Franken 1601 'pie-pan' dial build - clearance issues

[indept]

Hi guys,

 

I'm currently working on a Franken 1601 build with a gen Rolex 1601 'pie-pan' dial.

These are the specs of the build:

 

ETA 2836-2 clone movement
Gen Rolex 1601 'pie-pan' dial

Dial spacer ring (Raffles)
16200 DJ case for ETA 2836 movement (from Raffles)
DWO 2836 (from Raffles)
Silver DJ hands longer post (Raffles)

 

Before I start to put everything together, I have one concern and that is about the clearance of the hands compared to the stick markers on the dial.

 

I have seen several similar builds come by on the forum and elsewhere on the internet, but never with a 'pie-pan' dial.

I could find one build with similar specs, but I can't seem to get in touch with the builder: https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/gx7w83/just_for_fun_build_1601_dj_mickey/

 

The builder states that: "I had to hand fit the hands and the hand hole at the center of the dial to get everything to go together/fit and work." But I don't really know what he means by that exactly.

 

Therefore, I was hoping if one of you could help me out, either by confirming that my specs would work or explain what the builder of the Mickey watch actually implies.

 

 

 

[Revere]

Talk to @mymanmatt, he can probably enlighten you.

[mymanmatt]

I got your text. Typically when using a pipan dial, the first thing to ck is the position of the stem in the case tube. Be sure it's centered. Mount the movement in the case the way it will be when you're finished. You can raise or lower the movement with movement ring. Once that's done you can work on the hand height. Typically the long post hands are shorter in length than the standard hands, You will probably need to change the cannon pinon. I'm sure you've seen references to an H4. eta also makes an H5 which is usually what you need for a 4 digit build. You will need to change the hour wheel, the minute wheel, and the second wheel. The hour and minute are easy to change as it's just a swap. The second hand is a little harder because you need to remove the train bridge. This is not difficult, but it is very sensitive to alignment when you reinstall it.  If you've never done it before it might be a good idea to take it to a watchsmith that is familiar with that process. If you want to try it, I'll help walk you through the process. Startime does not carry the H5 parts, but there is another popular supplier that does. Do you have the open 6 & 9 overlay? You need one for that build. Good luck and lmk if you have any questions.

[indept]

Thanks for your quick reply!

 

Great tip about the stem/tube alignment. That's definitely something to take into consideration when using this type of dial.

 

I've indeed read that when using a pie-pan dial it possibly means that I have to change to an H4 cannon pinion. 

As I'm quite new to watch building, I was hoping that the long post hands would provide enough clearance on its own. Replacing the cannon pinions might still be quite a challenge for me.

 

I know it can be done (i.e. using a pie-pan dial with a ETA 2836-2 clone movement, 16200 Raffles case and Raffles hands) as is demonstrated in the picture below (not my picture) and explained by the builder in the Reddit post in the link in my opening post.

 

The builder of this watch is using a Seagull 2836 clone movement, but he isn't saying anything about changing the cannon pinions. He does say that "I had to hand fit the hands and the hand hole at the center of the dial to get everything to go together/fit and work." But I don't really know what he means by that exactly. I was hoping this step would be some minor adjustment or something.

 

Do you perhaps know what he could mean by this, or how he fixed the (possible) clearance issue (it's an older post and he doesn't respond to my messages, so can't ask him directly)?

 

Btw. I do have the open 6 &  9 DWO.

 

[indept]

When I was starting to line everything up today for the build, and decided to go with the H4 CP option, I all of a sudden noticed that the dial is actually rather small compared to what I'm used to (28mm).

 

In fact, the dial measures 27mm. This seems pretty odd to me, as I have never seen a 27mm pie-pan dial before, nor any Rolex watch with a 27mm pie-pan dial.

 

Could someone enlighthen me to which this type of Rolex watch  the dial might belong?

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by indept

[thom.son]

On 10/31/2020 at 5:42 AM, mymanmatt said:

The hour and minute are easy to change as it's just a swap. The second hand is a little harder because you need to remove the train bridge. This is not difficult, but it is very sensitive to alignment when you reinstall it. 

 

Ah I literally broke the escape wheel because of doing this by myself Lol.

[automatico]

"In fact, the dial measures 27mm.  This seems pretty odd to me, as I have never seen a 27mm pie-pan dial before, nor any Rolex watch with a 27mm pie-pan dial.  Could someone enlighten me to which this type of Rolex watch  the dial might belong?"

 

I just now measured a pie pan dial from a rlx 1601 and it is 27.9mm in diameter, next I measured one from a 1603...same size.  Never saw one that was 27.0mm.  I measured the 1603 and 1601 dials with a high quality Mitutoyo caliper.

Check your caliper against a standard of some sort that you know the size of...you never know about digital calipers.  I have a lower priced digital caliper that fibs now and then and can be off .5mm or more. 

 

[jmb]

I suspect this might be some sort of "fantasy" refinished dial that might have started life as an Oyster Perpetual Date.

[Drummania]

Indept—looks like your caliper is a bit off. I see 28mm from the ruler itself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[indept]

I double checked, and you're indeed correct. How stupid... 

[indept]

For now I will put the build on hold though, until I receive the H4 CP kit. I hope this will resolve the issue.