesson learned from the thread, if teh federalies come calling at your door, don't roll, call TJGladeRaider for advice

may not be a crime but its still copywrite and trademark infringment and as is the case for most of us, Rolex et al has a deeper pocket for legal fees.

[2005SUBMARINER]

I WOULD THINK THAT customs would consentrate on big shipments .

would be wasteing time on investigating a 1 watch shipment vs 50+ watches in one box

[Pugwash]

may not be a crime but its still copywrite and trademark infringment and as is the case for most of us, Rolex et al has a deeper pocket for legal fees.

It's a crime here ...

[crystalcranium]

I WOULD THINK THAT customs would consentrate on big shipments .

would be wasteing time on investigating a 1 watch shipment vs 50+ watches in one box

I agree...It was a "What if it bacame a serious crime" question.

There was a time not too many years ago I considered shoving a baggie of pot in my sock and hopping on a plane a no risk action. I wouldn't even consider risking it today. (Plus....I don't smoke anymore....not since peeing in a cup became part of retainig my medical license!!!) I hope we never have to be afraid of "one watch crime" transactions but you never know.....times change!