The Legality Of Replicas

[capice]

Where did you get this information from? I couldn't find anything official on internet to confirm this.

I did find lots of official information about bringing a maximum of 3 replicas per category (jewelry, clothing, CD's and DVD's etc.) into this country coming back from holidays.

Also curious to know what the law says about possesion of reps....

Pat, look at this

http://www.veelzijdigmaleisie.nl/faq-nepar...en-maleisie.htm

Sorry it is in Dutch

[scoobs1971]

Pat, look at this

http://www.veelzijdigmaleisie.nl/faq-nepar...en-maleisie.htm

Sorry it is in Dutch

Indeed I have read more articles like this. So it seems that you still can bring a maximum of 3 reps for your own use through customs.

But I still would like to know what the official rules are about possessing replicas. Couldn't find any official documents about that.

[capice]

According to Dutch Law ( art 337 WvSr) the possession of counterfit goods in a amount of 3 or less is not punishable by law. Returning home from a holiday bringing 3 watches is not punishable, 4 or more watches you will have the choice to be prosecuted or to have the watches destroyed by customs.

Buying on internet is allways punsinable, if only 1 watch or 100, no difference. Customs will, if they seize your order, contact the brands and ask if it is gen or fake and will give the brandslaywers acces to your address.

All counties in Europe CAN follow the European guidelines concerning Piracy(art 11) but don't have to. Italy is starting a war against piracy and counterfeit goods this year. Fines up to 10.000 euro's and jailtime is a possibility.

Same in Belgium even possessing a replica is punsihable, you will be prosecuted or facing high fines up to 100.000 euro.

Seems like the Netherlands are behaving the same as with softdrugs, buying for own use is ok, selling in large quantities not

[offshore]

Well my friend...we all know....these things ARE... soft drugs

O/S

[Toadtorrent]

Well my friend...we all know....these things ARE... soft drugs

Only the gold ones are soft...the SS ones are hard drugs...that's why more people are hooked on 316L than on PVD and 5mil plating.

[scoobs1971]

According to Dutch Law ( art 337 WvSr) the possession of counterfit goods in a amount of 3 or less is not punishable by law.

I found this offical government instruction guide (=Dutch) hxxp://archief.om.nl/beleid/beleidsregel.php?rid=306.

From what I read in this article I understand that if they catch you with a collection of reps in your posession (not only travelling, but also at home or at a GTG) these are the consequences:

1. 3 reps for your own use are tolerated;

2. a total between 3 and 200 reps is seized and you'll get a fine depending on the size of the collection (E 250,- - E 1.700,-);

3. more than 200 reps are seized and you get prosecuted.

Importing and exporting (post/courier/cargo) from/to outside the EU is not tolerated at all. Goods will be seized and registered in a file. If they seized more than 10 reps (even if it's in different packages) the copyright owner can also file a civil suit. Apparently with less than 10 reps seized they can't......

Trading, selling and/or advertising to sell is also not allowed.

[cdv]

Umm... maybe not!

"Trademark violations: Counterfeit watches are divided into two groups. The first group comprises low-priced timekeeping imitations. A cheap counterfeit watch features the name of a prestigious brand, but lacks its design and functions.

Trade-dress or Design Violations: The second group involves counterfeit watches designed to resemble the original (a trade dress violation). Some high-priced counterfeit watches are produced from better materials and have golden parts and leather straps. "

That is what I was looking for. I need to research the "Trade-dress or Design Violation" issue a little more. Thanks.

While not having the PAM name on a watch might seem ok, certain other feature (such as the crownguard on PAMs and I'm assume the Triplock mechanism in Rolex crowns) may be subject to trademarks and therefore, even if your watch doesn't say "OP," if it has the same crownguard, its still in violation of an existing trademark.

This seems to be similar to the issue raised by ferrariz, but I could see the crownguard or Triplock mechanisms themselves being trademarked. I was speaking in more general terms of just the body and design, but again, ferrariz point seems to cover that as well. For example, take a Black Magic, pretty distinctive without looking at the crown or dials. So under the trade dress or design issue, it would appear that I would still have a problem if I used the same body, screws, bezel, etc. with no reference or markings related to HBB. That would seem harsh, but I guess it is the design that makes it so popular to some.

[Jimmythree]

quote =

US member here...

For many US members, their Home States law is going to be of the most interest. The federal government leaves many many things up to the states... It wouldn't suprise me to find that different US states = different laws re: reps.

/quote

A local flea market vendor (southern USA) got busted a few years back with about 50 dozen fake Oakley sunglasses for sale at an outside market.

First, two fellows came by and looked at the glasses and asked how much they were.

The vendor priced them and one fellow bought a pair.

About an hour later the buyer and the other guy came back along with a Sheriff's Deputy and a warrant. He identified himself as an 'authorized' inspector for Oakley.

(he was a private detective who drove around looking for fake Oakley sunglasses, the other guy was not identified)

Here is more or less how it went down...

Inspector "Do you want to do this the easy way or the hard way".

Vendor "What is the easy way?"

Inspector "Give us all the fake Oakley sunglasses you have here and we go see the Judge."

Vendor "What is the hard way?"

Inspector "We take everything you have here, go to your house and turn it upside down, then we go see the Judge."

He did it the 'easy' way.

note: The inspector's sidekick tried to take ALL the sunglasses...Oakley fakes and unbranded sunglasses. The vendor threatened to "Stomp his ass." and the guy walked away and stood at a distance.

The inspector gathered up all the fake Oakleys displayed for sale and all the vendor had in his car.

The inspector loaded the sunglasses in his car and the vendor was loaded in a police car, no search, no handcuffs, no nothing.

They all went straight to the Courthouse and met with a Judge.

Each one told their side of the story. The sidekick said nothing.

The Judge had a stenographer take notes, put the vendor under $3000 cash bond, and set a Court date.

The vendor and inspector showed up on the Court date.

The vendor and inspector did not have lawyers.

The Judge let them tell their stories, then asked the inspector what he thought an appropriate fine would be.

The inspector got loud and said he wanted "$100 restitution!" for each pair of fake sunglasses because that was the average retail price of them and that was how much Oakley stood to lose.

50 x 12 x $100 = $60,000.00...Sixty Thousand Dollars!!

The Judge would not go along with this at all.

The Judge asked the inspector "Is it not true that you now have the sunglasses?"

Inspector "Yes."

Judge" Well you get the sunglasses and I get the $3000...case dismissed!"

He put the vendor under two years probation.

The vendor told me he listened to the inspector bragging to a couple 'Courthouse Junkies' outside the Courthouse about how many pairs of fake Oakleys he had at home and it sounded to him like the inspector might be selling them.

The two years probation is past and I see the vendor now and then on street corners...selling fake Oakley sunglasses etc on a folding table.

I have seen NASCAR, Disney, LV, Coach, Rolex etc inspectors and they all have about the same routine. You have to offer the fake items for sale and state a price. The inspector purchases the item to prove the vendor really intends to sell the item. The inspector has to obtain a warrant to have a legal claim to confiscate the fake merchandise.

Some inspectors bluff vendors into giving up all the fake merchandise and go on their way.

Disney and Rolex inspectors want money, blood, prison time, and your first born son.

I have seen Rolex inspectors at big NAWCC shows and they are sometimes extremely aggressive...but I heard they take off when someone pulls a gun on them.

There are 'Fake' Fake Inspectors too! They are all over flea markets etc in the summertime.

Most dress like 'Country Club' types and ask if the vendor has any high end knockoffs etc. The vendor shows them something. Then the 'fake' fake inspector gets loud and aggressive and pulls out a fake ID of some sort and threatens to take the vendor to jail etc unless the vendor surrenders all the fake merchandise.

The vendor caves in and gives up the merchandise.

The 'fake' fake inspector takes off and sets up in another town selling the 'confiscated' merchandise.

[Pugwash]

The vendor told me he listened to the inspector bragging to a couple 'Courthouse Junkies' outside the Courthouse about how many pairs of fake Oakleys he had at home and it sounded to him like the inspector might be selling them.

He would say that though. It's in his interest to make his dodgy profession seem more acceptable.

You can bet a large amount of money the inspector doesn't sell them as Oakley will probably pay him a bounty. Selling them would get him humped by Oakley.

[freddy333]

If you live in the US, stop reading & watch this & then click the video link on this page

[Ev_]

Regarding UK law, the only thing I

[Pugwash]

Quote:

[stac]

How about a US "collector" that wears his MBW DRSD to Aruba?

Anything to worry about?

[sp12]

Sweden

Illegal to import counterfeits, but legal to bring a few t-shirts and watches when returning on holiday.

Illegal to sell counterfeits.

Note: It WAS legal to import a replica as long it wasn't meant for resale, but nomore.

Strange: I' saw this magazine article were they talked to a legal person and she said that it

Edited November 5, 2008 by sp12

[hogan1]

Sweden

Illegal to import counterfeits, but legal to bring a few t-shirts and watches when returning on holiday.

Illegal to sell counterfeits.

Note: It WAS legal to import a replica as long it wasn't meant for resale, but nomore.

I live in Sweden. Where can you read about this? (link/source)?

[hogan1]

I have now checked with Swedish Customs (web) and it works like this:

Buying over the Internet from outside the EU - or bringing it with you when you arrive from outside the EU

Customs have the right to seize counterfeit watches and other products. They will at their own discretion decide to contact the brand name owner - or they may let it pass. It is then up to the brand name owner to initiate legal proceedings or just have the goods destroyed. Once having crossed the Swedish border, I can't find anything that gives any authority or other party the right to confiscate, destroy or otherwise do anything to e.g. your replica watch.

Internet purchase within the EU - or bringing it with you from an EU country

Nothing will happen - customs will not touch your package. (This is what must be assumed since Customs don't mention anything regarding goods from the EU).

Footnote:

Quoting from Swedish Customs' web - rough translation:

Presently, Swedish Customs will not take any action, if you as a traveller bring with you a few (1-3 would be my translation) counterfeit products in your personal luggage under the condition the goods isn't for commercial use - and the value is below SEK 3-4300 depending on mode of transportation (approximately USD 375 to 540).

What under all circumstances is prohibited is the sale and trade of counterfeit products. You can therefore not legally put your replica watch up for sale on any Swedish (or other) Internet auction or commercial site.

http://www.tullverket.se

http://www.tullverket.se/download/18.4ab15...pa+tv101.92.pdf

A very good reason for me to stay with sellers who bring the watch in to the EU and ship it from there.

[Bossart]

Looks like it's a mess.....and different coutry to country.

As stated by other posters, here in the UK - most interpretations of the law are that owning rep anythings is not illegal, but trading "can" be viewed as such and prosecution may be "possibe".

One of the problems is enforcement. There are to Customs and Police, far more important priorities than rep watches or handbags or jeans or hats or all the many hundreds and hundreds of other items that young people wear openly on the streets - most of which are replicas. Look at the counterfeit CD market for goodness sake (virtually a no-win situation for the authorities for years).

Here in "credit crunch" UK, the only shops still in business in this declining UK ARE selling cheap imported goods - mostly fake and replica brands, that people can still manage to afford.

To go after these, by the authorities would be a huge and pointless waste of time, de-forestation and resources.

The other point is that one wonders why it is SO difficult to get a truly definitive statement regarding reps as a UK standard - instead we have many and various little clauses from Councils to Counties and from law enforcement to lawyers - all of which are open to so many different interpretations, it's laughable.

Maybe this is symptomatic of the fact that it is such an enormous "grey" area - like reps...LOL and the fact that nobody, here in the UK at least, if truth be known, actually gives a monkeys! :D

[hogan1]

Swedish Customs and thereby the authorities at the same time say that they are working within the EU for a uniform legislation - and also an increase of the maximum prison term from today 2 years - to 4 years.

It is my firm opinion that any prioson time or even a high fine, will not be the case for the odd watch brought home. The chance of getting caught is greater if it arrives via mail than on your person. A slap on the wrist (mind the watch though) and a token fine perhaps - but nothing more.

As long as the watches aren't brought in to be sold, the only real risk I see is the watch being confiscated.

[azt3c]

New Zealand's law:

See http://www.customs.govt.nz/NR/exeres/8C15D...RMODE=Published for information regarding copyrights and intellectual property rights.

The good part:

"Are any goods exempt?

The above provisions for infringing trademark and pirated copyright goods do not apply to goods being imported solely for a person