WM9 Two Tone review - The future is here!

[rosnik]

I'm hopening now the just arrived box of mine.... ;-)

[ironmarshal]

Hello everybody.

This is my first topic and i would like to say that i also purchased DUAL TONE from Watchmaker9.

Very impressive and very nice till last Saturday 1 December (Watch received beginning of November 2007).

The pin that fix the bracelet to the case of the watch went off .

I tried to put it back without success (it should be easy !).

I went to a professional watchmaker and he also could not fix it.

Looking at the other pin still fixed to the case of the watch, i can noticed that there is also something wrong.

Personally speaking (i am not an expert but i own a real GMT and a real Aquaracer) i have the impression that the last part of the bracelet has been 'pushed' hardly to the case in order to be blocked (normally it should be fixed with the pin !)

I sent 2 different mail to this person named 'George' asking an address where to ship my watch for repair or substitution and i am still waiting for an answer with the result that i have a over 500 dollar watch stored in my draw.

Reading review and comment at www.watchmaker9.tv/forum, i should not be to much concerned (an answer from this 'George' should arrive any minutes) but i start to ask me about the quality of the product (i hope to be wrong and come back to this forum and inform that my watch has been repaired perfectly).

Ciao,

Roberto

Please post a follow up on your repair experience. I'm thinking of picking one up in the future and would like to hear about your experience. Thanks.

[bobo57]

Please post a follow up on your repair experience. I'm thinking of picking one up in the future and would like to hear about your experience. Thanks.

Hi ironmarshal

Received yesterday address where to ship for repair.

Probably i will received back my watch after New Year.

keep you posted

[dax]

Thanks Pug - I wish I could take better photos though. I used my photo shop tools like you showed me to make them a little better, but I couldn't use a lot of the pictures because of the glare coming off of the crystal.

Another quest this Rep thing has got me into - photography!

Great review, I'm now looking myself...

Jake, if you're using a DSLR get a circular polarising filter. You can use it to remove (filter out) the reflections when phographing anything shiny, due to the way it filters light.

Very good on glass reflections, allows one to see through the reflection.

If you need any clarification on using polarisers, just ask.

[hiker01]

Hi Jake!

What's the movement???? Swiss I hope!

[trektagger]

I checked out the site and I cant see how to purchase the 2007 model. It seems only the 2005 is available. Am i missing something? Is it sold out?

By the way did anyone buy one in 2005? Im curious to see how the gold has held up.

Thanks, sorry for so many questions.

[jake48]

Hi Jake!

What's the movement???? Swiss I hope!

Yes - Standard 2836-2 ETA

[involt]

First of all, I'm not a native English speaker; I hope you'll forgive my incorrect syntax as well my improper colloquialism.

I'm a big fan of the two tone watches; I think they are more elegant than the steel watches, but less loud than solid 18K ones (obviously, it's only a personal opinion).

I own a genuine Breitling Chronomat, purchased twenty years ago, a stainless steel watch with golden inserts, crown and buttons. Some like it, some don't; anyway, it looks more elegant than an ordinary steel watch.

I've always liked the TT Submariner, in particular the blue dial one; I could afford (however not without effort) a gen TT Submariner, but I think that Rolexes are generally ovepriced. Beside, I can think a thousand of better use regarding 6700 Euros; so buying a good rep was the obvious choice.

In my experience, reps are not so bad in terms of reliability and wear. A friend of mine gave me a Submariner rep as a present in August 2001; compared to today's replica, it's a ridiculously inaccurate reproduction. But it's still in excellent condition, the rough usage notwithstanding; wearing it, I swimmed, dived, jogged, even performed karate katas. Because of punching during a kata (not executed in a dojo of course), a spring bar actually bended; but the watch never stopped working.

On these basis, buying a quality rep, that could last several years, was my intention. An essential requirement concerned the golden parts, that would have been in solid gold: purchasing a beautiful and reliable watch and putting it away because of the tarnished or faded parts makes little sense.

I read several posts about WM9; most of them included many criticisms, but none of them seemed to be substantial; besides, some people (like jake48) had espressed their appreciation.

So I directly asked George "are the golden parts plated or wrapped?". He replied, verbatim "The gold part on the 2 tone Submariner 16613 is made of real 18k yellow gold, not wrapped or plated"; and I had no reasons for doubting, so I ordered the watch. Some people say that, considering the cost of the gold and the weight of the bracelet links, the price of a TT Sub couldn't lesser than 1000 Euros. This objection would be valid for an item lawfully manifactured and distributed; but the replicas are considered illegal goods virtually in any country of the world. So it's unlikely that someone crafting illegal items gets (precious) raw materials through lawful channels; it's much more likely that he purchases gold remelted from second-hand jewels (at that even of doubtful provenance), at a fraction of the price. Hence, I assumed that George said the truth.

Since there are some differences between the watch I ordered and the one reviewed by jake48, this post has to be regarded as an update.

I haven't any gen TT sub on hand; so, I could only compare my watch with pictures of the original ones dowloaded from websites.

The first difference dwells in the price; currently, the watch is cheaper than before, costing 572 USD that, considering the current rate of exchange, are equivalent to about 375 Euros. Unfortunately, the Italian customs charged me further 24 Euros (about 38$), so I paid a total amount of 399 Euros (610$), sum that you usually pay for a quality watch. Is the WM9 Submariner a quality watch? Let's see...

The bracelet

The bracelet arrived first, without the watch, together with a birthday greetings card, in style of WM9. Some people consider it an eccentricity, but I suppose that George has good reasons for this oddity.

The bracelet looks excellent. I wasn't be able to notice any evidence referable to a wrapping or plating process. The inner parts of the SEL seemed tarnished, but this sort of "coat" was removable scraping it with a little screwdriver. Unfortunately, it has a little dent on the golden part of the clasp. The diver extension end of the clasp isn't in contact with the bracelet, but this seems common to the gen bracelet too.

The golden midlinks are deathly sensitive; you may scratch them with a cotton tip.

The links look absolutely identical to the genuine ones (with a gen Rolesium link in the picture below)

I'm sorry, but I didn't dare to make a hole in a midlink in order to verify that they actually consist of solid gold. I trust George; if the links turn out to be plated, I'll put a curse on him.

The watch

It arrived perfectly wrapped in a bubbled sheet, with a plastic protection on the bezel.

The dial printing is very good; the font is the one with the flat "S" on SUBMARINER (as for the others Subs from WM9). Maybe it's less common, but the TT Sub depicted on the Rolex site sports that font.

The hour markers and the hands seem to be closer to gen than the "NoobFactory" Sub ones; at least, I got such an impression comparing my photo (that isn't good indeed) with those from the review written by By-Tor.

The only flaw I was be able to notice concerns the date window. It seems to me that it's too small, and the smaller size is counterbalanced by a greater magnification power of the loupe. This has two "side effects":

1) the date font seems too big: the numbers "touch" the window's edges

2) when the dial is seen from some angles, the date window looks misaglined, because the parallax is amplified by the greater magnification power.

In my opinion, this isn't a minor flaw because the latter "side effect" is pretty noticeable.

The crown tube is no more "old style"; the watch comes provided with the gen style, correct, tube, as for the 16610.

It should be noted that the watch now comes with a non-holographic sticker as for the new Supreme Submariner from Precious Time (same source?)

The laser etched coronet is visible to the naked eye, but not so noticeable as it appears on the pictures. It's slightly less evident than in my SSD; I guess that the occasional observer can't see it. On the other hand, the coronet can be seen even in photos of a gen (see the picture from the above-mentioned By-Tor review); all things considered, it isn't perfect, but it's acceptable.

The crownguards are thick, but definitely less thick than on my unmodified SSD;

in my opinion, the thickness and the shape of the CGs are acceptable, and I won't modify them.

The movement

I can say nothing about it, because I haven't open the caseback. It supposed to be a Swiss ETA 2836-A2; at least, so George says, and I currently trust him.

It's a 4 Hz movement indeed (it can easily gathered looking at the second hand), but the rotor is noisy, much more than in my SSD (both should be equipped with the same 2836-A2 movement); besides, I met some difficulty in pulling out the crown. Two or three times I shifted the crown at second notch so that the hands could be set, but the second hand kept on running. I don't know the reason; I hope the issue is in some way related to the running-in of the movement mentioned on the Watchmaker9 website. I asked George that confirmed my guess; and I trusted him once again.

Final notes

The watch is a beauty, the only faults being the date window issue.

So, is the watch worth the price? Undoubtely, if the golden parts are in solid gold and the movement will work for decades (as it should do). If not so, purchasing a "noobfactory" TT Sub remains the best option. Time will tell...

[specialvat]

Great reviews, I was nearly talking myself out of a TT. Now well its twice as tough, lovely watch.

[BOOGIE_1976]

very impressive.

i really want an identical TT replica so bad but i was afraid to order thinking that wm9 may be another scammer or his TT is another crap.

i am interested only in solid gold not wrapped or plated.

[johnaphro]

Today i got mine,the same birthday card,shipped from taiwan,i got the whole watch and the sender has MY SURNAME

Now the strange part,when i checked it i saw that the rehaut is engraved with rolex logo

As all now the z serie is without engraved rehaut also and the WM9 site provides the z serie sub woth no engraved rehaut,whats going on?????????

I will try to post pics.

[ubiquitous]

Very interesting. I didn't think wm9 was issuing watches with rehaut engraving...

[w.genzo]

WM9 told me that both cases are available, I received one too a few days ago

[johnaphro]

Yesterday i emailed to WM9 about this but still no reply,sorry i am not able to upload pics,mine is exactly as the previous tt but with engraving rehaut.

[johnaphro]

Ok but he didnt asked me or told me that there are two rehaut options,i dont like the engraving rehaut....

WM9 told me that both cases are available, I received one too a few days ago

[BOOGIE_1976]

WM9 told me that both cases are available, I received one too a few days ago

and?????

details please

[johnaphro]

Hi all,

Today,after a couple of days,George from wm9 replied with apologies for the delay.

He told me that i got the new M serie that has engavings at rehaut and a serial number with M under the 6 possition.

I told you that i dont want it with engravings and he said that he can exchange it with a z serie ,i wait his instructions how can it be this.

Just for the records the at the top of rehaut near the 11 posistion under the crystal there is a dent that i checked it immediately.

Except this the quality of this rep is outstanding.

I wait Geroge instructions for the exchange ........

[rosnik]

I think that the large amount of people that buy rep. , are not sure skilled peoples like on RWG.

The large amount of the market people now ask for Engraved 16610, and the factory simply do what market ask for.

So ,

if you love , like I do , non engraved 16610, buy them now, on the next few time it will be not more deliverable for sure.

This happened with the DateJust too.

Now you can find only the new fat egraved type one, and the factories stopped the hold ( BMW better) slim type.....

[RobbieG]

It is clear from this review that they finally got the gold right. The older 14K plating always had that sort of "barky" orange hue to it. This is tough because Rolex's particular 18K mix (both yellow & pink actually) are just so special color-wise. They really stand out in the industry IMO. Rolex gold is just...Rolex gold. Pale and muted and creamy. You all know I am a big UN fan, but I always say how terrible their rose gold looks. I ordered a new diver chrono recently in rose and sent it back because I couldn't bear to look at it. Seriously. Anyway, I digress, but Rolex gold is just so special and if a rep can come close to capturing it I score big points for that. To me, no matter what the details accomplish, if a TT rep doesn't get that right it is all over. Nice to see some great looking plated gold...

[involt]

FYI:

Following George's instructions, I wore my TT Sub for about a week; then I put it in its box.

After having read a post on the WM9 forum ("Brown stains on my sub two tone bracelet"), I opened the box, and this is what I saw looking at the inner part of the bracelet:

I couldn't say that the midlinks were "tarnished"; they mainly seemed "wore out"; and the brown stains couldn't be removed wiping them.

So I polished the stained area, then I re-brushed it. This is the result:

The polished area remain golden, but there is an imperceptible edge (indicated by the arrows) between the stained area and the rest of the midlink.

I don't know what it exactly means; I hope it can be a useful piece of information somehow.

[johnaphro]

For sure wm9 tt sub was the last rep with <gold>parts that i bought,NEVER again rep with <gold>

FYI:

Following George's instructions, I wore my TT Sub for about a week; then I put it in its box.

After having read a post on the WM9 forum ("Brown stains on my sub two tone bracelet"), I opened the box, and this is what I saw looking at the inner part of the bracelet:

I couldn't say that the midlinks were "tarnished"; they mainly seemed "wore out"; and the brown stains couldn't be removed wiping them.

So I polished the stained area, then I re-brushed it. This is the result:

The polished area remain golden, but there is an imperceptible edge (indicated by the arrows) between the stained area and the rest of the midlink.

I don't know what it exactly means; I hope it can be a useful piece of information somehow.

[johnaphro]

Just got instructions from wm9(George)how to send back the tt sub with engravings ,sounds good how fast he replied,good sign(sure is his fault)

[involt]

In my opinion George is a kind and polite person, and I'm absolutely sure that he definitely is not a scammer. But I have the impression he sometimes doesn't exactly know every detail about the items that he himself sells.

Edited September 20, 2008 by involt

[Star69]

please please - somebody explain to

me why i should buy form WM9 ?

because more expensive means better ?

cheers,

Frank

[johnaphro]

Some details worths,the rehaut is the best ever seen in sub,case,clasp,very good end links without gap,i am not expert but i have got garbages from other very <popular>dealers.

please please - somebody explain to

me why i should buy form WM9 ?

because more expensive means better ?

cheers,

Frank