A 5513 too good to be true?

[swdivad]

Here's another one for the Rolex experts... Price is under 7kUSD (no box/papers, or bracelet and looks in extremely good condition. Is it too good to be true?

[tony5haw2013]

Movement looks genuine, using the proper screws to mount the movement and not tabs, it does look very clean though.

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[Nanuq]

For a watch that age where is the bracelet wear on the back of the lugs? I wonder if it’s a Phong case?

[swdivad]

2 hours ago, Nanuq said:

For a watch that age where is the bracelet wear on the back of the lugs? I wonder if it’s a Phong case?

 

Yes Nanuq, and the watch has been polished also.

 

The seller came back to me... the price is <6500kUSD but no box/papers, or bracelet. He's also said the dial is a service dial... I've passed on purchasing and bought a 16600 full set instead, but here are some lug shots:

 

 

[HandsUpDontShoot]

Hmmmm

[automatico]

"For a watch that age where is the bracelet wear on the back of the lugs?"

 

Good question. 

On a lot of high mileage watches I have also seen the tips of the lugs worn enough that there is a slight taper on the insides of the tips where the outer edges of the bracelet links have rubbed them over the years. 

 

"I wonder if it’s a Phong case?"

 

The cases and artificial 'ageing' are so good now that I can not tell much of the time.  We tend to question a lot of watches (because we have seen it all, or most of it), when the next guy may have no questions at all.

Just about the only difference between a genuine case and a very good 'aged' Phong etc case is the wear patterns (if the lettering and numbers are good enough to pass). 

If it is good enough to pass for genuine... it IS genuine until someone proves otherwise.  

 

Anyone remember the 'genuine' quartz submariners from 25 or 30 years ago?

I still have mine.

 

[Sogeha]

 

1 hour ago, automatico said:

"For a watch that age where is the bracelet wear on the back of the lugs?"

 

Good question. 

On a lot of high mileage watches I have also seen the tips of the lugs worn enough that there is a slight taper on the insides of the tips where the outer edges of the bracelet links have rubbed them over the years. 

 

"I wonder if it’s a Phong case?"

 

The cases and artificial 'ageing' are so good now that I can not tell much of the time.  We tend to question a lot of watches (because we have seen it all, or most of it), when the next guy may have no questions at all.

Just about the only difference between a genuine case and a very good 'aged' Phong etc case is the wear patterns (if the lettering and numbers are good enough to pass). 

If it is good enough to pass for genuine... it IS genuine until someone proves otherwise.  

 

Anyone remember the 'genuine' quartz submariners from 25 or 30 years ago?

I still have mine.

 

 

Please tell me about your “genuine” quartz Submariner 

i have this very none genuine $20 POS and I really like it, it always makes me smile and I wear it for gardening 

 

 

[RichardH]

Here's another one for the Rolex experts... Price is under 7kUSD (no box/papers, or bracelet and looks in extremely good condition. Is it too good to be true?

All OK for me. I. Bought a similar years ago. It is polished unfortunately... Prob by Rolex.... they replace the dials, hands in some cases without even asking in several countries if they feel so ... no patina anymore


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[swdivad]

It's a good looking watch for sure, but in the end, a vintage watch of this age with no patina pretty much ruins it for me. I suppose I'd buy it for 3-4k (still more than it's worth IMO) without the bracelet, box, or papers... but the seller wouldn't go for close than that I think.

[automatico]

The 5513 case may be genuine but the 9 in the serial # is sorta fishy and the lug holes appear to be double drilled aka 'chamfered'.  It does have a few authentic looking specks (aka 'Rot Dots') between the lugs though.  I would not venture a guess if the case is genuine or not. 

'Case Rot' comes in three stages:

1...Rot Dots  (aka Pre Rot).

2...Case Rot  (RDs are deep enough to snag a pin/screwdriver).

3...'Helium Holes'  (easy to spot).

 

"Please tell me about your “genuine” quartz Submariner."

 

It has a plated 'pot metal' case with a 'nip' dial similar to yours and an ISA 1198 quartz movement.  The bracelet has solid steel links with push pins.  Last time I put a batt in it a few years ago it took off running as usual.  Iirc the watch was about $25. 

I have a few nos ISA 1198 movements from back then and they are marked $12, now they are 2 or 3 times that much.

 

I have moved up in life since then...now I have a couple all steel 'submariners' aka 'genumariners' with Seagull ST16 automatics and push pin steel bracelets.  They were $35 each.  The story is they came in the country with plain dials and the dials were printed in the USA somewhere, probably NYC.  You had the choice of black or blue dials (aka 'summer blue') with matching bezels  The lettering on the dials is silver instead of white and a bit sloppy.  They keep pretty good time and are 'Tuff as a Timex'. 

Better to wear them at night or under a sleeve.  

[highoeyazmuhudee]

case is NOT genuine, lumi service parts but old style crown. Someone bought parts and assembled themselves with an after market case.

[RickFlorida]

The case doesn't even have the half-moon shaped cut out for the movement screws.    But the crown guards are not real bad.  I wonder if the case was a Helenarou that was worked and then engraved?