Today's best 6542, the "Pussy Galore"

[curiousbunny]

I've been out of game for many years.

 

What are current "buy list" 6542s in your opinion? All appreciated.

Edited April 8, 2021 by curiousbunny

[curiousbunny]

Better question for me is, who sells BP factory 6542?

[freddy333]

Like you, I have been out of the game for some time, so I cannot definitely answer your question. However, have you educated yourself as to what makes a gen 6542? Can you tell the difference between a gen & an average rep copy? Do you know what to look for? How much does cost affect your decision making (are you more budget-conscious or more of a well-heeled neurotic-perfectionist)? Have you perused RWG's Watches section to see if any of the recommended dealers offer a rep that does not offend your senses too much (no rep or franken is perfect)?

 

Posting with an indication that you have done YOUR due diligence goes a long way to getting members to elicit useful replies.

 

[alligoat]

ROLGMT186F -GMT Ref.6542 Vintage Red/Blue SS/SS Blk/Yw Asia 2836 [ROLGMT186F] - $278.00 : Trusty Time Watch, Your Trusty Watch Shop

 

ref.6542 Gilt Dial,Gmt-Master (vintagepowertime.com)

 

Here's the Trustytime budget rep and the TS watch with some aging.

I'm not aware of a BP 6542, but look around.

Like Freddy says, you need to figure out how far you want to go. BTW, as I recall, his is a pretty much all custom job. 

[freddy333]

1 hour ago, alligoat said:

BTW, as I recall, his is a pretty much all custom job. 

 

Excepting the repainted dial, all (mostly NOS as of the date of its assembly) gen (the black dial is my Phase 1 franken). 

[curiousbunny]

I would like correct handstack, DG movement. Ebay are now selling Superluminova Lume, maybe I could relume it.

 

I heard JoeyB and Freddy does great dials,  how much would it cost for one? I hate the vintaged dials, much prefer glit with new white lume. 

 

 

I want the best watch case, then modify in the future as better parts are available. How are Tiger-Concept case? The dials are bigger than current rep. www.tiger-concept.com/6542-watch.html (tiger-concept.com)

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by curiousbunny

[curiousbunny]

The ones from TD are all vintaged with high beat movements. A new dial is and correct handstack on DG movement in a must.

 

I love how white markers pops out on black dial. Love the 3D effect. 

[curiousbunny]

How do I remove the acrylic from bakelite bezel? I want to relume.

[alligoat]

The Tiger Concept watches aren't worth it- too many faults, big crown, big dial, probably no lugholes.

The cartel 1655 that Josh sells with the dg3804 can be made into a 6542 if you're up to shaving the cgs off the case and can find a correct bezel. I believe Joey B did a 6542 with the cartel 1655 case- maybe you could check with him.

Or you take Trusty's 6542 and swap in a DG3804, but you'd need a DWO, or maybe a 2846-2 with the GMT gear added.  

 

[curiousbunny]

10 hours ago, alligoat said:

The Tiger Concept watches aren't worth it- too many faults, big crown, big dial, probably no lugholes.

The cartel 1655 that Josh sells with the dg3804 can be made into a 6542 if you're up to shaving the cgs off the case and can find a correct bezel. I believe Joey B did a 6542 with the cartel 1655 case- maybe you could check with him.

Or you take Trusty's 6542 and swap in a DG3804, but you'd need a DWO, or maybe a 2846-2 with the GMT gear added.  

 

 

 

That's great, trusty's 6542 would be my choice.

 

One final consideration. I like a Sapphire crystal and sapphire bezel instead of bakelite. I dislike how fragile bezel is.

Edited April 9, 2021 by curiousbunny

[Ronin]

19 hours ago, alligoat said:

Or you take Trusty's 6542 and swap in a DG3804, but you'd need a DWO, or maybe a 2846-2 with the GMT gear added.  

 

 

A DG3804 will usually have a proper DWO for Rolex 15xx dials.   I did a 1675 years ago with a Gen Case, Gen Dial, BUT with a DG3804.  I used the stock DG3804 movement without custom DWO without issue.  The DG3804 I used came out of a "Chronotac" GMT Homage watch.  At the time, the 3804's Ofrei was selling had a different DWO so YMMV. 

 

You also have the Hangzhou 6460 Automatic GMT Movement DATE at 3.00 ETA 2836-2 GMT Clone - option.  HR sells one with proper DWO - https://helenarou.com/hangzhou-6460-automatic-gmt-movement-date-at-300-eta-283646030028362.html

 

So that begs another question, is the date window position the same on a 6542 as the 1675.  Going off the fact they both use a Tropic 116, me thinks so.  🙂 

...and yet another question in building a 6542 out of a Cartel base, would the 'pan' genuine style 6542 dial be a mistake vs getting a flat dial-feet style dial say from a 1675?

 

[curiousbunny]

Is Jtime and cartel case the same?

[curiousbunny]

I looked and its not the same. However, i cannot judge the lug length.  

 

Are cartel lugs actually longer, are my eyes playing tricks?

[Ronin]

1 hour ago, curiousbunny said:

Is Jtime and cartel case the same?

 

Yes

 

36 minutes ago, curiousbunny said:

I looked and its not the same. However, i cannot judge the lug length.  

 

Are cartel lugs actually longer, are my eyes playing tricks?

 

Genuine is 47.4mm - lug to lug

JTime is 48.4mm - lug to lug

 

Lug 'Hole' to Lug 'Hole', oddly is flipped

Genuine is 43.9 Hole to Hole

JTime is 42.8 Hole to Hole

 

You are not wrong.  This optical appearance you are seeing it clear.  JTime is 1mm longer and the bracelet is pulled in 1mm.  

 

Below is JTime with a Genuine C&I bracelet.  You can see the profile & length difference.  This is exaggerated by the C&I's end-links being stubbier.  It is still a pretty good watch and these lugs could be reshaped to fix the issue.

 

 

 

[curiousbunny]

Cartel ROLGMT186A - GMT Ref.6542 Vintage Red/Blue SS/SS Blk Asia 2836 [ROLGMT186A] - $278.00 : Trusty Time Watch, Your Trusty Watch Shop

 

Jtime's GMT Master 6542 Vintage Bakelite Bezel Best Edition Black Dial on SS Bracelet A2836 (Custom Hand Made) (jtime.cc)

 

The side seems thinner and more accurate on Jtime's.  I'm still not sure if case is same. Engineers math work with approximation, even with approximation, its geometry is not close enough. It's funny, because China has highest number of 1st place awards in International Math Olympiad, International Mathematical Olympiad - Wikipedia..

 

Math cannot be their restriction unless they suddenly do worse in university and workplace, tooling or intentional flaw must be the reason. If they truly tried with modern tooling, we'd have a perfect clone by now.

Edited April 12, 2021 by curiousbunny

[curiousbunny]

Maybe the angles are playing tricks on me.

 

 

Jtime

 

 

Trustytime's Cartel

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by curiousbunny

[Ronin]

I think you are confusing the use of 'cartel'.  It is a meaningless term that simply indicates Chinese Volume Replica TD's.  All of the dealers basically have access to the same watches/factories and the same prices. However, there are different versions from different factory's (eg. NOOB, BP, VSF, etc.) and certain TDs may prefer a certain factory.  Moving past the cartel (I hate typing that), you get into the Vietnam and Craft stuff that more closely mimicks 1:1 vintage Rolex.  For example the going rate for a complete Vietnam 6542 with 1035 movement will still set you back $8000 and the 1035 movement will probably be crap.

 

The J-Time is different, I have 2 of them.  They are actually built to order. 

The Trusty Time is most likely BP factory or whatever factory similarly turn our "Tiger Concept's"...

 

The J-Time, being "built to order" is fine/better if you know how to handle, fix, further modify.  Out of 2, my Black Dial 6542 had Hand alignment issues.  The hour and minute hand needed reinstalled by me.  My White Dial 6542, I can see the Crown Tube is at an angle, and the stem length causes some issues.  Also, the J-Time has lots of sharp edges.  I ended up "softening" the bezel coin edge with a diamond file and the lugs.  (The lugs still need reshaped in my opinion).  I also removed the bezel to fix the spring-wire to add more tension.

 

The Trusty (BP?) will probably be a better grab and go as it looks more like a Homage turned Replica...

 

Just be prepared.  It is rare to buy a replica and have everything just work. 

[curiousbunny]

2 minutes ago, Ronin said:

I think you are confusing the use of 'cartel'.  It is a meaningless term that simply indicates Chinese Volume Replica TD's.  All of the dealers basically have access to the same watches/factories and the same prices. However, there are different versions from different factory's (eg. NOOB, BP, VSF, etc.) and certain TDs may prefer a certain factory.  Moving past the cartel (I hate typing that), you get into the Vietnam and Craft stuff that more closely mimicks 1:1 vintage Rolex.  For example the going rate for a complete Vietnam 6542 with 1035 movement will still set you back $8000 and the 1035 movement will probably be crap.

 

The J-Time is different, I have 2 of them.  They are actually "built to order".  The Trusty is most likely BP factory or whatever factory similarly turn our "Tiger Concept's"...

 

The J-Time, being "built to order" is fine if you know how to handle, fix, further modify.  Out of 2, my Black Dial 6542 had Hand alignment issues.  The hour and minute hand needed reinstalled by me.  My White Dial 6542, I can see the Crown Tube is at an angle, and the stem length causes some issues.

 

The Trusty (BP?) will probably be a better grab and go as it looks more like a Homage turned Replica...

 

Just be prepared.  It is rare to buy a replica and have everything just work. 

 

Jtime's case side isn't any different than homage model?

[Ronin]

They are completely different watches.  The J-Time has a thinner case, better centered crown tube, and Genuine like construction of the Bezel.  (I can make gen Crystal and Gen-like Bezel fit)

 

The Trusty/BP has a thicker case, off center crown, and totally different Bezel/crystal construction.  The Trusty doesn't come close to genuine looking in my eye.  ... but it will probably be more reliable. 

[alligoat]

I'd certainly get the J-time after looking at those pictures!

[freddy333]

On 4/10/2021 at 3:50 AM, Ronin said:

is the date window position the same on a 6542 as the 1675.  Going off the fact they both use a Tropic 116, me thinks so.  

 

It has been awhile, so do not quote me, but if I remember correctly, I believe the '42 uses a 115 crystal & the '75 uses the 116. One of the differences between the 2 crystals is the location of the cyclops.

[curiousbunny]

I contacted Jtime, and he said its discontinued... Maybe it's "too perfect" or too cheap.

[Ronin]

1 hour ago, curiousbunny said:

I contacted Jtime, and he said its discontinued... Maybe it's "too perfect" or too cheap.

I think the opposite. I think they were too problematic for the average rep buyer. Like I said, I have two of them and they both needed work. Once fixed up they are the best bang for the buck perhaps. 
 

I think people probably purchased them, expected them to be “grab and go” which they are not. He didn’t want the hassle. 

[curiousbunny]

Let me tell you a secret. The vietnam cases are built in Guangdong, China, Not Vietnam.  Guangdong and southern China has been the technically advanced manufacturing hub for decades.  Most TD get reps from more north. Li/Jtime's case is built in Guangdong, Yuki parts are from Hong Kong. Many suppliers in the south are small time rep makers, but big time legitimate product makers. CNC and laser trimming can easily replicate any watch.

 

Vietnam has Cantonese speakers, the same language Guangdong, China. Both languages have 6 tones, Mandrin has 4 tones.  Li from Jtime is from Guangzhou, and his case doesn't look much different than Vietnam case from my eyes. Yuki is from Vietnam, but his suppliers are from Hong Kong. Think about it, manufacturing in Vietnam is low-tech compared to Gaungdong province China.

 

Think about it. Cantonese are known for creating Macau's gambling industry worth twice of Las Vegas ( streets lined with casinos, encouraging the rich to gamble 100k per hand, loop-holes for both sneaking money out of China and criminals to bring international money into China), Hong Kong (banking, tax loop-holes for corporations for legal money laundering).. All using modern technology. If its anyone using modern technology and higher IQ for criminal behaviors, it's Guangdong province. Vietnamese in America were known for street gangs (white people in Texas were afraid of them for decades, kids bringing guns to high school, school stabbings, theft, vandalism, murder, illegal rifles, unregistered handguns, illegal DVD, kids turn older to 20s and move toward selling millions of dollars worth of heroin) but they weren't known for being high IQ smart. Street smart and high tempered, maybe.

 

Articles from USA studied violence and gang in Vietnamese youth culture. Why the [censored] would white people in Texas, the gun state, worry about Vietnamese kids walking around in groups? The vietnamese resort to murder for very little reason, and bullying them meant your kids get harmed too. Chemical "accidents", "accidental car crash" or bullets. There is also a word/popular term for killing an entire family in Vietnamese language, children aren't spared either. Ask Texans on social media or Reddit who lived near the vietnamese community and they tell you about violence, theft, hitman for hire and drug sales to surrounding neighborhoods.

 

Australia's biggest casino whale was also a vietnamese heroin kingpin, 

 

 

Macau and Hong Kong's GDP per capital income are 84k USD and 48k per USD year respectively, that's richer than Beijing (24) - political and science research centers. Shanghai (also 24k) - wall street of China.. I guarantee you, stores with watches over 100k USD are easily found on high street stores of Hong Kong and Macau, yes, this is capitalist version of China. 1 cup of coffee cost over 4$ USD at average café, food is $20 per person for entrée. Genuine vintage Rolex are collected by owners of manufacturing companies. Sometimes replicated by owners (or family members) from knowledge of CNC and laser trimming tools. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by curiousbunny

[curiousbunny]

3D scanners, and CNC is enough to manufacture a near perfect case. Some hand polishing with an agent, 1mm of metal would be easily trimmed in short time. Hand polishing trustytime's case won't get you desirable effects since its geometry is wrong. The Vietnam case selling for over 1,000 is testing the market prices. 

 

Many Vietnamese in America end up learning Cantonese, since their connection to Hong Kong after fleeing the Vietnam war, some men learned street trades from "Triads" of Hong Kong, then started their own gang culture. Triads kept things quiet, but the "viet" gangs in 70s-90s were outright murderous. Black gangs in Harlem or Bronx NYC didn't want to touch them. Rednecks gun-trotters in Texas warn each other of "little vietnamese men". The hispanics used vietnamese connection as entrance to the Golden Triangle in Asia where heroin is grown. Kids went from gangbanging to selling insurance and "insurance", the older ones who continued street trades began importing over a billion dollars worth of narcotics in Texas alone.

 

The spa massage parlors were owned by the same gangs. The Atlanta, Georgia's Spa shooting would had NEVER happened if this was 1980s, "viets" would had shot him dead, and the kid would know better not to try.

 

It could be Vietnamese sellers with Cantonese connections.. It could be Cantonese sellers pretending to be Vietnamese. It could also be "Hoa people", the ethnic Chinese in living in Vietnam and Cantonese being the language.  

Edited April 14, 2021 by curiousbunny