crystalcranium Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 As a mod here I prefer to maintain an impartial position however might I be so bold as to suggest that discussions and/or arguments remain civil in order that all parties feel free and unthreatened in order to present their points of view. On another point perhaps the initiator of the thread should script in simple and straightforward terms the questions that he feels require answering by the four dealers in question in order that the membership can assess for themselves, based on their responses, where the truth lies. A new thread might be the best approach here with a pm calling notice to those same dealers to visit and respond. JTB It certainly would be interesting to see who showed up and answered what. On the topic of "Off with their heads", I still think part of our responsibility is to keep the buying body informed as well as making sure we don't sponsor business for dealers we consider to be of questionable ethics by alllowing posts and dealer links. I just went to a dealer site, one being discussed here, and I can report there are still too many to count games being played with the truth. I know a year ago, I would be singing about the unbelieveable deal I got on a Swiss ETA 2892 Aqua-Tera from so and so. The potential for that kind of scam is blatently still real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Ask and you shall recieve...........the word is out at RWI! I bet I can guess the basic jist of the thread over there: "Screw that, it's communist! Let the market gouge us: it's the American way! Yeehaw!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Physher007 Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I bet I can guess the basic jist of the thread over there: "Screw that, it's communist! Let the market gouge us: it's the American way! Yeehaw!" Do you honestly find it necessary to bash Americans every chance you get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivia Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bricky Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Is the Won Ton Maru sinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Do you honestly find it necessary to bash Americans every chance you get? I was gently ribbing RWI, not Americans. Most Americans are not like that. I like lots of them, truly I do. Besides, is the thread over on RWI saying let the market sort itself out? It was the general tone over there when I was allowed to visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I bet I can guess the basic jist of the thread over there: "Screw that, it's communist! Let the market gouge us: it's the American way! Yeehaw!" Not at all, Pug.... There's a good discussion going on there....consensus is pretty much like here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
got-it Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I'll relate how I feel about all this. My 2 cents of you will. I am seriously disillusioned by all this. The lying, price fixing, conglomeration, and so on have seriously turned me off of reps. I am not saying I will never buy reps again, but I feel I will not be buying for now. Honestly, a steelfish which cost $308 + $30 shipping = $338usd is a high price in Canada. I'm spending almost $400cdn on a rep. For the same price, I manage to negotiate with an AD for a Tissot Le Loche automatic. Actually, it was $20 cheaper. Something is seriously wrong when I can buy a beautiful gen with a 2 year warranty for $20 less than a rep. The ETA 2824-2 does not give me issue, and best of all, I have the assurance it is warrantied. I understand that these 2 watches are not really comparable, as one is replicating the steelfish and the other isn't. but I can't honestly say the steelfish is better in quality than the Tissot I bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackrain Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I bet I can guess the basic jist of the thread over there: "Screw that, it's communist! Let the market gouge us: it's the American way! Yeehaw!" Pug, the thread seems to be a mix of views, much like here, with a higher percentage of members appearing a little more forgiving, citing good personal experiences with mentioned dealers. There are several dissenters, but they seem to be taking a more diplomatic, level headed tact. Currently a 3 page thread there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Pug, the thread seems to be a mix of views, much like here, with a higher percentage of members appearing a little more forgiving, citing good personal experiences with mentioned dealers. There are several dissenters, but they seem to be taking a more diplomatic, level headed tact. Currently a 4 page thread there. Cheers. Nice to know they're not going mental and putting it in the loony bin this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomama Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Ummmm......can't we talk about hot chicks wearing hot watches : ) Anyhow. I think we all need to step back and realize we want our cake and eat it too (which is possible) By that I mean we are dealing in an illegal trade which we want morality. Seems odd. Second Supply and demand dictate markets. if dealers are misrepresenting, out them in dealer review and readers will think twice before ordering. As far as prices, i am still shocked how good most of these watches are for the price we are paying. With mods (limited) and tinkering, they are nearly every bit as good as gens for THOUSANDS less. Third. I think we pay for convenience in dealing with big 2 dealers (Credit Card and easy to order and very responsive to questions) Some of the other dealers are a pain to order from Finally. dealers need to take head and publis exactly what is in the rep. We are big boys and can make decisions as such. If it costs more to put ETA, charge more.... I just got my Seamaster Aqua Terra from Josh this AM and it is BEAUTIFUL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
got-it Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Cheers. Nice to know they're not going mental and putting it in the loony bin this time. Well...they should really change their intro to their main page..."Please do not pay in the realm of $1000 dollars for a rep, you are being scammed." doesn't seem to apply anymore to their 5 star dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanerich Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I gotta admit, I'm not impressed by Andrew's response. Look, pimpin' aint easy. I get it. But that's why I don't pimp, because I can't deliver the ho's people want when they want it and eventually I'll be out of business with busted kneecaps. I don't know why because you've built up sales volume you're immune to the basic rules of business. If you can't deliver the goods you promise, I don't care if you sell ho's, reps, accounting services, gum . . . it doesn't matter, you're not "trusty." Let me get this straight, people are accusing you of selling shoddy merchandise for more than it's worth and your response is "hey, you wanted that watch, reppin' ain't easy." So if the market demanded a dual core notebook computer for $800, that would make it somehow not dishonest to pop a 486 in an old Thinkpad, call it a dual core and sell it for $800? Pretending to give the people what they want is the same as actually giving them what they want? While that's a nice bit of postmodern satirical reasoning it doesn't make a damn bit of sense business-wise, unless you've checked your ethics in at the door. You can cry a river (speaking of which, I miss River) about how it's not easy. But it's not easy to make the money to buy reps either, and yet we figure out ways to make it green, so dealers should figure out ways to make their watches what they say they are. Otherwise, there's no getting around the fact that they are not delivering what they say they will, and when a dealer intentionally doesn't deliver what he says he will so he can keep the money flowing in, I don't know why what the hell it means to tell the customers to "understand" that. Understand that they're being screwed so he can keep things going, how self-serving is that?? Yes, this is a illegal business, but you still have to deliver what you say you will to keep your customers. In any case, when the dealers start defending their actions by SAYING "hey, there's no honor among thieves," it might be time to find a new hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Ummmm......can't we talk about hot chicks wearing hot watches : ) Anyhow. I think we all need to step back and realize we want our cake and eat it too (which is possible) By that I mean we are dealing in an illegal trade which we want morality. Seems odd. Second Supply and demand dictate markets. if dealers are misrepresenting, out them in dealer review and readers will think twice before ordering. As far as prices, i am still shocked how good most of hese watches are for the price we are paying. With mods (limited) and tinkering, they are nearly every bit as good as gens for THOUSANDS less. Third. I think we pay for convenience in dealing with big 2 dealers (CC and eay to order and very responsive to questions) Some of the other dealers are a pain to order from Finally. dealers need to take head and publis exactly what is in the rep. We are big boys and can make decisions as such. If it costs more to put ETA, charge more.... I just got my Seamaster Aqua Terra from Josh this AM and it is BEAUTIFUL. And you realize the movement in it is not an ETA 2892 as was advertised correct??? This is the freekin crap were talking about here. Naieve, happy, serene ...and duped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Wow...Newbie balls. Thanks for sharing that with us. Sorry Josh, but that email is disgusting. ...so it is true ? Ridiculous. When a dealer loose customers he becomes a dealer...whithout customers. The question is: how does he make some money ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonz1000 Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I bought an ultimate PO 45mm from Andrew, and i will open it when it's getting here,i 'm even worried if he won't sent me the 115 dollar version, i will post pictures here on the board when it's in. for know he gets the benifit of the doubt. If the 'engine 'is not what they promised, it's the last time i bought from them, and will find me an other dealer, if i can't find one.....so be it. Here in Holland, the one who sell the rep. watches ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 And you realize the movement in it is not an ETA 2892 as was advertised correct??? Yeah I realise after PT told me... I was very exited about getting a 2892 watch (and so was Rob) but it didn't happen and I was told clearly. No [censored] about: it's a kind of 2892, blabla, only "it is not a 2892". Should always be like that guys. Imagine if AjoeSmith sold me a watch and described another one, or such thing about my latest aquisition from Pug would happen ? Come on, when you buy, sell or trade, you clearly know and hope it's for multiple shots, not for a one shot is it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_uk Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 And you realize the movement in it is not an ETA 2892 as was advertised correct??? This is the freekin crap were talking about here. Naieve, happy, serene ...and duped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakie360 Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 im a newbie..first and foremost.. and i read ALL 10 pages. it doesnt really take watch experience to figure out whats going on here from a business perspective but every single one of you can make your own decision. despite this being a black market, money is MONEY! the dealers NEED us, plain and simple. in my opinion, none of us should be making excuses for them. that being said, we still have this incredible appetite for our beloved rep watches. I dont think no one has mentioned this... BUT WHERE ARE THE OTHER DEALERS (non cartel) IN THIS. if everything is true, they are being cut of my the pie. PLEASE STEP UP..MAINTAIN YOUR CHEAPER PRICES AND INCREASE THE CUSTOMER SERVICE. this is your opportunity to fill in and shoak up demand. until those dealers start colluding. its an endless cycle of greed, people. sad but true. so as a community, constant house cleaning IS essential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Yeah I realise after PT told me... I was very exited about getting a 2892 watch (and so was Rob) but it didn't happen and I was told clearly. No [censored] about: it's a kind of 2892, blabla, only "it is not a 2892". Should always be like that guys. Imagine if AjoeSmith sold me a watch and described another one, or such thing about my latest aquisition from Pug would happen ? Come on, when you buy, sell or trade, you clearly know and hope it's for multiple shots, not for a one shot is it ? Actually, I was asking jomama who was calmly advising us all to take a chill pill, count our blessings, get some perspective for what we have to be thankful for....that he had been DUPED!!!!! This ETA 2892 bullbleep in the Aqua Tera is one of the most egregious scams out there right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_uk Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 "they are being cut of my the pie" huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 kanerich- Very well said... Deliver what you say... Say what you'll do. Charge appropriately. It's easy math... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 just one more thing: I have ordered like 9 subs so far (from wich some MBW, about to get a TW whatever best, an ultimate...). Put the money together and sum it. I would have a (or a couple) gen for that price. So, why the hell am I doing this if not only as a hobby of collecting bloody fakes. The least I can wait is good communication isn't it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Wow, impressive thread. Thanks edge. I can add that there is no real reason for the "Maker" (did someone watch the matrix one too many times?) to set the final price on a watch. I seriously doubt this is happening (there are a few minor reasons why but highly unlikely). If prices are being set, they would be set by the cartel. I have personally noticed prices going higher with a group of dealers and have taken my business elsewhere / buy fewer reps. I believe the solution here is simply to have more dealers (who are unaffiliated). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakie360 Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 i meant, the smaller non-cartel dealers are being cut out of the overall pie. why cant they increase thier market share by maintaining their prices BUT at the same time increase customer service. time for them to step up. fill the void that will surely be created. "they are being cut of my the pie" huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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