Mod outside....ROLX guts?

[LonelyMountain]

I have recently discovered the world of Seiko mods.  I am super interested in getting into this as a DIY hobby...what actions to buy...where?  cases?  crystals?  straps? etc... etc...

 

But...I am really intrigued with the idea of getting a nice Rolex clone movement and modding the outside in the same way...a unique watch that keeps precise time (+/- 6 seconds per day....max -10/+15 seconds per day, plus hacking) and does not require a safe to store it

 

Also, any advice on where to find the seals and cases for a mod that provides outstanding WR?

 

 

Advice/Thoughts please?

 

Thanks!

[kidcreole]

If you’re building something unique go with eta cases rather than RLX. ETA will likely keep better time than a Chinese clone if you’re that way inclined. I’d check out Ali and eBay for bits. It should be fairly straightforward and fun. Best of luck!

[Nanuq]

Boy, welcome to the rabbit hole.  Where do I start?

 

It used to be modding involved Seiko cases only.  I've built lots based on the SKX781 and there are plenty of people making parts for that.  Many other people used other cases.  Then the Prospex models came along (compressing the timeline a bit) like the SRP777 and the suppliers jumped all over that too.  Then people such as yourself started wanting more cases with crowns at 3:00 instead of 4:00 and the suppliers started making custom cases like that.  Now?  You can get almost anything you want. 

 

Almost all of them use the NH35 or NH36 movement.  These are the unbranded version of the Seiko 4R36, otherwise identical.  They're great movements, they (can) keep COSC time and they're durable.  And they're cheap.  $30 gets you another, there's no sense even repairing one.

 

So once you have your case and movement, you can mix and match to your heart's content.  I did this for awhile and made two "Doxa" lookalikes out of SRP777 cases.  They came out great.  Here are two of them:

 

 

 

Both have stock Seiko SRP777 cases.  Both have Yobokies dials and hands.  The orange one has a bezel from Yobokies, the yellow one has a bezel called "Revenge One" from One Second Closer.  The orange one has a domed crystal from Crystaltimes, the yellow one has a polished chapter ring from Yobokies and a flat AR coated crystal from Yobokies.  Both have generic beads of rice bands available from eBay for cheap, and the endlinks (that fit the band perfectly and take a little shaping for the case) come from WatchGecko.  Crowns and casebacks came from Crystaltimes and Dagaz.

 

This is just an example of what can be done.  Get an inexpensive set of watch tools and go for it.  If you screw up some hands trying to reset them, or if you scratch a dial, it's no big loss.  Good luck!

 

https://usa.crystaltimes.net/product-category/cases/

https://www.watchgecko.com/metal-watch-straps/accessories-parts

https://usa.crystaltimes.net/product-category/srp-turtle-mod-parts/

https://one-second-closer.com/shop/the-revenge-one-polished-seiko-srp-new-turtle-mod-bezel-ntd-05-p/

https://calibercorner.com/seiko-caliber-nh36/

https://www.theyobokies.com/?mod=product&sec=item&task=detail&id=684

https://www.dagazwatch.com/apps/webstore/

https://suppaparts.com/Beads-of-Rice-bracelet.php

 

[LonelyMountain]

Nanuq...Thanks for the info!  I usually research something forever before I take the plunge into doing it.  I'm one step closer to jumping in with both feet.

 

Question though...how I make a 300m WR piece, and not just one that says it on the face?

[Nanuq]

The Seiko divers are pretty conservative with their ratings. Lots of tests online about true pressure capacity.

[automatico]

"I am really intrigued with the idea of getting a nice Rolex clone movement and modding the outside in the same way...a unique watch that keeps precise time (+/- 6 seconds per day....max -10/+15 seconds per day, plus hacking) and does not require a safe to store it."

 

There are a few different rlx 3135 Chinaclones and iirc one in particular stands out and the others fall by the wayside.  I have never owned or been inside one and this is from remembering some of what I have read...you might read back in the older posts and see what's what.  Besides that, most need cleaning/oiling upon delivery and this is not going to be inexpensive and many/most repair shops will not work on them.  

Since there are no spare parts available for these movements, sooner or later no parts = a non-running watch.  A few genuine parts may work but genuine rlx parts = $$.

 

"ETA will likely keep better time than a Chinese clone if you’re that way inclined."

 

I agree.  Many of the Chinaclones of any type can turn out to be junk (putting it politely).  China 28xx etaclones are hit and miss and the only parts I have had much luck with are the auto wind assemblies.

Nuc's Seiko advice is a safe route to take and will not start you out on the wrong track.  Starting out with a rlx 3135 Chinaclone dud can sour you on the whole experience.

 

A swiss ETA is also a good choice and since the prices have gone waay up on them you might look for one in a nos or 'like new' watch from the 1980s/1990s at a lower price than a new 28xx ETA movement.  Nos ETA etc movements usually need c/o but any competent watch mechanic can work on them.  Ask friends and relatives if they know a retired watch repair guy and see if one might still be working at home.  That way you will not get the 'doctor price'.

 

Franchise mall stores/chrome and glass sideshows etc usually charge too much for repairs because they farm the work out and add 40 or 50 percent for their trouble.

'C & G Sideshows' = the average jewelry store that sells a few (mostly quartz) watch brands and advertises 'we repair all brands'.  Few will have a repair guy on site other than an employee who changes watch batts armed with a dull case knife and hammer.  Ask them what color of 'Rodico' they like best (green or blue) to test their expertise.  Ha! 

I like blue but my 'specialty' is watch-botching.   

 

"Boy, welcome to the rabbit hole."

 

Frame these Wise Words and mount them on the wall.   

 

[alligoat]

The best Rolex clone 3135 movement is the VR3135 at this time. I picked one up recently for $155 shipped to CONUS. As automatico says, you may need to have it serviced at some point- there's a couple of guys that do it- Tickleshoes and Michael at Watch Service NY- you might do better looking for them at RWI. Mine is in a late model TC case- a 16610. 

I've been doing Seiko mods for the last 1-1/2 years- I really like the NH35/6 movements and there's a whole slew of mods that you can do to customize your Seiko watch. I've used Namoki and DLW Watch parts on mine as well as Dagaz. The world of Seiko mods is mind boggling. I particularly like taking a $200 Seiko watch and ending up with a Rolex homage for $500 or less. You might check out Seiko Mods Dubai on Instagram- he does some cool watches. There's a whole list of modders doing these Seiko mods- check it out at DLW Watches or Namoki.

 

There's really no need to worry about 300m WR- you'll never go more than 100-125 ft as a recreational diver. You might want to read up on saturation diving and learn about heliox, trimix and nitrox. Also, check out nitrogen narcosis- that's what happens when you go too deep with the wrong air mix. Also, you'll need some good equipment to test for 200m WR. My friend has a Bergeon tester and he only tests to about 3 atm even though it's rated for 6 atm- apparently it's risky pushing a tester to it's limit. You'd need some specialized and expensive equipment to test for 300m WR, but if you have deep pockets, go for it.

[Nanuq]

What alligoat said.  You hear the stories "Oh, 300m water resistance means you might be able to shower without flooding it".   That's a load of crap in my opinion.  I'm an ex-commercial diver with 1000 hours at stupid depths and the only watch I ever flooded was when a Rolex helium release valve failed.  I've had all manner of reps (yes, the cheap Chinese knock-offs) in the ocean all over the world, I've dived with them, beat them to death, and none ever leaked.  If you're buying a copy of a tried-and-true case design, then as long as the seals are right, you're pretty safe.  The Seiko MOD watches will go deeper than you'll ever want to.

 

We did a topic here years ago about making a pressure checker from a Nalgene water bottle.  I've done that and tested my watches to 90psi air pressure, which equals 52 meters seawater depth, give or take a little.  That's plenty freaking deep for almost all weekender divers.  And yes you'll be able to shower with it. 

[LonelyMountain]

Nanuq....thanks...I see knock offs and always wonder...and then I don't spend the money...thumbs up!  

 

If I make a mod as a gift and tell them it's safe to swim/snorkel/dive, I don't want a family member to get pissed at me.

 

 

[automatico]

Rule of  

Highly respected brand name watches...200M = 200 Meters Vertically, under water.

No name watches/most replicas...200M = 200 Meters From The Boat Dock Horizontally, above water.

 

All kidding aside, I have not (knock on wood) had a rlx type acryic or sapphire case leak after resealing (or replacing) the case tube/crown, crystal, and gaskets.  One exception is case corrosion...it might not leak today but it never gets better.

 

All cases were tested at 90psi to 100psi without the movement after lubricating the gaskets/case back threads with Krytox etc.  Always perform the first test w/o the movement because with 'Dunkin' Donut' type water testers...any small leak can sometimes blow the crystal off and flood the case. 

 

Also with 'DD' type testers...properly working He valves will usually let air bubbles OUT at first if there is a leak, sometimes followed by water if the case is not pulled out of the water quickly.  Defective He valves may let water IN.  He valves can be a problem if not maintained, checked for corrosion and gasket defects.  

[LonelyMountain]

Thanks to all for the insight!  It has certainly led me down the rabbit hole!  But I am having a wonderful time down here!

 

New question then...is there a quality Seiko (or other) GMT caliber out there with excellent value?  What would you recommend?

[Nanuq]

We'll have to let others chime in on that, I've never messed with GMT movements (I just wear them)

[alligoat]

The Seiko NH39 is referred to as a GMT movement but it says 3 hands and 24 hours, so I'm not sure about it. There also may be some more expensive Seiko GMTs, but I haven't run across them. There's also quartz GMTs but I've never messed with them. 

The DG 3804 is a chinese GMT- I've got a couple that have hung in there well.

Next up would be the 2836-2 asian clone with the GMT feature- these are maybe a step above the DG3804.

A Swiss 2836-2 can be modified (typically by the chinese) into a GMT- this should be a little more reliable than the asian clone 2836-2 GMT.

A Swiss GMT watch would use either the eta or Sellita movement, but it would be a complete watch and run in the $500-1000 range or more.

 Mathey-Tissot GMT Automatic Batman Bezel Men's Watch H903ATNB H903ATNB - Watches, Mathey-Tissot - Jomashop

I'm not sure which movement is in this Mathey Tissot- but it says automatic. I recently picked up another M-T watch- no GMT and it had a Ronda R-150 movement- it's not an eta 2824-2, but it's the same size and takes eta hands and dials. It first came out in 2016.

There are also Rolex clone GMT movements, but I haven't tried any of them out- they may need to be serviced and there's maybe no parts avaiable. So you could easily spent over $300 and still be SOL.

[automatico]

AG:

"A Swiss 2836-2 can be modified (typically by the chinese) into a GMT- this should be a little more reliable than the asian clone 2836-2 GMT."

 

I have owned a few of them with swiss ETA 2836 and Asian 24H conversions plus a few 100% Asian 2836GMT clones.  The hand stack was 24H 12H, M, Sec from dial up and the 24H hand was not adjustable on any of mine.

All were trouble free except the swiss models are a pain to install a DWO because of not having much room between components.  You also may need to trim one of the DW hold down plates just a hair or use one from a clone.  It is easy to do using the clone part for a pattern.  My Asian GMT clones came with rlx type numbers already printed on the date wheel.  Afaik you can swap the 24H parts (and probably the DW) from an Asian 28xx etaclone GMT to a swiss ETA 2836 as I have done it a few times.

 

You need to use a swiss ETA 2836 or etaclone 2836 base movement so there will be enough space between the 24H hand and dial and 24H and 12H hand...2836 has taller CP etc.    

The 2836 types also have dates that flip immediately, not gradually.

Never worked on a swiss ETA 2836 GMT with an adjustable 24H hand.

 

The ETA 2893-2 is a factory GMT but they are $300 and up new.

 

AG:

"The DG 3804 is a chinese GMT- I've got a couple that have hung in there well."

 

I've had good luck with them too.  They are aggravating to work on because the fit and finish is not too hot but they are tough and reliable.  Turn the crown in one direction (in the first notch) to change the date and the opposite direction to advance the 24H hand.  Do not know if the 24H hand drive gives trouble when reset over and over or not.

[kidcreole]

The vr3186 has proven very reliable as a gmt and is service friendly compared to other Chinese movements. I’ve had a fair bit of experience with dg3804 too. If they’re running leave them alone as they are very temperamental. You’d never service one. At less than $40 just replace is easier and hope you don’t need to swap date wheels.

[LonelyMountain]

I keep seeing 200m WR mods...but every once in a while I see one where the maker has used a dial that specifies 300m WR.  

 

Is this done with a different gasket?  Where is a good source for cases/backs/crystals/gaskets that can be modded into a 300 meter watch?

[alligoat]

you're missing the point. If a rep watch says 300m, that's just what the dial says- it doesn't mean it, If a real watch says 300 m you still don't need to worry- you will never go that deep.

100m or 200m will work fine.

[Sogeha]

1 hour ago, LonelyMountain said:

I keep seeing 200m WR mods...but every once in a while I see one where the maker has used a dial that specifies 300m WR.  

 

Is this done with a different gasket?  Where is a good source for cases/backs/crystals/gaskets that can be modded into a 300 meter watch?

 

This is one of the biggest WIS myths. If you don’t saturation dive you don’t need a 300 metre depth rating, if you do saturation dive you don’t need a 300 metre depth rating on your watch because you will be using a proper dive computer and not an obsolete piece of man jewellery 

 

I have a PADI open water cert that covers me to an impressive 18 metres. 200 is cold and dark and unless you are very well qualified it will be small consolation to know your watch will still be ticking when they pull your cold lifeless body out. I did two seasons diving with a fake Casio bombmaker with a depth rating of zero. I still have it, it still works

 

Also if you open the watch, the depth rating is down to you and your greasing the seals and pressure testing

[Nanuq]

^^^^what Sogeha said

 

Why the fascination with 300m?  By 150 - 200 feet it's dark, monotone, there's nothing to see, no fun to be had, it's just work.  Deeper is darker and harder work.

 

Increasing depth requires a lot more than a thicker crystal.  The whole structure must be beefed up because pressure comes from everywhere.  Why do you think a Sea Dweller caseback is more domed than a Submariner, which is more domed than a GMT Master?   

 

Last time I had my 1665 in the Rolex AD we took it apart, checked it out, then he assembled it for a pressure test.  The tester has a finger that rests on the caseback and he ran it up to ungodly pressure... and the caseback didn't flinch.  Nice and stiff.    

 

[automatico]

"...you don’t need a 300 metre depth rating on your watch because you will be using a proper dive computer and not an obsolete piece of man jewelry." 

 

True.

A friend was a certified sat/deep water diver/welder and the company he worked for said if they caught anyone wearing a 'toy dive watch' on the job they would be suspended for X number of days.

He wore a company supplied dive computer when needed.

He was told 'toy dive watches' were for off duty when hitting 'dive bars' looking for _____.  Fill in the blank.     

 

Had another friend that did a lot of recreational diving and he wore a Jules Borel Mallard 'Dura Diver' quartz watch. 

 

 

 

[Nanuq]

Lots of guys wear a "toy watch" in chambers between active shifts so they can retain a little sanity, keeping a connection with the outside world.  It's a dry environment and the dive master can't crawl up your butt for bypassing the computer.  But that's also when the HE leaks in causing blown crystals when you start blowing down.  Yeah "every watch has a helium valve... the crown".  That's how most high end dive watches that flood, get flooded.  The owners forget.

[automatico]

"Lots of guys wear a "toy watch" in chambers between active shifts so they can retain a little sanity, keeping a connection with the outside world."

 

I can believe it.  I would go the rest of the way nuts in an underwater pressure cooker.

The deep water kid lasted 10 or 12 years before he quit for good.  He said the stress and danger was not worth the $$ to him after he got married and I can't blame him.  He was a cool kid, one of my wife's favorite students in the fourth grade and I got to know him when he came by, still in High School, every week or two wanting to ride or buy my 'nos' Cagiva Alazurra aka 'Fake Ducati'.  I couldn't let him ride it because it would no longer be 'nos' (it had never been titled or prepped) and he did not have any $$ to buy it.

He took off to California for dive training after HS and I sold the (still nos) fake Duck to a museum.

Have not seen him in a few years.

 

Rest of the Cagiva story:

A few years back a guy called and asked if I owned a Cagiva 650.  I told him I had one in 1987 but sold it to a museum.  He said he bought it from the museum and the bill of sale was in my name and it had never been registered.  He mailed the MSO etc to me and I registered it and 'sold' it to him for $1, thirty years after I bought it new. 

I sold a 'nos' yellow/black 'Kenny Roberts' Yamaha RZ 350 to the museum at the same time but do not know what happened to it.

Had a black 1977 Suzuki 750 Le Mans aka 'Water Buffalo' at the same time with 3000 miles on it but the museum buyer did not have room in his trailer for it.  The Suz had a Walter Strader 3 into 1 expansion chamber, Koni rear shocks, flat bars etc.

I could post a list of the MC I have owned but no one would believe it.  I have zero now.

A friend offered me his low mileage HD 'Garbage Wagon' (free!) but I declined...too big and heavy, could not hold it up.  Had a Yamaha Royal Star with the 'full kit' and that was bad enough.  All my so-called friends called it 'The Good Humor Ice Cream Truck' when I rode it because it was Big and white.   

Garbage Wagon = full touring kit...shinweild, battlesags etc.

 

Here is a Cagiva exactly like the one I had:

 

Here is a 1985 'KR' RZ:

 

Royal Star...Ha!