Victoria Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 I had ordered my very first PAM from Paul a fortnight ago, and it had come yesterday! I rushed to get it from the porters' station just now. http://www.pam111.com/product_info.php?cPa...roducts_id=1093 It's a fantasy mini-Fiddy, which you guys here told me was a good deal. I loved it, and it looks AWESOME on me. No wrist shots as yet, because I want the strap and everything to be just right. But there are two problems, and I ask your help, RWG'ers. I'm awaiting an email from Paul, as we speak. - The CROWN does not want to screw in tightly, and looks like it is out all the time. Photo: http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9863/minifiddypin1rf6.jpg - The crown GUARD is completely loose, and when I put the watch on, it immediately opens and stays in this position. Photo: http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4739/mi...ddyguardpr1.jpg ...with my 1.40mm Bergeon screwdriver, I was able to tighten the screw on the crown guard, and though it still flaps open, it's a WEENCY bit better. About the crown itself, maybe I'm such a newbie that I don't know it's supposed to jut out like that, but something tells me that's not right. I'm excited , and sad at the same time. HELP, please. (Happy Fourth, to all to whom it applies, by the way!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 I'm no expert but will give you my take on this. First, on some of these models there is a gap between the crown and case, you might be able to fix it by taking a little off the stem but my guess is that it is just the way the crown sits on the case tube. As far as the crown guard being loose, the only way I know to fix this is by taking off the guard and taking a bit off, via dremel, so that it sits closer to the case. I've done this a few times, it should be slow work so you don't go too far and must be even or you will see a gap between the guard and case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo1nah2a Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Panerai crowns that are protected by crown guards do not screw in. The loose crown guard lever being loose could be either of the following: 1) bad crown guard. you will have to replace it or file it down so that it will apply more pressure to the crown. 2) crown guard not screwed in tight. Check if something is preventing it from sitting flush to the case. Screw in whit the lever in the open position 3) no o-ring in the crown.if this is missing, then the crown gives-in to the crown lever and doesn't push it back to snap into place. You need to take out the crown and place a o-ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Panerai crowns that are protected by crown guards do not screw in. The loose crown guard lever being loose could be either of the following: 1) bad crown guard. you will have to replace it or file it down so that it will apply more pressure to the crown. 2) crown guard not screwed in tight. Check if something is preventing it from sitting flush to the case. Screw in whit the lever in the open position 3) no o-ring in the crown.if this is missing, then the crown gives-in to the crown lever and doesn't push it back to snap into place. You need to take out the crown and place a o-ring. Chris and Geo, thanks for the replies! I was telling my parents just now that having this forum makes a newbie feel a heck of a lot better. The moment I can get that $30 for the VIP upgrade (now that I read it's working again!), I'll do so. In the meantime, I'm reading both your replies with my jaw hanging on the floor. You know why? Yesterday, I decided that I would take my two little screwdrivers, and shorten a link on the rep Daytona myself. It costs about $5-10 at the watchmakers. I DID IT! Man, I felt so proud of myself. What a rush! Now I have some idea of what you guys feel, when you talk about Frankentonas. SOO good. But your suggestions above, whilst I can use them for future knowledge, are waaaaay beyond my capacities at the moment. I'm taking baby steps with links and straps. I couldn't imagine any dremel tool in my hands for a good year. Sigh. No reply from Paul yet, but it seems I may have to send this one back. $28 S/H for a $119 watch. Dunno if I want that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Repost (and a little editing) from an old post of mine on RWI: Lever loose in the open position, or in the locked position, those are two entirely different beasts that need entirely different fixes. For the loose lever in the closed position (this is your main problem, vb!): This is the worst flaw of the two as it may compromise waterproof. It is due to too much room between the crown and the lever, so that the lever is not pressed enough against the crown when closed. In its turn, this can be due to a lacking the gasket below the crown, or to a poorly manufactured CG. If the gasket is missing, naturally you have to add it. But even if the gasket is present, adding another gasket (so to increase the overall gasket thickness) may help. If this does not work, you have to file down the CG feet (where the CG touches the case) a little, so to make the CG shorter, so to reduce the room between the lever and the crown. This can be a tricky task as you need to preserve the CG shape and not to mess the CG screw threads. Added: I would not recommend adding a second gasket on your watch, vb: the crown already looks out enough. For the loose lever in the open position: This is an universal flaw of almost all PAM reps (I just saw a very recent 005 unaffected). It is not dangerous, but it makes for the easiest way to tell a rep from a gen. It is due to the fact that the rep lacks a rubber gasket around the lever's pin, while the gen have it. To fix it you have to remove the lever's pin and the lever, slightly enlarge the lever's hole where the pin goes into, put a small segment of a plastic tube (e.g. a piece of electrical wire insulant) into the lever's hole, and reassemble the whole thing. The insulant will replace the missing gasket. An easier but less durable fix is made by removing the lever's pin and lever, filling the lever's hole with silicon glue, reassembling the whole thing, and leaving all untouched 24 hours in order to leave silicon to harden. In this case the silicon will replace the missing gasket. I hope to have been clear enough, English is not my language so it is quite difficult to me to describe this sort of things. In case, feel free to ask again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Repost (and a little editing) from an old post of mine on RWI: Added: I would not recommend adding a second gasket on your watch, vb: the crown already looks out enough. Thanks, sssurfer! I think I am veering towards asking Paul for a replacement watch. (No reply as yet. No worries, he will) From the Silix thread, I remember that people told me it's the custom for the dealer to send you the new watch, and then you send the original back to him. I would like to do that as cheaply as possible, but fear it being lost without tracking, and insurance, which is $$$. It all depends on what he responds, but this crown guard/gasket business saddens me. They do quality control, no? That's what they all tell me, and yet, twice with two vendors now, items that EASILY could've been seen as faulty to the naked eye got away from them. Such is the rep business. I'm just one of thousands of customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 They do quality control, no? That's what they all tell me, and yet, twice with two vendors now, items that EASILY could've been seen as faulty to the naked eye got away from them. Sorry to say that, as far as I know, very few 'collectors' actually do quality control. And high volume ones, like Paul, Josh and Andrew are not among them. But with Josh and Andrew you may be sure that they won't leave you cold in case of troubles. With Paul, best wishes. Pls let us know how this comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavor flav Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 -please be sure to tighten the two crowngaurd screws before sending the watch back- if this is not the case send me a pm and i'll help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebakanezzar Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 -please be sure to tighten the two crowngaurd screws before sending the watch back- if this is not the case send me a pm and i'll help. yeah, what he said...i have received a couple PAMS's with loose CD lever, tightening the two screws on the CG fixed the problem both times. ...oh, and as has been said, the crown does not screw down, it is the job of the CG lever to keep it securly in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 yeah, what he said...i have received a couple PAMS's with loose CD lever, tightening the two screws on the CG fixed the problem both times. ...oh, and as has been said, the crown does not screw down, it is the job of the CG lever to keep it securly in place. Thanks guys! Here is a progress report. First, Paul wrote back asking me to push the crown down, wind the watch, and then wind it back. Also, to check his Q&A section for info. I had already done it, but fair play to him. Second, I had already taken my 1.40mm screwdriver to the two screws in the crown guard. The lower screw doesn't seem to screw down that much, but the upper one did rotate a few times. It doesn't flap open SO MUCH any more, but there is no tension whatsoever in the crown guard. It feels "loosey-goosey". Maybe this is because I've never felt a real PAM crown guard in my hands, but in my mind, I had a much stronger mechanism in mind. Something almost impregnable, that would have resistance when you pulled it back to release the crown. This one is like butter. The tiniest pull, and it flaps open. Of course, this is a rep, but other reps offer sturdier constructions I think. Two more shots. Crown out: http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/4264/cr...ailclosejv6.jpg Crown in: http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5808/crowninoo0.jpg In the same mini-Fiddy case which had been antiqued, in the other thread, I didn't see so much of the crown visible. Is mine normal? If it is, then I'll not ask for a replacement. Also, I am going to an AD and try to see how a real one feels, tomorrow. Obviously, not wearing my new PAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 In the same mini-Fiddy case which had been antiqued, in the other thread, I didn't see so much of the crown visible. Is mine normal? I wanted to buy the buckle that V used which he said Angus/Puretime had (didn't find it BTW), so I went to Puretime's Photobucket site. Here is the Mini-Fiddy: http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/pure...t=DSCN04311.jpg That crown sure looks like mine, doesn't it? Maybe it's just the way it is, jutting out like that. However, here is the vintaged mini-Fiddy V had aged: http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/wi...ge/IMG_3097.jpg http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/wi...ge/IMG_3102.jpg Crown just looks more flush to the watch itself. I've tried and tried, but it won't go 'in' and if I try any more, I'll break the stem... Meh, I'll deal with this in the morning. ;-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 HELP, please The best advice I can give you is to buy from a dealer that INSPECTS your item before handing the problem over to you......! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 The best advice I can give you is to buy from a dealer that INSPECTS your item before handing the problem over to you......! Joshua is considered one of the best, if not the best, and something went awry in QC with his order too... (It's minor, and it's being dealt with, but still). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 After looking at your new pics I feel that there is no fix for your watch, vb. You should definitely have it replaced. The crown should not touch the CG when pulled out. In your case, filing the CG down would result in unability to properly pull out the crown to set time. Most likely, only replacing the lever would fix it. It even looks as your crown was intentionally mounted the most off the watch as possible in an attempt to compensate for a defective CG (particularly, a defective lever). True, the crown in Angus' pic resembles yours, but even a fraction of a millimeter can make a difference on these occasions, and I am unsure on whether that lever is the same as yours. I also wonder if that watch has the same issue as yours. I would be curious to know what would be the result of removing your CG and putting it back upside down. Would you feel brave enough to try that? As I said, Josh does not make QC. He outstandingly stands behind his customers in case of troubles, but he does not make QC (or just on a minor fraction of his watches, at most). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazarini Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 vbarrett. the crown picture is same as i have on my 217 destro so i think this is oka in terms how it looks , as some mebers already replied the pam crown does not screw in as it has the cown quard and leaver that pushes down the crown when the leaver is in closed possition. When it comes to leaver beeing loose this is the case with lotsa pams some "collectors" make sure when they check the watch before sending that it closes firm some again dont thats why before sending the funds this is one of the first questions i ask about the piece they gonna send me to avoid cases like this, as its just annoying someone looking at ure wrist while the leaver flaps around freely ... dont look good at all ... hope u get a solution soon , i would not send the watch back to much of a husle ... if u cant manage the thing on ure own ... i saw a couple of posts back that FLAVOR FLAV throw his hat in the ring to assist u on that. He is a top notch guy when it comes to modding ... u just cant go wrong with him. regards laz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I can only suggest ONE thing.. DO NOT SEND THE WATCH BACK!!!!!! THose flaws (if they actually are) can easily be fixed by a more skilled member or a modder.. .The money for the postage to send it back you will pay much of their fees and you will not have any worries. No one guarantees you that the second watch from Paul will be perfect. Btw, swdivad has told me that his mini-fiddy was not made up to the standards we were used to couple of months ago, and he sold it immidiately. I don't know if they are batches but... DO NOT SEND THE WATCH BACK!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 True, the crown in Angus' pic resembles yours, but even a fraction of a millimeter can make a difference on these occasions, and I am unsure on whether that lever is the same as yours. I also wonder if that watch has the same issue as yours. I would be curious to know what would be the result of removing your CG and putting it back upside down. Would you feel brave enough to try that? You know by now I start with thanks to all, but really, thanks guys. Sssurfer, Lazarini, and V for the advice about not sending the timepiece back to Paul (I had decided not to, since I totally agree, it can be modded here by another member). I'm not going to make this more than what it is -- namely, a newbie mistake on her first cheapo fantasy PAM watch. Okay, lesson learnt. But in the spirit of trying to help other newbies, here are some rather detailed pics of my "Frankenrai": (I think you're right, SSsurfer. Look at Angus' crown guard and then mine below) http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/1795/crownangustv3.jpg http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/1231/closeupguard1ld7.jpg Totally the same, substandard mounting highlighted in red. (Then a freaky pic after removing the CG itself) http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/2079/holesguard1dt3.jpg Looks like something out of Star Wars. (Looking like a plain old Radiomir here, except for those ugly holes to the side) http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/6822/sansguard1oa1.jpg Eh. (I remounted it upside as suggested) http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/5757/up...wnguard1qc0.jpg FUGAZE! Awaiting a response from Paul, but I sent him an email asking him for at least another crown guard, and SCREWS as these are substandard too. They feel loose in the holes, no matter how tight you screw them. I'm SURE that Andrew's Pam111h will be much more authentic, less problematic, and that one I will send to one of you guys, to Ziggify the lume. This one barely shows lume, and overall, I counsel anyone thinking of buying the mini-Fiddy NOT to, given my experiences. I'm outties! Thanks for reading this sorry Pannie tale! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 (edited) Thanks guys! Here is a progress report. First, Paul wrote back asking me to push the crown down, wind the watch, and then wind it back. Also, to check his Q&A section for info. I had already done it, but fair play to him. Second, I had already taken my 1.40mm screwdriver to the two screws in the crown guard. The lower screw doesn't seem to screw down that much, but the upper one did rotate a few times. It doesn't flap open SO MUCH any more, but there is no tension whatsoever in the crown guard. It feels "loosey-goosey". Maybe this is because I've never felt a real PAM crown guard in my hands, but in my mind, I had a much stronger mechanism in mind. Something almost impregnable, that would have resistance when you pulled it back to release the crown. This one is like butter. The tiniest pull, and it flaps open. Of course, this is a rep, but other reps offer sturdier constructions I think. Two more shots. Crown out: http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/4264/cr...ailclosejv6.jpg Crown in: http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5808/crowninoo0.jpg In the same mini-Fiddy case which had been antiqued, in the other thread, I didn't see so much of the crown visible. Is mine normal? If it is, then I'll not ask for a replacement. Also, I am going to an AD and try to see how a real one feels, tomorrow. Obviously, not wearing my new PAM. VB ..... I have recieved numerous Reps. with the same problem as you have... the first time the dealer sent me new CG's twice,.. one was too tight and the other at least a quarter of a mm away from the crown (lever) ... this was from Eddie L. ... getting him to take responsibility for his watches was difficult... he is sort of retired ... (the euphamism i will use) ... i deal with Joshua and Andrew now and the law of averages for senior dealers will catch up... as sssufer noted ..."high voume dealers", but there never was an issue in sending it back for a fix, with either Josh or Andrew ... in fact i have the 196 to go back and i have 2 other watches in transit on the way back to me. They will stand by their products... it does take longer to china... about 3 to 4 weeks round trip Remember: 1. if you insure it and it is lost you have to show proof of purchase ... and Reps. are not exactly legal in all government views especially now with the trade talk about China and their conterfieting of various products. 2. If it is really defected and you have a registered number and the parcel is lost I know one instance where Andrew replaced the watch no questions. 3 All watches come from the same factory with these dealers but some Senior dealers add their own detailing to some of the watches ... ie. AR coating etc...(that is my understanding anyway).. Joshua has a little say in what the factory does and he will inspect his watches 4. Personally I would not order from European Dealers .. only because of customs.. I once was charged a full duty on a Rep that customs took as genuine ... the dealer in China overlooked paying "his" proper "taxes" to the powers that be. and European parcels being more scrutinized..... So if you are looking for good Quality in Reps I would inquire with Joshua or Andrew .. nothing against any other dealers but as far as not having to worry about the end result I personally feel safe with them and Joshua will tell you if the watch is a good buy or the movement is not worth it ...I like this because i don't have the expertise "yet" of the other members on the Board ... that is my long winded mail to you ... I thought I would pass on what I experienced so you don't have to go through the same things ... hopefully. LANIKAI Edited July 5, 2007 by lanikai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Wow, I can even see the light filtering between the CG and the case. Ok, it looks as the only fix may be a lever replacement (quite hard to source a spare lever for that model, though). Sorry for your trouble, better luck next time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Wow, I can even see the light filtering between the CG and the case. Ok, it looks as the only fix may be a lever replacement (quite hard to source a spare lever for that model, though). Sorry for your trouble, better luck next time! I have a couple of spare CG's with levers if anyone needs help with them ... EL's 127 cost me an additional 150 to fix and mod. VB let me know if these CG's and levers may he;p you? Lanikai Wow, I can even see the light filtering between the CG and the case. Ok, it looks as the only fix may be a lever replacement (quite hard to source a spare lever for that model, though). Sorry for your trouble, better luck next time! I have a couple of spare CG's with levers if anyone needs help with them ... EL's 127 cost me an additional 150 to fix and mod. VB let me know if these CG's and levers may he;p you? Lanikai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Remember: 1. if you insure it and it is lost you have to show proof of purchase ... and Reps. are not exactly legal in all government views especially now with the trade talk about China and their conterfieting of various products. Drat. I had no idea one had to show proof of purchase. I am so innocent sometimes...on the other hand, if it's lost, you can say it was a comparatively cheapish watch, maybe a Seiko, and have the dealer send you a bogus receipt. Heck, one could go to a stationer's and buy a receipt pad and do it onself. Wow, this place brings out my criminal instincts! ("naww, Vicky, in a rep forum, really???" Hehe). 2. If it is really defected and you have a registered number and the parcel is lost I know one instance where Andrew replaced the watch no questions.Ahh, Andrew is Andrew. Paul's savings swayed me, and my first purchase with him was brilliant. I may stick to him for pens and boxes, and reps like Cartiers, but not the really big stuff -- like the Ocean SP 007. 3 All watches come from the same factory with these dealers but some Senior dealers add their own detailing to some of the watches ... ie. AR coating etc...(that is my understanding anyway).. Joshua has a little say in what the factory does and he will inspect his watches It struck me that Paul did too, for whatever reason. Oh, Andrew does AR coating, and the like, but he said he won't mod watches when I asked about the cannon pin fix. Heh. 4. Personally I would not order from European Dealers .. only because of customs.. I once was charged a full duty on a Rep that customs took as genuine ... the dealer in China overlooked paying "his" proper "taxes" to the powers that be. and European parcels being more scrutinized.....Nah, forget it, you're right. Being from "Europe" (well, I'm British, we don't consider ourselves really European), I know how it is. I read that guy's woes in FRENCH GUYANA. Even there you can't escape their more scrutinising Customs. Later in the thread: I have a couple of spare CG's with levers if anyone needs help with them ... EL's 127 cost me an additional 150 to fix and mod. VB let me know if these CG's and levers may he;p you? Wow, an additional $150. Sucks...but I will certainly let you know, Lanikai! Just now, I want to save for the lume job, and cannon pin fix on my Andrew PAM 111h, on which I am now placing all my hopes. This mini-Fiddy will be a kind of beater, and perhaps it gives me a little motivation to buy another PAM. As if I needed it. I really want a choc dial, as I bought the GeF marrone strap already which I think will be gorgeous with it... I know you said "long-winded" about your reply, but that's not the word I would use. Everyone in this thread, from Flavor, to SSsurfer, to you, have offered time and knowledge which has made me feel 10x better about this. Thanks, Lanikai, guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Wow, I can even see the light filtering between the CG and the case. EEK! On the other side. And I thought the right-hand side of the CG was the only problem. What horrible workmanship all around... Ok, it looks as the only fix may be a lever replacement (quite hard to source a spare lever for that model, though). Sorry for your trouble, better luck next time! Thanks! I have already asked Paul for a complete crown guard replacement with screws, and though I hear in this thread that this might not be the wisest thing, because not all fit well, at least I'll have spare parts. Now, let's see what he says. I am curious to know how certain dealers react, individually, because it's easy to be nice and pleasant in the good times. So far, Joshua was impeccable in dealing with my small problem, and Jay too, though I think he minded that I posted my problems on the board. But he too is sending me a replacement part. The only one who hasn't had to rectify anything so far, for me, is Andrew... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Joshua has a little say in what the factory does and he will inspect his watches I was not in knowledge that Joshua makes QC. Good to know, thanks! I am curious to know how certain dealers react, individually, because it's easy to be nice and pleasant in the good times. So far, Joshua was impeccable in dealing with my small problem, and Jay too, though I think he minded that I posted my problems on the board. But he too is sending me a replacement part. The only one who hasn't had to rectify anything so far, for me, is Andrew... I have to say that, on my experiences, all the dealers on this board are awesome. So far I had transactons with Joshua, Narikaa, Andrew, Jay, TTK, King, and Paul (in order of decreasing number of transactions) and I can't say nothing but good about them all. Obviously, this small report is more reliable about the dealers from whom I got more pieces. Joshua helped even in cases where the problem was due to my fault, not his pieces. He even sent me a whole new (gold plated!) case for free. Andrew sent me a whole new watch when I just needed a new case. On four purchases from Narikaa I had no trouble, but a minor one on a lug screw. Fixed for free. Two purchases from Silix and TTK, one purchase from Paul: no problem. What can I say apart that I am glad that this forum let me get in touch with them all? Everyone in this thread, from Flavor, to SSsurfer, to you, have offered time and knowledge which has made me feel 10x better about this. V, you are simply too good to be true. Congrats to your Italian boyfriend from another Italian. Tell him to keep you close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 V, you are simply too good to be true. Congrats to your Italian boyfriend from another Italian. Calabrese-Canadian. "Non Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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