namor Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 (edited) Hmm, so what is more unethic - criticize someone who is absent, or let more people get into trouble and being scammed ? I've had nearly a year to think over and made my decision now. Last year in summer I found RWG/TRC. I did my homework, even dug into the first postings reaching back years ago. I've never been a great poster - but I'm nearly everyday on the fora and reading reading reading... Learned many friends here and having a great time - NOW. Last summer I was "only" a poor newbie - who would believe my story if I told it then ? I was in "who has the best Sub"-Hype, loving Submariners since I know watches. So I decided to get one from Joe. The myth, the legend. I read a lot about the reviews - and decided to order one from him, with FULL FULL modifications. This is what I got: I was shocked - I even thought he accidentally sent me the unrepaired watch of another customer !!! But - no Problem ! Hey ! Calm down ! It's Joe ! THE Joe ! He will sort it out - he would never send you a watch like this FOR OVER 600 BUCKS !!! Indeed - after paying he is no more interested in you. I NEVER SAW A CENT BACK ! No refund, no help. He just said "send it back, I'll see". Knowing well that I'm extremely aware about customs (I paid him extra money for secure shipping firstly to someone else in EU - than to me). Do you see the scratch at the Crown ? He commented like this: "sometimes it's extremely hard to pop these bezels off..." Oh, come on ! Included in the whole package was a water test. He clearly stated it's no guarantee for real water-resistance but good for simple things like having a shower or things like that. Now read this: I washed my hands with the watch on - and it immediately sucked the waterdrops into the watch ! I opened it and dried the watch to avoid damage - then showed it to my watchsmith, he measured and told me that the crystal is too small in diameter. So combine this please - the watch having this fundamental problem, will never get waterresistant until you change the crystal or fix it with glue. So it's impossible that he did a watertest with my watch - cause it would have been flooded immediately ! By the way - do you see the crystal of this Sub ? This is how a realigned crystal should look like !!! Another point: The famous CGs. Please do your Homework and search 1) for a reference pic of a gen and 2) for posted watches modified by Joe. They are not even close to a gen. I gave it a try and modded one for myself - it's possible to get them nearly exact like genuine. (This is no advertisement - I do NOT offer mods.) But I saw also the Sub-LV from repaustria (cerberus2002) for example - great results !!! This is clearly showing that these mods ARE possible to do - and that the ones from RBJ aren't that good. Also many other members do their stuff on their own - and getting comments from Joe: "oh my friend lol i love you all lol very good work lol but i had 1532 gen ones through my hands lol and modded 127399 watches lol your cgs are a little off lol dont get offended please lol i just want to help you all my friends lol cause i love watches and all of you and the board lol i just want to help lol" Really interesting friends - this words from someone you have to pay replicacenter-prices for work that is 1) don't even done (in my case watertesting for example) or 2) could have been done much better. Result of all this: - I am scammed for more than 600 bucks. (And YES friends ! SCAMMED definetely IS the right expression for this !!!) - I have learned important lessons ( I was clever enough to not get scammed from replicacenter - and got into the same kind of trouble with Joe) - I have an Sub sitting here which is slightly more worth than an asian version from silix. - I learned to do all the mods for myself. Why I waited so long ? I thought nobody would believe me. Perhaps you still not do not after reading all this - but this is the truth. You know what ? I have ALL the original emails with Joe. Emails in which he is stating that the watch was perfect when he sent it and I messed it (Yeah ! I turned the aligned crystal back...) ! I don't want to copy and paste here (but I can if you all are interested) - cause Joe would just say that it's not true. I TELL YOU SOMETHING: There are some members I built friendships with that you ALL know. Reputable, and been in rwg since the early beginnings - I invite them to see this emails unedited in their original order in my postbox. What more you need to believe ? I shut my mouth too long - this is my biggest fault here - perhaps I could have get some money back if I made some trouble right after receiving this POS-watch. But as I stated before: I just was afraid nobody would believe my story. All of you ! Get your watches back you are waiting for - some of you for many months and don't get into the same trouble ! THIS SCAM HAS TO END ! This is the most important idea why we all are here. -edited to correct some spelling- Edited May 14, 2006 by namor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 (edited) Well unfortuantly, I have been in the same position as you have been. Namely not willing to speak up, simply because when I did, I was flamed all over the board, people told me I was jealous of Joe and his skills (but people forget that many of his mods came from my my idea's, I invented or thought up, or from Bryan and his work on CG's etc...I taught Joe how to do many things, and spent hours on the phone helping him fix watches, because he did not know what he was doing...but some people have short memories when money is at hand...). When I asked questions about "Crystal repressing" and "Datewheel alignments" and $40 dust [censored]s on dials, I was [censored] on...so I said "It's not my money, if people think it's reasonable to spend $700 on a $159 watch, let them do it...it's not my problem trying to inform them..." I tried to shine light on this, but was shot down repeatly by many members on the old RWG, that is one of the biggest reasons I had enough of the old RWG and left. I have seen the same items your pointing out here on other people's watches, at the time I repeatly stated to the owners "PLSE post your experiences so that others will know..." but everyone is afraid to say anything...for fear of being flamed...so on and on it goes... I have been hearing for weeks now about members who have watches with Joe, and they can't get them back, I said to these people "Plse post your experiences on RWG so that everyone will be informed of what is going on..." finally some of it is being brought to light. Unfortunatly many won't believe you or I, and state that this is a anomaly and a one-off experience, but that doesnt' change the facts and problems you have experienced, or the experience of others who have been in the same situation. Getting that info posted in the open is very hard to do, no one wants to step forward. I could go on for days, as there is so much more that people dont' know or are willing to believe, I have washed my hands of the whole issue... The truth will come out, and when it does, many will stand up and take notice of what has been going on... RG Edited May 15, 2006 by ziggyzumba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jraines87 Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Zig.... No flame from me... very interesting read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Zig.... No flame from me... very interesting read... Much appreciated, when I get worked up my english suffers, hence the broken thoughts... I am sure many others will have stuff to say - so be it - I can't change the truth of what I have seen or heard from others. It's unfortunate, but reality. Just 'cause you don't like the truth, doesn't change the facts. There is much more to the story, but that's for a beer, not the forum...I have said all that needs to be said. Everyone is capable of drawing their own conclusions and make informed decisions... @ namor, your a brave man... RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 I have not dealt with Joe as of yet, but was actually thinking about possibly doing so. But I do hope that Joe will come out and clear any of this up. Just even one sentence being said here to let all the other members know that their watches are still all intact would be good. let's all hope this will have a good ending. sorry to hear about your experience namor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jraines87 Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Much appreciated, when I get worked up my english suffers, hence the broken thoughts... No problem... When I'm all laid back my english suffers and that's my native language.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
700club Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 I have dealt with Joe with nothing but fantastic results. Joe is a man of his word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 I have never been tempted to deal with Joe, though he seemed to be such a great guy,.. it's just from research that clearly shows The Zigmeister to be the man for repairs, servicing, lume ect. ect.... Joe seemed to be the guy for mods.. but now I will have to wait for this issue to clear up before that assumption can be made again. I did notice him posting in The Zigmeister's forum, which I thought was not cool.... I do know that The Zigmeister will not post negative unless there are sound reasonings to do so,.. which takes it out of the realm of negativity and into area of revelation.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmena Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Next time post when things happens. Better than waiting until you don't know if the other part is able to aswer. I will post what I did in the other post. "If Joe has any reputation is beacuse of all you guys. Fore those that posted about the excellence of his job (and I'm talking about old and trusted board members, specially in the old RWG), and specially for all of you that never posted experiences like the one @namor is posting today. My personal experience with Joe has been sucessfull in the past, except now that Im waiting for a watch for near 6 moths. But when Joe posted he was sic, nobody (none of you boys), replaid any other thing than "get well soon, so sorry to hear..., etc., etc.,). And suddenly, one post (of some one with clear ideas and own personality, thanks @jdmdohcpower ) and everybody express what's seems to be heving kept inside for a long time. I'm not justifying Joe for this lack of communication, delay and job not well done. But IMHO, this is not the way to proceed to someone that maybe in one week you may realize was really sic at the hospital (I hope not). Slow down. Post your feelings, but leave the door open. You have the right to complain, but if later you realize you were wrong... would you post a public apology as well? Personally, I'm going to wait until he explains to us what's goig on. And in the future, if any of you have any complain, let us know, so we can protect our selves. That's one of the forum reasons to be." Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 I guess we will have to wait for Joe to give his version of all of this and how he will repair the damage g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 I remember The Zigmeister's posts on the old RWG and understand his misgivings. I remember what others said to him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkerouac Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 I never did business with Joe, although I was tempted to have him fix the crown guards on my YM -- one of the few things that irritate on an otherwise fine rep. My impression was that he started by doing a few mods on his own watches, then offered to do similar mods for a few other people on the board -- and his volume grew from there. My sense was that he was learning on the job and not the true equal of someone like The Zigmeister who in my perspective is the unequaled master of movements, at least in these parts. Could he live up to his growing reputation? Could what started as a hobby turn into a full or significant part of his income? Could he offer professional quality on every job? Perhaps people haven't examined these questions carefully enough, due to his unique, ebullient personality. I don't know. I hope this works out well for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faber Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 hope Joe can turn it all right for you friend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indyclmbr Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 No flame here either. I'll be curious to see how this plays out, but I've gotta say two members that I have looked up to here as well as the old RWG get my vote of confidence. DT and The Zigmeister. Hope Joe can return and clear up any issues. Climb on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallguy83 Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 @namor Thanks for shedding some light on this topic. It is important that if we have issues with members of this community they are brought to light. Best of luck getting this resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Very interesting read indeed... I don't have any experience with Joe but personally if I had to choose to send my watches to somewhere else except Finepics it would be The Zigmeister... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drizznay Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Very interesting developments indeed. I highly commend both Rob and Namor for being willing to speak their minds about this issue. I have not done any business with joe but had not ruled it out of the realm of possibility due to his stellar rep. I personally won't be dealing with him in the future. Info like this does make one wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Also I believe that this is not the right time you stepped forward namor... If you have waited so long you could have waited a bit longer for Joe to be here, or express your experiences earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallguy83 Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 @veni With all due respect to a senior member, but when is a good time to bring this up? RBJ has been absent for some time and when I went to e-mail him about a watch of mine he has had for awhile (along with the money to mod it) and got my e-mail bounced back. Curious? Maybe. Truth is, there is never a "good time" to do this. Better later than never is the only key to it. My .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 @veni With all due respect to a senior member, but when is a good time to bring this up? RBJ has been absent for some time and when I went to e-mail him about a watch of mine he has had for awhile (along with the money to mod it) and got my e-mail bounced back. Curious? Maybe. Truth is, there is never a "good time" to do this. Better later than never is the only key to it. My .02 Sorry I don't have any buisness with Joe and I don't know for how many weeks is absent and will be absent. If this is the case than you are right.. But if he is away and people start being suspicious for their money and watches I don't know where this will end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namor Posted May 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 @veni12 The reason I did not post this earlier is clearly stated in my post. All this happened last summer - I don't expect to get a refund or anything similar. Only Intention is to show this scam to all our members. As you see - there are others as well who has issues with joe. Why should I wait any longer ? You can believe me, there is nothing to clear up here. Nothing to make good anymore (I really don't believe that Joe would even think about giving a refund - but hey ! Surprise me !). He can write what he wants to - this watch and his mails are both here in front of me, I say it again: there is absolutely no excuse and/or explanations for all this. But in one point I'm 100% with you: I should have wrote all that earlier, immediately after receiving this joke of a Submariner ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallguy83 Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 @ Veni That is a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namor Posted May 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 @veni @tallguy83 Yes you both are right - but that would really be more than stupid. Almost everybody who has dealt with him also talked to him on the phone. Phone-Number, Mails, Real Name and Address. Impossible for him to get out of this trouble without getting some serious trouble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 When you have to deal with 'reputable members' stepping out is more difficult especially if you are a new member. Same thing happened with 'base' at the old RWG... People were telling they were scammed and the reactions were hostile at least... But at the end better late than never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namor Posted May 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 You're absolutely right - but when other reputable, longtime members are talking about issues too - it's not important anymore whether the poster is a newbie or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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