netniet Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 I have a issue with my Franken HH 5514. Recently the gen movement in it stopped, and would not start anymore. I have sent this watch to a watchmaker, and he told me today he could not put the stem properly back in the gen movement because the crown tube and movement are not properly aligned, and the stem therefore would bent. He said he can fix this, but this would be expensive, so I have asked him only to service the movement. I have a couple of options. First one is to try to find a modder here who can fix this for me. Or replace the HH case with a Phong case, or maybe replace it with a gen case. Will a Phong case be a better fit for the gen movement? What would you guys advice? Here are a couple of photo's of the watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rower Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 This is a beautiful build! More details about the other parts please! That dial is incredible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UmpaHimself Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 That dial is stunning. Must be gen. Isn't the HH case made for the gen movement? Sorry I don't know much about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netniet Posted March 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 4 hours ago, rower said: This is a beautiful build! More details about the other parts please! That dial is incredible! Thx, the movement, dial, hands, plexi, crown and insert are gen. The crown tube is from Athaya, and the midcase, caseback and bezel assembly are HH. 4 hours ago, UmpaHimself said: That dial is stunning. Must be gen. Isn't the HH case made for the gen movement? Sorry I don't know much about them. Yes, the HH case is made for gen, but the movement position is not perfectly on mine. I don't know if this is a common issue with this case set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UmpaHimself Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 21 minutes ago, netniet said: Thx, the movement, dial, hands, plexi, crown and insert are gen. The crown tube is from Athaya, and the midcase, caseback and bezel assembly are HH. Yes, the HH case is made for gen, but the movement position is not perfectly on mine. I don't know if this is a common issue with this case set. Ah I see. That's unfortunate. I'm sure it can be machined but how and by whom, I can't say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 "Yes, the HH case is made for gen, but the movement position is not perfectly on mine. I don't know if this is a common issue with this case set." It may be the same type of problem as with MBK cases. Read the 'Building an MBK Sub' sticky above. The part about the dial window and dial seat will not apply. Besides being a hassle to r/r the stem with the misalignment, it will quickly wear the main plate out of round if the stem/crown is turned a lot so it would be a good idea to sort it out. Is the movement too close to the front of the case or to the rear? This makes a difference in how easy it will be to fix. Some projects seem to fall together and some fight you every step of the way ('fallers' or 'fighters'). Almost all of mine have been fighters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperHero Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 Beautiful watch, unfortunate circumstance. If you have this much invested, perhaps a gen case or Phong. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt.watch.obsessive Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 Well, I'm guessing a gen 5514 case is mildly cost prohibitive. I would seat the serviced movement in the case yourself and see how far off it is first. Some watchmakers have a very low tolerance for working with anything that is not 100% perfect. Is your movement a 1520 or 1570? I think the stem position is the same, but you might want to verify. I do not recall any issues with my HH 1520 combo, at least not with stem position. The rest was a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netniet Posted March 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 16 hours ago, alt.watch.obsessive said: Is your movement a 1520 or 1570? I have got a 1530 movement. Thank guys for the info. I am thinking about buying a Phong ETA 1665, and then switch the inner parts (movement, dial and hands) of this watch to the HH case, and then move the gen movement to the Phong case. And I will replace the plexi, insert, tube and crown on the Phong case with gen parts. By doing this I will end up with two very nice watches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhorn Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Therein lies the problem. The 1530 movement is thicker than the 1520. I don't think the Phong ETA case is going to work either. A 1530 is 5.75mm in height, the 2824 is 4.7mm and the 2836 is 5.1mm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbane883 Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 The 1530 movement is thicker than the 1520. Really? I did not know that. Huh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhorn Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 The heights between the 1530 and ETA's came direct from Ranfft. I haven't used a 1530 myself for anything, but the height difference between the 1520 and 1530 I have in my movement notes attributed to Ubi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 "The 1530 movement is thicker than the 1520." "Really? I did not know that. Huh." The 1520 and 1530 are the same size with nearly identical plates etc. Straight from a rolex manual: 1520/30/60/70/80 no date 12.5 ligne (28.5mm) H = 5.75mm 1525/35/65/75 date 12.5 ligne (28.5mm) H = 6.30mm 1565/75 date/GMT 12.5 ligne (28.5mm) H = 6.47mm 1555/56 Day/Date 12.5 ligne (28.5mm) H = 7.03mm edit: Look around the outside edge of the dial on the front side and see if there is any space at all between the dial and dial seat aka (reflector/rehaut). If there is any space it usually means the movement has seated but the dial has not...find out why. Maybe the case is a hair out of spec or something. Next, look at the back side of the movement where the movement casing screw heads fit into the groove in the case and make sure they are both in place in the groove, not out of the groove. Exceptions = when case clamps have been used, I had to use case clamps on a couple of my MBK/1520 '5513' and 1575 '1680' because the case screws were too tight in the groove. If the dial is tight against the front of the case and the casing screws are in the proper position, the next thing to check would be to make sure the dial is snug against the movement and no spacer has been used. If this all checks out, the case will need some detail machining. "IIRC the 2846/2836 is what HH designed the case for, but I know dbane and fitch (maybe others) built 5514's with a 1520 and HH case. Maybe there's a trick to getting everything to line up?" The Eta 2836/46 is close to the rolex 1575 date and the 2824 is close to the rolex 15xx no date models...not exact but close and the swap from Eta to 15xx usually goes Ok...depending minor details inside the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhorn Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Interesting. Will have to update my notes. Thanks! I used an ETA 2846 in my HH case. It's 5.22mm and worked OK. Can see why the OP's watchmaker is saying things aren't aligned properly. IIRC the 2846/2836 is what HH designed the case for, but I know dbane and fitch (maybe others) built 5514's with a 1520 and HH case. Maybe there's a trick to getting everything to line up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbane883 Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Yes. I've used both 1520's and 1530's and never noticed a difference in fitment. And yes, the 1520 fit fine in the HH case for me. But since only 10 or so were made, there may have been slight differences amongst them. IMO, the rehaut on the HH case is a tad thin. Which is why I ended up using a phong case for the final build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam007 Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 sucks you're having this problem. I have always admired your build. You can always go gen. switch out the 1530 for a 1520 and get this case:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-70s-ROLEX-Submariner-5513-case-parts-NICE-/391407581554?hash=item5b21b5b972:g:le4AAOSwZ8ZW6HDo Kinda boring but Gen is where all nice builds go to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhorn Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 4 minutes ago, pam007 said: sucks you're having this problem. I have always admired your build. You can always go gen. switch out the 1530 for a 1520 and get this case:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-70s-ROLEX-Submariner-5513-case-parts-NICE-/391407581554?hash=item5b21b5b972:g:le4AAOSwZ8ZW6HDo Kinda boring but everyone does it eventually. Looks like that seller broke up an entire 5513. He's selling off all the parts but the dial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam007 Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 1 minute ago, tomhorn said: Looks like that seller broke up an entire 5513. He's selling off all the parts but the dial. not really. 68 case back is 2 million serial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netniet Posted March 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Well, I will give it a try. I have bought some very nice parts from this seller at a reasonable price before, but probably this will end up in a bidding war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickFlorida Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 On 3/14/2016 at 11:38 AM, dbane883 said: Really? I did not know that. Huh. I have seen other people claim this but Automatico always has the best information. On another forum, a guy claimed "1530 is the base caliber for many movements, it is actually 28,5mm x 6,30mm whereas the 1520 is 28,5mm x 5,75mm" but maybe the 1530 had a date function or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 "...maybe the 1530 had a date function or something?" It was probably a 1535 date (6.30mm thick) because the base 1530 no date is 5.75mm thick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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