Read a true story about JOE and tell all your friends !

[rbj69]

Yes, what is the point of this post if your Mods have all been completed? If Palp fixed everything and did not charge you, you still only paid the agreed on amount of $640 to Joe.

remember the watch cost was 220 bucks so the 600 is not just for my work ok

thanks joe

[robertrinaustin]

I would also add that nothing goods seems to come of Rob posting in Joe's threads and vice versa. I suggested at the old RWG and TRC that they stay out of each other's threads. I'm not sure what is so difficult about this.

[rbj69]

I’ve been quite on here for a while because of travel for work and I’m not one to call out fellow members or flame anyone, but this thread is exactly what stinks about forums. I have one simple question; did Joe pay to have the watch fixed by Palp? This appears to be Joe's story. If so, the original poster is a moron and should be banned for stupidity alone.

Namor, you complained and refused to let the guy fix his work, so he pays for someone else to do it and you come on here and call him a "scammer", unbelievable. If this is indeed the case, your idiocy is beyond comprehension. Your "true story about Joe" seems to have conveniently omitted some very pertinant facts.

that is exactly correct robert, i paid palp immediately to fix this guys problem and keep in mind this was over or about 10 months or maybe longer ago , i also told him to send it back to me if he wanted and then he went another direction about pricing and then we went through that and showed him what the differences were ,so like i said i shouldnt have to defend myself cause i did everything correctly till the guy was happy and satisfied and this is what i get for my troubles!!

people that have dealt with me for over a year now and still do knows me and knows i would never get behind intentionally and i will do what ever it takes to fix problems for people , i want u happy simply put

regards joe

[Guest overboosted]

when the stem pulled out all the way. Pretty embarrasing, it happened on an airplane when I was subtly trying to show the watch off to people seated next to me. You know, pulling the shirt sleeve up kind of maneuver so people could see what I was wearing. (You guys probably never do this kind of childish showing off.)

Hilarious! I feel for ya dude. That sucks.

Back on topic, I hate to see this thread go down this dark path of a war between two of our most valued members. It's really not neccesarry. I have never had a chance to deal with The Zigmeister or Palp, YET. But have had two watches serviced by Joe with a third still in his hands. He has also helped me out on other matters with watches and dealers over the phone and feel that calling him a scammer was a low blow. Without RBJ, Zig and Palp, we would all be screwed. 99% of watchsmiths won't touch reps and these guys are doing us a favor, albeit making some decent money doing it.

$600 is a good bit for a freakin modern sub in my eyes. I dont see a problem paying this for a vintage sub,that would cost tens of thousands for a gen, but for christ's sake, if you can afford fork out $600 for a fake Rolex, why not save up and spend $3K for a used REAL one, with NO flaws.

[rbj69]

again, the truth always wins as we see again and again, thanks for your support it means alot and also thank u for your patience with me i know everyone wants there watches and i assure u , u will get them im sry but i got sick and that i could not help but i never intended to stay gone this long , beleive me im sick of it to but hopefully soon we will look back on this and i can give someone having my problems some good advice

i wonder why he had problems now while im sick but who cares it has been done i proved that i did more and beyond what many would do to make someone happy and that is the point , period!! i did not leave him hanging i never said i was perfect (pretty close , just kidding) lol but im human to , [censored] happens and then u fix it

[hk45ca]

I'm sorry to see things turn out like this. I was/am a forum friend of Joe's since we both joined (before he started doing watch repairs). He's done outstanding work for me

hk45ca... You must be IAM... based on the gun theme in your Avitar

uaw, i just like tony montana. lol. but i have a sl of fire arms.

[Guest HeWhoIsLikeGod]

Damn, 11 pages already, will this one ever end..................TBC

[fitch]

well... after following this closely i would like to comment. namor writes over and over that his issue is that he paid 640 usd for a watch which had numerous flaws. obviously he is not happy about that. he is not upset with the price he is upset that he paid such an amount for a watch which had flaws. joe's defense is that namor didn't pay for certain modds and it seems that this would implicate that joe will not notice any flaws.. now if this is true that would be completey unacceptable and unprofessional to me. it is like he would notice the crooked crystal but hey, the customer didn't pay me so i am not going to fix it... i also do think that joe's prices implicate that he will do more then a professional job so the expectations will be high, so again i can understand customers being upset.. i don't really get all other things that are making this thread (interesting to read) yet very confusing.. i think the main issue here is that a customer paid a price for modds and received a watch that had flaws and the defense of the person who did the modds was that the customer didn't pay for those modds so that means he is not going to "notice" the wrongs in the watch were imo he should not have accepted the watch to start with. one very easy way to avoid this in the future: check the watches befgore you begin and tell people what modds would be nessecary in your opinion! obviously be honoust about this, i know tommy does this on the watches he modds for me and i trust his judgement. if he says that the insert is fine the way it is i trust him and won't buy a new insert from him (and he is honoust enough to tell me).. this still is a hobby you know.. wouldn't that be a way of avoiding these problems in the future?

off to work and curious how peops will respond to this...

[namor]

well... after following this closely i would like to comment. namor writes over and over that his issue is that he paid 640 usd for a watch which had numerous flaws. obviously he is not happy about that. he is not upset with the price he is upset that he paid such an amount for a watch which had flaws. joe's defense is that namor didn't pay for certain modds and it seems that this would implicate that joe will not notice any flaws.. now if this is true that would be completey unacceptable and unprofessional to me. it is like he would notice the crooked crystal but hey, the customer didn't pay me so i am not going to fix it... i also do think that joe's prices implicate that he will do more then a professional job so the expectations will be high, so again i can understand customers being upset.. i don't really get all other things that are making this thread (interesting to read) yet very confusing.. i think the main issue here is that a customer paid a price for modds and received a watch that had flaws and the defense of the person who did the modds was that the customer didn't pay for those modds so that means he is not going to "notice" the wrongs in the watch were imo he should not have accepted the watch to start with. one very easy way to avoid this in the future: check the watches befgore you begin and tell people what modds would be nessecary in your opinion! obviously be honoust about this, i know tommy does this on the watches he modds for me and i trust his judgement. if he says that the insert is fine the way it is i trust him and won't buy a new insert from him (and he is honoust enough to tell me).. this still is a hobby you know.. wouldn't that be a way of avoiding these problems in the future?

off to work and curious how peops will respond to this...

Fitch you got the point EXACTLY.

First, how professional can you be NOT seeing all that flaws and sending such a watch to a customer who ordered the FULL package of mods to get a fine watch ?

Then again, how professional is this behaviour to say if I were so picky with genuines Rolex would stop making watches. Even the supporters of Joe commented this watch as poor.

First of all what should have made me suspicious is the fact that you told me that you have this watch waiting on your desk - from a customer who did not pay.

Second: you tell here that you offered me to send the watch back.

SO TELL THE FULL TRUTH:

I had to pay again for sending the watch back, I had to carry the customs risk.

And then you told me that you suppose I would have worn the watch and that you would repair it - but that it's possible that I would have to pay again for some work !!!

To say it again: I have all this correspondence - so please don't try to tell it otherwise !

So what did you expected me to do ?

Send the watch to you, let it -perhaps- be seized by customs and then have NOTHING ???

Or send the watch back to you -you receive it perfectly- and then pay again 100,- USD for cyclops realigning, watertesting, scratch buffing, bracelet replacement and again 20,- USD for shipment to you ?

To have a total sum of 760,- USD ??? THATS RIDICULOUS !

As for all the people who asked me what my problem is after the watch is fixed by palp:

I have no problem anymore. This whole Thread is just to show about business practices of Joe.

It's here to show you that there isn't everything superfine Joe does.

And if you see these reactions and all this flamings here you EXACTLY realize why there aren't more people reviewing about issues !!!

About the watch: it took many weeks and constantly emailing till all was sorted out. Finally it was sorted out because palp helped me with parts from his own watch - NOT because Joe made it ok. He was fed up begging Joe for parts.

Finally the watch is still has issues with waterresistance (I am talking about washing your hands without taking the watch off - NOT about deep sea diving !!!) and the CGs are far off being nice and well made.

I can use it as a donor for parts only...

[gran]

made this

[vmena]

This should be moved to humor section. At last, facts are:

1.- @Namor paid 600$ and was dissapointed with Joe's work

2.- Joe asked @namor to send back the watch to fix bugs

3.- @Namor didn't wanto to send the watch back

4.- Joe solved the problem by paying Palp to do the mods for @namor

5.- Finally, the watch was fixed

What's @namor doing:

1.- Placing a post accusing Joe of being a SCAMMER

2.- Posting pictures of the watch as received and never STATING CLEARLY that finally Joe took care of fixing the problem

3.- Traying to mix concepts putting in the same basket people with delaying issues and his personal problem with Joe.

You are dissapointed with Joe's work and that's understandable. But you have made the issue grown in an unaceptable direction.

And now, just find your own conclusions.

Edited May 16, 2006 by vmena

[V]

I think there are no other issues to discuss. People who can read behind the words can CLEARELY understand what happened and if namor is right or wrong.

So let every individual think a bit, read 12 pages and end up in his own conclusion.

From this point forward nothing new will rise.. just bad-mouthing.

[namor]

I think there are no other issues to discuss. People who can read behind the words can CLEARELY understand what happened and if namor is right or wrong.

So let every individual think a bit, read 12 pages and end up in his own conclusion.

From this point forward nothing new will rise.. just bad-mouthing.

Absolutely agree, everything said here about my own experience. Everyone should read through and end up in his own conclusion.

About the undelivered watches: this is something the owners should sort out with Joe.

MY watch was delivered by Joe in an absolutely satisfying manner of time - so I have nothing to say to this delay-thing.

[slay]

This whole thread is [censored]! Namor, if you had a problem you should have sent the watch back or kept it and bit the bullet. You wanted palp to fix it? At RBJ's cost? Your unbelievable. YOU BOUGHT A REPLICA! Your damn replica doesn't come with a warranty and may not be the best quality, oh well, what do you expect for a replica. RBJ operates in the amazing country called the United States of America, we are a capitalist society, he can charge whatever prices he chooses and you can choose whether or not you are willing to pay that much. I don't have my watches modded because it is overpriced, that is just how I feel. I CHOOSE not to have them modded. You thought if you spent $600 dollars on a replica it would be perfect, not the case dude. If you wanted guranteed waterproof, warranty, no customs worries, 100% accuracy buy the genuine you retard! You are pathetic and have no right posting this thread. I aggree your watch is shitty, but you took a gamble and lost MOVE ON, GET OVER IT! Take your shitty watch and shove it, next time don't be so stupid!

"I AM [censored] STUPID AND I CANNOT READ AT ALL!"

[Pugwash]

remember the watch cost was 220 bucks so the 600 is not just for my work ok

I'm glad to see you're well enough to post, Joe. Welcome back.

The one outstanding thing that niggles me, and it appears to heve not yet been discussed, is the work waterproofing the watch. Did you test the watch after performing and charging someone for the work?

If the crystal came loose in transit from US to EU, it's quite unfortunate, but I suppose it is possible.

[warburg]

As stated before... everyone should be free to express his opinion about another member if it's not offending... sometimes this isn't very easy for some of us... we have to keep in mind that a lot of us aren't native english speakers and have some language problems...

If all of you have to post in your second or third language you learned for some years in school, i'm sure some troubles are only based on the language problem... same could be by using the word "scam" it could have different meanings to the ones using it.

This is a good point. It would be helpful if members had the opportunity to identify their nationality (If they chose to do so) with their screen name, as in the old RWG. This could be in the form of a word or flag symbol.

[slay]

wow... after all the reading... the modding business sounds like a big money-making business. i now dont feel good anymore about sending my watches in (for what-so-ever). (this is just a personal feeling)

you guys talking about those high prices sounds like after full modding a sub you have to spend about half the amount a genuine would cost you.

[Pugwash]

It would be helpful if members had the opportunity to identify their nationality (If they chose to do so) with their screen name, as in the old RWG. This could be in the form of a word or flag symbol.

You mean like the "From" field in their profile?

It's there, you just need to set it. However, you really want nationality and location, as the two can be different, like TTK being a Weegie in Thailand or me being a Brit in Paris ...

[namor]

wow... after all the reading... the modding business sounds like a big money-making business. i now dont feel good anymore about sending my watches in (for what-so-ever). (this is just a personal feeling)

you guys talking about those high prices sounds like after full modding a sub you have to spend about half the amount a genuine would cost you.

IT IS big business. No offense to any modder, just a little math:

Work on 100 watches, earn about 100,- USD each and you have 10.000,- Bucks in your wallet - no taxes and free planning of your work-time.

Some of the prices are OK, some others not.

Always have in mind that our modders/watchsmiths do this in their free time. Which is especially worth a lot if you have family...

[hk45ca]

wow... after all the reading... the modding business sounds like a big money-making business. i now dont feel good anymore about sending my watches in (for what-so-ever). (this is just a personal feeling)

you guys talking about those high prices sounds like after full modding a sub you have to spend about half the amount a genuine would cost you.

about $400.00 for a tw best tt blue sub, about $600.00 in mods, include changing dial. $!000.00 for about a 97% accurate rep. gen $7100.00 plus tax about $5600.00 for a nice used one. it's just a matter of what you want. i wouldn't do it for a watch you can buy for $2000.00 used but some people might. it's all up to the person.

[slay]

about $400.00 for a tw best tt blue sub, about $600.00 in mods, include changing dial. $!000.00 for about a 97% accurate rep. gen $7100.00 plus tax about $5600.00 for a nice used one. it's just a matter of what you want. i wouldn't do it for a watch you can buy for $2000.00 used but some people might. it's all up to the person.

i'm not really into tutones anyways (and i think the majority here isnt either)... i was more thinking about a regular lv or black sub which is can be bought for no more than 2k!

Edited May 16, 2006 by slay

[slay]

IT IS big business. No offense to any modder, just a little math:

Work on 100 watches, earn about 100,- USD each and you have 10.000,- Bucks in your wallet - no taxes and free planning of your work-time.

Some of the prices are OK, some others not.

Always have in mind that our modders/watchsmiths do this in their free time. Which is especially worth a lot if you have family...

yes... that would be a nice 2nd income! but hey, i charge 3$ for a beer which costs me 50cents max

on the other hand, i have to pay rent, insuarnce, taxes, waitresses etc. etc. etc.

Edited May 16, 2006 by slay

[namor]

about $400.00 for a tw best tt blue sub, about $600.00 in mods, include changing dial. $!000.00 for about a 97% accurate rep. gen $7100.00 plus tax about $5600.00 for a nice used one. it's just a matter of what you want. i wouldn't do it for a watch you can buy for $2000.00 used but some people might. it's all up to the person.

A little more math:

250,- USD for a TW-Best Sub S/S

25,- USD for a new insert

2,- USD for better Springbars

5,- USD for good o-rings and a little grease

5,- USD for some cape-cod

------------

287,- USD

And you have a damn nice watch.

Add about 40,- USD for a very qualitative Crown and Tube from cousins.

327,- USD

If you have a Dremel and some fine files just add about 10,- USD for a cotton-wheel and polishing compound for reshaping the CGs.

337,- USD

If you don't own the Dremel - add an additional 80,- USD for a new one.

You're at 417,- USD - AND YOU OWN A DREMEL !

So you can reach a very very nice and accurate Sub for around 350,- USD...

[manuel]

Hi everybody!

being out of the forums for a weekend and voilaa!

The JOE Thread.

The same happened when RWG.CC was born. I didn´t know that until 2 days after.

BOYS, I Cant Let You alone ! Look at this mess....

I´ve been in the forums a year or so. I think we have always admired Joe´s work.

Thats why i decided to send a datejust kit (had the parts but need to be mounted) to him because I lack the tools and the "know how"

He clearly stated that:

-he doesn´t like to pad prices because he likes to make a decent wage.

-he is not responsible for any loss and that he likes to say that to people.

I agreed with that and i wont discuss about prices here because thats not from a gentleman...

what i find sad, (but now i find a bit more obvious due to his job volume), is that he didn´t remember me and I had to remind him who i was and what was the project about....

The watch left Spain on 7 March...after some inquiries from me i realised that the "green box" had arrived...

Since he said he was ill i only wrote 2 emails because i didn´t want to bother him (others may do that i supossed)....and i had no reply at all.

This last weeks I had time to imagine a lot of things:

-joe´s home was randomly assaulted by a western rap gang and as a result all the watches were seized.

Now they are wearing our watches at the MTV!

-he embraced nanuq´s practices and ended up burning all the watches.

Well...Joe get well soon!

Regards,

Manuel

PS: I agree about alerting members about members, but Joe will deliver to all.

I ended up buying a mbw 1680 whiteletter, hope it will arrive and will post pics.

[vmena]

wow... after all the reading... the modding business sounds like a big money-making business. i now dont feel good anymore about sending my watches in (for what-so-ever). (this is just a personal feeling)

you guys talking about those high prices sounds like after full modding a sub you have to spend about half the amount a genuine would cost you.

No way to compare hand work price in China to any western country. So yes, it's easy that upgrading a rep cost similar or even more than a rep. Not difficult to understand IMHO.