Submariner build questions

[Mattjames84]

I got a big problem, I was putting on the new dial and hands and screwed the keyless works of the movement up. Then tried to fix it and wasn't successful, so now I'm in need of a 2846 to replace it

[manodeoro]

41 minutes ago, Mattjames84 said:

I got a big problem, I was putting on the new dial and hands and screwed the keyless works of the movement up. Then tried to fix it and wasn't successful, so now I'm in need of a 2846 to replace it

 

Problem YES but not big at all as you can fix it yourself with the good informations.

Here you go http://kronometric.org/article/eta/eta_keyless_assy.html

Of course you'll have to first remove the date wheel if your movement have one and you're ready to go.

 

I've never worked on 2846s (only 2836s and 2834s) but I've read somewhere here that some of those have hacking function.

If your movement was hacking (before you screwed the keyless works of course) then take care of placing the hacking lever in the clutch groove before putting everything back.

If you don't remember just have look at the balance side of the movement and check if there is a tiny lever close to the balance wheel ... if not so your movement wasn't hacking andyou can skip that step.

 

Feel free to ask if you need some help

 

EDIT :

BTW ... is your movement a 2836 or 2846 ? cause sometimes you write 36 and sometimes 46

Nevertheless 36 or 46, and A or ETA, the link above wil be usefull to fix your keyless works.

 

One usefull thing your sould do, before putting the setting lever on, is to lubricate a little the hole on the movement plate where the setting lever's pin goes ... doing that way you'll be certain that the pin will come back to place after pushing on it to remove the stem.

 

Another usefull thing you could do is to put some grease on the "squared" part of the stem before putting it back on, then turn it both ways while putting it back, so that the square part of the stem can be aligned with the square hole on the wheel

Edited May 27, 2019 by manodeoro

[Mattjames84]

Tried that. The movement was a 2836. worked on it for about 3 hours taking it apart and putting it back together about 6 different times.. finally got it to a point where I was able to get the crown in and it would change the date and set the time but wouldn't wind.. at one point I even broke the clutch lever that I replaced with a 2834 I had laying around.. then ofcourse I lost screws cause I don't have a real good place to work on a movement... anyway I got so fed up the things in the garbage and the case is waiting for a new movement..

[manodeoro]

3 minutes ago, Mattjames84 said:

Tried that. The movement was a 2836. worked on it for about 3 hours taking it apart and putting it back together about 6 different times.. finally got it to a point where I was able to get the crown in and it would change the date and set the time but wouldn't wind.. at one point I even broke the clutch lever that I replaced with a 2834 I had laying around.. then ofcourse I lost screws cause I don't have a real good place to work on a movement... anyway I got so fed up the things in the garbage and the case is waiting for a new movement..

 

Too bad ... FIRST lesson is "good and clean place = good and clean work" ... I learned that one from direct experience

Keep the link as it gives really good advices aboutu "how to position this or that" ... using that document you could desassemble and reassemble a 28xx keyless works in less than 5 minutes and get perfect results.

Just take note that the movement used in that tuto is a no-date so the combined setting lever jumper has only 2 positions on the setting lever spring (setting + winding).

Have a look at the last pic and you will see how the U-spring should go to left of the yoke return pin ... that could explain why your movement didn't wind after reassembly.

IMPORTANT :

do NOT throw your broken movement away ... kep it aside, gather spare parts along the way ... someday you will repair it 

 

[Mattjames84]

Good advise, I'll dig around in the garbage and try an find it

[Mattjames84]

Found it.. lol

[manodeoro]

Just now, Mattjames84 said:

Found it.. lol

 

Not kidding at all ...

 

February 2017 ...

I did my first attempt to dismantle a movement ... 3804B so not the most simple movement (basically DG2813 + GMT function added)

My initial idea was to reset a screwed keyless works.

First problem was the date lever spring satelised as I removed the DW plate, etc ... and movement staid in parts for almost 2 years.

 

Some weeks ago ...

After months of pratice on Asian, French and Swiss movements, I've decided to have a look at it.

I just cleaned all the parts, got the missing parts from incomplete movements I had collected for free, reassembled everything back in place and lubricated along the way 

Now the movement is ticking and keeping good time ... just waiting for me to give it a dial and case.

[collij12]

Looking for a platinum Submariner any recommended retailers?


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[hologramet]

Platinum sub?

There's hasn't been one made. So you better look good and thorough.


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[Mr Seamaster]

Looking for a platinum Submariner any recommended retailers?


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Oh boy.. Read the fora. You‘re a member since an hour and post a s*^% question in the first thread you see? Congrats!

[collij12]

I didn’t know this was judgemental zone Thanks for the warm welcome!


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[Porterjrm]

Your original 5513 is currently undergoing a transformation. First attempt at crown guards tonight


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[Mattjames84]

Looks pretty good to me, nice job

[automatico]

"I did my first attempt to dismantle a movement...3804B so not the most simple movement (basically DG2813 + GMT function added)."

 

If you get to where you can take these things apart and put them together with a high success rate...you should be able to work on most swiss time and date movements with no trouble.

Why is that?

Because the chintzy date works in A21 movements in general and the Miyota clones with the buried reverser along with most train wheels stuffed under one plate will make a watch fixer out of just about anyone who sticks with it.

 

"First problem was the date lever spring satelised as I removed the DW plate, etc...and movement stayed in parts for almost 2 years."

 

On some of these movements the U shaped spring goes in last after the date works cover plate is on the movement...it goes through a slotted hole in the plate.  

Do not ask how I know this.

 

"After months of practice on Asian, French and Swiss movements, I've decided to have a look at it.

I just cleaned all the parts, got the missing parts from incomplete movements I had collected for free, reassembled everything back in place and lubricated along the way. 

Now the movement is ticking and keeping good time... just waiting for me to give it a dial and case."

 

The main thing I learned about A21 movements...you gotta be tuff to work on 'em.  

 

 

[ceejay]

I have fond memories of spending a day & a bit locating all those pivots under the one plate...ahhh the good ole days 🤯

[Porterjrm]

Anybody here have experience fitting a wso bezel assembly to a cartel case? If so, what crystal could you recommend. This is a JKF 5513 stamped 1680 on the case. I’ve gone through the ofrei t-19’s and a Clark’s so far. The original setup was glued in place, crystal and retainer were both glued to the case.


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[tobi007]

Anybody here have experience fitting a wso bezel assembly to a cartel case? If so, what crystal could you recommend. This is a JKF 5513 stamped 1680 on the case. I’ve gone through the ofrei t-19’s and a Clark’s so far. The original setup was glued in place, crystal and retainer were both glued to the case.


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The WSO bezel assembly is not the best quality, I would say it is the money not worth.
I used the cartel bezel assembly and sternkreuz t19 (303mm) I expanded the retainer ring with 600 Sandpaper. After that I pressed the retainer ring on the crystal and got it tight without glue. Waterproof tested till 8bar.

Have you measured your retainer ring? There are two different versions on the market.

Cartell case's with domed crystal have ~30.1mm.
Cartell case's with date cyclops crystal have 30.38mm.

[Porterjrm]

The WSO bezel assembly is not the best quality, I would say it is the money not worth.
I used the cartel bezel assembly and sternkreuz t19 (303mm) I expanded the retainer ring with 600 Sandpaper. After that I pressed the retainer ring on the crystal and got it tight without glue. Waterproof tested till 8bar.

Have you measured your retainer ring? There are two different versions on the market.

Cartell case's with domed crystal have ~30.1mm.
Cartell case's with date cyclops crystal have 30.38mm.

30.1 is what I have I believe. I’ll look for that crystal and go from there. The 30.38 would work without much modification though on the ofrei t-19 or even a Clark’s i think. I’ll keep that info for future reference.

Do you know of another source for bezel assemblies besides wso?


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[tobi007]

30.1 is what I have I believe. I’ll look for that crystal and go from there. The 30.38 would work without much modification though on the ofrei t-19 or even a Clark’s i think. I’ll keep that info for future reference.

Do you know of another source for bezel assemblies besides wso?


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If you come frome the EU, I can recommend cousins. The sternkreuz crystals T19 is there cheap available in two different sizes.

Depends on the retainer ring, it is better when the size is smaller and have material for sanding off.

Phong (Vietnam) have nice bezel assemblies.
Startime has also bezel assemblies, but I don't know the quality.

[RickFlorida]

WSO stuff is really bad.   I use Clarks brand aftermarket assemblies now.  The WSO bezel assemblies always had bad fitting retaining rings that would not snap into the bezel.   And the inserts would not snap into the bezel either.

[Porterjrm]

 

 

 

 

If you come frome the EU, I can recommend cousins. The sternkreuz crystals T19 is there cheap available in two different sizes.

 

Depends on the retainer ring, it is better when the size is smaller and have material for sanding off.

 

Phong (Vietnam) have nice bezel assemblies.

Startime has also bezel assemblies, but I don't know the quality.

I just ordered the sternkreuz t19 303 to try out. Thanks again for the info!

 

 

WSO stuff is really bad.   I use Clarks brand aftermarket assemblies now.  The WSO bezel assemblies always had bad fitting retaining rings that would not snap into the bezel.   And the inserts would not snap into the bezel either.

 

I found that the wso bezel won’t snap onto the retainer.. waste of money.

 

Are the Clark’s assemblies on E bay??

 

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[Porterjrm]

Ignore that, I reached out to the seller for Clark’s and he will have the assemblies around the end of next week.


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[automatico]

"Startime has also bezel assemblies, but I don't know the quality."

 

ST and Clark bezel kits were exactly the same a couple years ago but do not know about now.  Both are high quality and accurately OEM sized...they also have a matte finish that can be polished away in a few minutes. 

Have read that WSO can be hit or miss.  Mostly miss.

 

Cartel cases can be OEM spec for the case neck (28.2mm) and standard bezel kits will work but many are not OEM spec and this can lead to a lot of trouble.  My advice is to measure the case neck OD first before spending a lot of $$ on a 55xx/1680 project.  If it is off much more than .1mm you may have a lot of trouble getting a proper fit.

 

Getting proper tension between the crystal retainer bezel and rotating bezel can be a real hassle too so as soon as the crystal and crystal retainer are installed, snap the rotating bezel on the case without a tension washer and see if it turns with no tight spots.  Tight spots can usually be removed by putting fine polishing compound on the parts and turning them back and forth until they smooth out. 

Btw, one of the worst bezel fitting jobs was on a genuine 1675 using all new genuine parts so there is no guarantee that using genuine OEM parts will be a hassle free fit.

 

Always press down lightly on the rotating bezel when testing the turning friction or using polishing compound to prevent undue wear on the bezel parts that provide the snap on fit.  After the bezel fitting is finished and the rotating bezel is finally mounted, continue to lightly press down on the bezel when turning it to lessen the tension between the rotating bezel and crystal retainer by compressing the tension washer.  This also prevents wear to the mating surfaces as mentioned above.

 

I would guess that about half of my bezel fitting jobs were trouble free but some of the others turned out to be a time consuming hassle.  This is not meant to discourage anyone but to say that ill fitting rotating bezels are not out of the ordinary.

The next hurdle is bezel inserts...

[Porterjrm]

JKF case, WSO bezel assembly, sternkreuz t19, athaya crown, and an eta 2836. Turned out pretty nice thanks to info here.


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