Pugwash Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I kinda don't have a problem with higher prices per se. It's the misrepresentations that are the most egregious. I don't have a problem with high prices, as long as they're not artificially high. The Steelfish, it has to be said, is a damned fine watch and is possibly not too overpriced as I bought one. That doesn't mean that it may not have been cheaper if the prices hadn't been artificially sustained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 BO10008 BR 01-92 Limited Ed PVD Black/Orange 46mm 1:1 Eta 2892-2[bO10008] $248.00 Model : PVD Black Case, Limited Edition, Black Dial with Orange Markers, Special Shape Leather Strap with Insignia Buckle ( Special Toolkit provided for removing Straps) Movement: Asian Eta 2892-2 Automatic 21J Movement 28800bph Functions: Hours, Minutes, Secs Dimensions : Width 46mm x Height 46mm x 10.8mm Thk... Exact 1 : 1 Dimension Material : 1 piece forged/Engraved case construction, solid 316 stainless steel, PVD Black Back : Solid Case back with Detail Engraving Crown : One-piece Screw Down crown with o ring Crystal: Sapphire Crystal Water-resistant This is what was inside this watch: This movement was DOA on arrival at the customers house. It was sent to me to see if I could install an ETA 2892 in place of the "Clone" 2892. This movement is as much of a "Clone" of a ETA 2892, as I am a clone of Brad Pitt...aside from the fact that we are both males and have dinks, there are no similarities. Calling this a "Clone" 2892 is simply not true. The movement pictured above is not a clone of anything, it's a $2 movement. The reason it was DOA, was due to the fact that the balance impulse jewel was out of the pallet fork. Of all the watches I have ever worked on, not one had this problem. Why? well in a well designed modern movement, there are two safety devices that prevent this from happening. In other words, any half decent movement made should never have it's impulse jewel come out sync with the pallet, this one did, do the math... The fact is that the movement is cheaply made, not compatible at all or even close to an ETA anything, and certainly not a clone 2892 as claimed here in the explination given earlier on this subject... Thus we decide to use the chinese clone of the 2892... Some members pointed out that the 2892 we used does not resemble the 2892 they know... The seagull 2892.... Now the seagull 2892 is thicker than the swiss 2892...... We disregard that cos we placed the thickness of the watch ahead of the movt looks.. Thus we went for this non seagull movt which the "experts" here are no familar with ... It is also a 2892 clone. 28800bph .... Though it looks different Well the last part of that statement is true, it DOES look different, I'll give them that much... This statement is not true: Now the seagull 2892 is thicker than the swiss 2892The Seagull 2892 is IDENTICAL to the ETA 2892. Thus we went for this non seagull movt which the "experts" here are no familar with Well actually, I am all too familiar with these movements, they are available for $2 a gross, and are unbranded cheap movements, there are good asian movements, and there are those like you see here, these ones are poor quality.. It was DOA, due to a defect in the design, that does not speak well of it's quality...of the fact it's being labled as a Clone of an ETA, when in fact it's not even close... You couldn't put a cheaper movement in the watch if you tried. RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_uk Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Sorry about being OT... Hi Bricky hows things? I miss our little battles from the good ol days eh Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 While Pugwash started the original 'white lies...' thread he is no way alone in his concerns. This is a major concern for all members within this community, where we have come to enjoy some friendship and comeradery. If we are being taken advantage of then this is simply wrong, no matter who is doing it. We would not tolerate this from a non dealer member and we would welcome an open discussion from the dealers. I think most of us want to continue doing business with those called into question but we just want it to be an honest relationship. If there are errors of judgement let's talk of them openly and set the record straight so we can all clear the air and get back to doing what we love to do. Usil I'll have to agree with Usil on this: We would welcome an open discussion from the dealers here - just as many of us would want to continue doing business with those called into question... depending on their responses: it all comes down to what Usil as termed 'an honest relationship', setting the record straight, clearing the air and getting back to doing what we love to do. Well said, Usil. I think the ball is in the aformentioned dealers' camp. I wonder if anyone's home this time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I'm still checking in from time to time... but I'm spending most of my time on TRC. Dunno, RWG is too fast for me somehow - times change Nah... You're just getting old... hehe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted March 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Seeing as Trusty is frequently posting on another thread right now you would have thought he might post here.........????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I'll have to side with Usil on this: We would welcome an open discussion from the dealers here - just as many of us would want to continue doing business with those called into question... depending on their responses: it all comes down to what Usil as termed 'an honest relationship', setting the record straight, clearing the air and getting back to doing what we love to do. Well said, Usil. Problem is, that "open-ness"... doesn't seem apparent and forthcoming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Seeing as Trusty is frequently posting on another thread right now you would have thought he might post here.........????? He's reading this thread right now, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Sorry about being OT... Hi Bricky hows things? I miss our little battles from the good ol days eh Susan Sorry also for the OT... I still remember how Bricky welcomed me in the old rwg... great fella! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbchubb Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 @The Zigmeister... thanks for posting this... this is the kind of stuff we need to put in front of "the cartel" and demand a change in business practice. This is hard evidence on the table.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Well said, Edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bricky Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 (edited) Sorry about being OT... Hi Bricky hows things? I miss our little battles from the good ol days eh Susan LOL! That was fun, wasn't it. Everything's fine, thanks. I hope you're OK too Mary..... Nah... You're just getting old... hehe... Shh... don't tell anybody! Edited March 27, 2007 by bricky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 @The Zigmeister... thanks for posting this... this is the kind of stuff we need to put in front of "the cartel" and demand a change in business practice. This is hard evidence on the table.... Hmm... Talk about being open, eh? Glad that The Zigmeister has come out with this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I for one miss the dealer's input and responses on this board. Once they had the ability to converse among themselves, they seemed to vanish all together. I've personally had no issues with the "cartel", but for the good of the hobby would like to see some change and a move back to honest representations of the watches. Honesty in an illegal business, the irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 The dealer response, or the lack there of, to the little white lies thread was telling. Yes, some came forward and discussed rectifying the B&R issue but a dialogue, above board, with those of us who know a little of how the business of all of this works, would have been refrsehing. It didn't happen. the dealers in question covered their heads, waited the storm out in a bunker and then continued business as usual once the worst had passed. It made me feel like they were treating the dedicated customers and members of this forum like dupes. I like Josh, Andrew and yes....even Paul. Most of, no let me rephrase that, all of my purchase transactions with them have been satisfactory yet they seem to have insulated themselves from feedback, discussion and criticisim in recent months. Going underground and nonresponsive is not the way to deal with this. It looks like Andrew has taken his public interactions with potential customers elsewhere, to another board, for whatever reason. I don't know what the atmosphere is there, I don't frequent it. This is the only replica board I monitor and post on. Perhaps he's a stand up guy there, perhaps he's insulated and protected by the powers that be. Don't know. I wish there could just be an honest discussion. I posted some pleas in the LWlies thread for some of my favorite dealers to just come forward and talk about the mistakes, pressures, bad choices etc.....we're such a forgiving, understanding community. Nothing short of child molestation couldn't have been worked out or understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Honesty in an illegal business, the irony. Being moral and being legal are not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 LOL! That was fun, wasn't it. Everything's fine, thanks. I hope you're OK too Shh... don't tell anybody! Oops! Sorry... Hehe... sidetrack again, I remember you were about 100 then... Now you're only 27... Hmm, you're just lazy, that's all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustywatchguy Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 HI ALL I will be the first dealer to reply. First of all, there is certainly no cartel group as what you guys mention. The watches are not only limited to us at all. Like I mentioned, it has been freely distributed. I just came back from Malaysia and was speaking to big wholesalers there who just got hold of the Hublots and Breitlings.. so no one is having a monopoly. Second, the cost price of the new watches are high. Why.. you may ask? Reason: Cost of ETA movements went up in the replica industry. They are very scarce now and with ETA moving their factories out soon from China, there will be even more worrying concerns on rising costs of movements. The Maker has also sold the watches at a high cost price because of the details of work done on it. It is the Forum guys that gave Angus input on the replica watches and in the end, Maker took pains to change this and that (e.g Hublot and Chronomat Evo and SteelFish), so all the costs of changes and special detailing brough up the cost. I can swear to you thats the truth. Lastly... go read what I posted in the Dealer Review (TrustyWatchguy)... raising concerns of IP authorities and also the customs problems surfacing real badly all over the world... I think I have said enough... Please appreciate what has been done Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted March 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 The legality is not really an issue. It is still a business and they have an obligation to us, if they choose not to uphold their end of the bargain we are quite within our right to get rid of them, and trust me they'd lose more out of that than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usil Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 'Openness' is what we need. If we are proceeding on false assumptions or incomplete information then now is the time for the dealers to set the record straight. If there is truth to these allegations then now is the opportunity to step up - apologise and work at re-establishing a good relationship within the group - WHICH IS WHAT ALL OF US WANT. Is it asking too much to buy accurately described reps at a reasonable price? Usil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted March 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 We appreciate the lengths that have been gone to but can you please address the fact that you state: ETA Movement When it is a $2 chines piece of [censored]. Where is your reasoning for inflated cost if the watch doesn't contain the expensive ETA movement. How can you justify charging huge prices for something containing a $2 Seagull movement????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 WOW..3 pages since Edge posted less than an hour ago. I think this tread has legs and obviously might just be what's needed to cut through some of the [censored] and pandering. Well done Edge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 HI ALL I will be the first dealer to reply. First of all, there is certainly no cartel group as what you guys mention. The watches are not only limited to us at all. Like I mentioned, it has been freely distributed. I just came back from Malaysia and was speaking to big wholesalers there who just got hold of the Hublots and Breitlings.. so no one is having a monopoly. Second, the cost price of the new watches are high. Why.. you may ask? Reason: Cost of ETA movements went up in the replica industry. They are very scarce now and with ETA moving their factories out soon from China, there will be even more worrying concerns on rising costs of movements. The Maker has also sold the watches at a high cost price because of the details of work done on it. It is the Forum guys that gave Angus input on the replica watches and in the end, Maker took pains to change this and that (e.g Hublot and Chronomat Evo and SteelFish), so all the costs of changes and special detailing brough up the cost. I can swear to you thats the truth. Lastly... go read what I posted in the Dealer Review (TrustyWatchguy)... raising concerns of IP authorities and also the customs problems surfacing real badly all over the world... I think I have said enough... Please appreciate what has been done Andrew Thanks for speaking up Andrew. I asked earlier in the thread if increasing pressures from IP infringement and shippers might be behind some of the price increases. Movement scarcity also makes sense as a reason. As I said, the price issue doesn't bother me much...but the exaggerations crossing lines into outright misrepresentations...that's another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted March 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Prices are prices and we can deal with price rises it's lying and cheating we can abide. You say that: Reason: Cost of ETA movements went up in the replica industry. They are very scarce now and with ETA moving their factories out soon from China, there will be even more worrying concerns on rising costs of movements. But the B&R has a $2 shitty movement, that's not inflated prices due to inflated cost. Marketing this watch as having an ETA IS LYING to the members plain and simple. And CANNOT AND WILL NOT be tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 The Seagull 2892 is IDENTICAL to the ETA 2892. The lie was exposed by myself and Marrickville Boy at the time Andrew came in and made the assertion. Either Trusty was exposing his total ignorance of the subject or was telling lies. The fact that he deigned to comment on our experts over the matter was clearly to mis-direct new buyers (after all, he's the Trusty Watch Guy). The problem we have here is that we have two dealers dangling carrots in front of our potential buyers, who will follow the carrot and ignore the warning signs all around them. The [censored] about the ETA2892 and questioning our experts was intended to make any newbie even spotting the warning signs prone to doubting them. That is one issue that we can feel miffed about, but ultimately we can't do much about except maintain our dignity and be there when the newbs get a [censored] watch and come crying back to us. The trouble though is that these newbs are being milked to raise capital to then close the availability of reps on the market, and that is the bit that is not acceptable. edit to add... First of all, there is certainly no cartel group as what you guys mention. The watches are not only limited to us at all. Like I mentioned, it has been freely distributed. I just came back from Malaysia and was speaking to big wholesalers there who just got hold of the Hublots and Breitlings.. so no one is having a monopoly. That reverse gear is getting used a lot today..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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