My PCG 5513 or 5512 Build - Help me decide on parts

[jigelow]

My PCG 5513 or 5512 Build - Help me decide on parts

So this case came up for sale right when I was reading up on PCGs so I bought it. Now I need to decide where I'm going.

 

I'm looking for a gen T19 right now.

I'm searching for the best 700 crown I can get for the money. I assume I'll need to replace the tube on this one. If I go gen crown, should I just go Athaya tube? What bits do I need to tap the whole once drilled?

Anyone know what ETA movement ring I may need? Do I go for a 2846 movement for this?

Seller said it took a gen bezel assembly, so should I just go Yuki for the full set? @Nanuq may have some good advice on this.

For hands, it looks like Clarks or @Bart Cordell recommended jkhorological in the 5513 thread. Am I good with these?

 

And then of course the dial. There's a lot of options on Ebay, although, I don't know if they're really the best, nor the most reasonably priced. The closest I'd found was this one:

 

 

Compared to this example that I'd found:

 

 

Now, using this dial, I'd have to call this a 5512. But the coronet and fonts seem to be the closest. What do you guys think?

 

All of you were such a big help with my 16610/16800 build (can't believe that was two years ago already, still going strong!). I got a bit bored with watches and started building rifles last year, but now I'm back. I appreciate any guidance you guys can provide!

 

Thanks again!

[hologramet]

All 4-liners are 5512.

However, not all 2-liners are 5513s.

 

Make it easy for yourself, go with Athaya 700 crown + tube. Gen crown sure, but it will not be correct timewise, and a used one in tacky condition, don't see the point. 

 

Hands, JKHoroligical are great. You can mix-and-match with HelenaRou-hands if you want to go overboard. 

 

Bezel insert, Yuki black or blue fat font, give it some bleach and you're good. Add a lumed pearl from that same ebay-seller. 

 

Well, that's a Vietnam-midcase, for 1530, so a ETA 2824 has the same dimensions. You can change the balance and some extra parts from a 2846 to keep the right distances but make it 21600bph. You will have to cut the dial feet. Or use e.g. a 2522 and drill the movement plate, it'll be manual wind and 18000bph. I recommend not to.

 

That's about it.. 

 

 

[interaktiv]

Here is one of my build with ETA 2451, so is also the 18000bph vie at the 1530 Cal.

 

 

 

[jigelow]

Awesome! Thanks, @hologramet. I've been reading up on your builds and it's been super helpful!

 

Will I need a movement ring, or should it plop right in there and just need the retainer tabs?

 

Do you think the dial is any good or should I keep searching?

 

@interaktiv, that's gorgeous! That appears to be the same dial I'm looking at. Are you happy with it? Did you need a movement ring with the 2451?

 

I see that's a yuki insert, is it also a yuki assembly and retainer? Is it the same midcase I have?

 

So it seems I should just go Athaya for both crown and tube. How hard is it to drill and tap the case to fit the tube?

Edited February 11, 2017 by jigelow

[interaktiv]

55 minutes ago, jigelow said:

Awesome! Thanks, @hologramet. I've been reading up on your builds and it's been super helpful!

 

Will I need a movement ring, or should it plop right in there and just need the retainer tabs?

 

Do you think the dial is any good or should I keep searching?

 

@interaktiv, that's gorgeous! That appears to be the same dial I'm looking at. Are you happy with it? Did you need a movement ring with the 2451?

 

I see that's a yuki insert, is it also a yuki assembly and retainer? Is it the same midcase I have?

 

So it seems I should just go Athaya for both crown and tube. How hard is it to drill and tap the case to fit the tube?

 

Yes the dial is the same and of quality here is OK! But this is a 5512 Gilt Underline Dial and no 5513.

 

My used case was one of the new Cartel and only the insert of yuki.

Hands from Clark, relumed and reworked.
Crown and Tube, Athaya 700.
Plexi, T19 sternkreuz.

 

Yes for the 2451 you need a movement ring!

 

99% you do not have to drill your case around the Athaya tube.

 

 

[jigelow]

Great! Thanks, @interaktiv! Do you recall what movement ring you used?

[interaktiv]

10 hours ago, jigelow said:

Great! Thanks, @interaktiv! Do you recall what movement ring you used?

 

You can use this: https://yukiwatch.ecwid.com/#!/ETA-adaptor-retro-fit-cal-15X0-case/p/35063689/category=6702299

[automatico]

The 'slo-mo' 18kbph 2451 Etas are fine movements.  I have one in a 20 year old BB project watch, c/o one time in 20 years, still runs like a top.

 

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&ETA_2451

[jigelow]

12 hours ago, interaktiv said:

 

You can use this: https://yukiwatch.ecwid.com/#!/ETA-adaptor-retro-fit-cal-15X0-case/p/35063689/category=6702299

 

Damn! I'm not exactly going cheap on this, but $50 for a spacer is hard to swallow. Especially seeing Raffles prices.

 

[jigelow]

So in the hunt for a good bezel, I've been in contact with bit MQ and Phong. I like MQs insert much better and it would be a better fit with an early, probably '63 PCG. Anyone have opinions of one over the other?

 

There seem to be some mystery bezels sets that are quite reasonable on eBay; however, who's to tell they'll fit well over a gen crystal before one cracks it. 

 

Any other providers I may be overlooking if bezels and inserts?

[automatico]

"There seem to be some mystery bezels sets that are quite reasonable on eBay; however, who's to tell they'll fit well over a gen crystal before one cracks it."

 

(I have probably posted this 10 times)

1...If you plan to do much crystal fitting, you will need a precision digital caliper, not a $12.99 cheapo, a good one...if you do not have one already. 

2...Measure the OD of the crystal after  it is pushed down on the case neck...write it down.  Measuring a loose crystal is usually not going to give an accurate measurement.

3...Measure the ID of the inner (crystal retaining) bezel...write it down.

4...The inner crystal retaining bezel needs to be around .1mm to .2 mm smaller than the crystal (measured on the watch). 

5...Use a heavy duty bezel press with metal dies if possible, plastic dies are usually too flimsy.  You will soon develop a 'feel' for proper fit.  Mine is an old Japan made 'BB' press from way back and now reproductions are available at 'affordable' prices.

 

Here are BB styles with tapered and straight wall dies and you can find these presses at reasonable prices if you look around.  The second listing has a much better price. 

 

http://www.jewelerssupplies.com/product12034.html   

 

http://collectionsmall.stores.yahoo.net/wacaprcrprwi.html

 

Here is a cheapo model that might  be Ok:  https://www.amazon.com/Watch-Crystal-Press-Watchmaker-Repair/dp/B000RB3HRU   The frame is probably made out of 'pot metal'.  BB type bases are made out of cast iron.

 

The general rule is cheapo tools = broken parts....but not always.

 

Imho...

Genuine crystals are over rated, especially on project watches.  I have used GS crystals for 40 years and never had any problems and their crystals for vintage no date submariners come in 4 or 5 sizes.  Sternkreuz are Ok too but sometimes not a precision fit.

Like I said many times before...when you find a crystal that fits...buy 3 of them.  Many no name 'internet' crystals are out of spec, sometimes from one batch to the next.

Many no name internet bezel kits are not too hot either.  The better sets come from Clark, watchman408 (on eBay) and ST in my experience.  Better = they fit.

 

 

[jigelow]

Awesome. Thank you, sir!

[ronin007]

My mate mapman57 built this for me, actually a Phong 9401/0 engraved mid case 8 serial 1976,phong bezel assembly,Athaya 702 tube and crown,swiss eta,gen service insert and crystal bought off therolex forum,yuki dial and hands, gen 93150 bracelet with rep 580 end links  

[jigelow]

And so it begins...

 

I also have a ETA2451 on it's way.

 

[jackflash]

Good luck on your journey! Looking forward to seeing this come together.

[jigelow]

For those with more experience, is the WSO bezel assembly worth it? ST is much cheaper. Clarks is currently out of stock. Which one of these three is best for the money? 

[RickFlorida]

I'm not an expert, but what I believe is that which ever one is the matte finish, that you have to polish.....That is a Swiss made one.   So it has a great fit.  So Clark's and a few others sell it I believe.   I bought one and the retaining ring it comes with fits the bezel perfectly.   Polishing it easy enough.

[jigelow]

11 minutes ago, RickFlorida said:

I'm not an expert, but what I believe is that which ever one is the matte finish, that you have to polish.....That is a Swiss made one.   So it has a great fit.  So Clark's and a few others sell it I believe.   I bought one and the retaining ring it comes with fits the bezel perfectly.   Polishing it easy enough.

 

I think ST, watchman, and others sell that one. It's s cheaper than WSO's option, too. 

 

What did you use to polish it? I've seen everything from a dremmel to a drill press. 

[RickFlorida]

Hi, I happen to make jewelry as a hobby so I used my buffing wheel .      But you could also do it with any buffing pad and use cheap polishing compound from hardware store.    Just pick a fine compound, not a rough cutting compound.   They make compounds for stainless steel.

 

You could try using a Dremel, with small buffing wheel, and add the compound.   But a large wheel is easier .

[jigelow]

This has been a bit slow going between hinting for various parts as well as scope creep (see my Tudor BB post in general)

 

I bought a Benarus that I'll harvest the 2451 out of and service it. If I just breathe on it the movement starts ticking so I can't wait to see the reserve once serviced. Benefit of 18000bph, I suppose. 

 

I also ordered a coupke couple sets of hands from JK that I'll be testing various aging techniques on. I figure if this is supposed to be from 1963, shinny gold hands wouldn't look quite right. Any suggestions on things to try, let me know. 

 

Finally, I ordered Raffles #1 and #2 holders. It looks like #1 will work - outer diameter fits in the case and the movement fits snug in the holder. This should save some folks money over the Yuki should anyone go the same route I am. 

[automatico]

"I'm not an expert, but what I believe is that which ever one is the matte finish, that you have to polish.....That is a Swiss made one.   So it has a great fit.  So Clark's and a few others sell it I believe.   I bought one and the retaining ring it comes with fits the bezel perfectly.   Polishing it easy enough."

 

Here they are for $79:

eBay item number:  122385973182

[jigelow]

I've got the rest of the parts coming in from various places around the world, so that may take a while.

 

I have an idea for the dial, but need to test it. Anyone have a garbage dial lying around? Doesn't have to be a Rolex, just has to have a bit of the finish left on it. 

 

 

[jigelow]

So I got the bezel assembly from MQ, which is pretty good service since the money hasn't even been picked up from Western Union.

 

The bezel is pretty loose on the retainer. I know that loose or tight is fairly common. I know what to do for too tight, but too loose, like I could easily lose it too loose...do I just try the fishing line/dental floss trick? Any other tips?

[Mr Seamaster]

So I got the bezel assembly from MQ, which is pretty good service since the money hasn't even been picked up from Western Union.

 

The bezel is pretty loose on the retainer. I know that loose or tight is fairly common. I know what to do for too tight, but too loose, like I could easily lose it too loose...do I just try the fishing line/dental floss trick? Any other tips?

 

 

Found this very usefull, thought it seems a little insecure.. just use some strong tape between the retainer and the bezel itself.

 

Here's a screenshot:

 

 

That's the cheapest way i think. The guy who did it said it worked for months. And after that he just changed the tape for a new one.

 

Phil

[jackflash]

 The bezel is pretty loose on the retainer.

Try it in situ with the crystal you may find it becomes tighter. Also, there should be a tension spring between the bezel and retaining ring that you can bend slightly to cause friction.