"Too Busy"

[Victoria]

When a member asked why so many people on RWG love the base, PAM 112, my reply was going to be the sleek, elegant lines and simple dial.

But really, I realised I like it because it's uncluttered. It says "Luminor" and "Panerai", e basta.

Certain watches have so many bells & whistles, the GMTs, the date, the day, the chronograph, and ENDLESS little descriptions like "Automatic" that, "Certified" this -- that's it's just too much, really.

Funnily enough, I buy the watches just the same. And some actually would look odd if they didn't have all these words on the dials, possibly because I expect them.

But do you like "busy" dial watches? What is the most cluttered watch out there?

[Desuetude]

Busy enough for you?

I like it, but no two ways around the fact that it is about as busy as it gets!

[jkerouac]

It's only clutter if it serves no function. So one man's clutter is another man's necessity.

Diamonds on a watch, for example, don't serve any function that is meaningful to me.

Date wheels and GMT hands, on the other hand, are extremely useful features, more so than numerals on bezels.

Unless you are a diver or actually use them for timing purposes, I find numbers on bezels to be the an unnecessary piece of busy-ness.

Having said that, I still love all of my watches with numbered bezels, including the SMP, which I am wearing today, the UPO, Speedmaster, and Chopard Mille Miglia GMT.

Along the line of thought that you are pursuing, I wonder what percentage of RWG members' collections are made up of chronos and what percentage is non-chrono. I just checked my collection, and mine is split between 5 chronos and 7 non-chronos.

[Victoria]

Busy enough for you?

What a Sinn!

[Victoria]

It's only clutter if it serves no function. So one man's clutter is another man's necessity.

Absolutely true. It also goes to that Importance of Function thread.

Diamonds on a watch, for example, don't serve any function that is meaningful to me.

Right, but that's aesthetic, which is in contrast to the functionality.

My mum loves diamonds in watches, but though I wear them to show you on wristchecks, I don't much care for them myself.

Date wheels and GMT hands, on the other hand, are extremely useful features, more so than numerals on bezels.

Agreed.

Unless you are a diver or actually use them for timing purposes, I find numbers on bezels to be the an unnecessary piece of busy-ness.

I'm also wondering if pilots use all those "slideruler" functions, shown amazingly above in that Sinn watch.

I realise they don't need to keep their eyes on the road, like automobile drivers, but man...

I just checked my collection, and mine is split between 5 chronos and 7 non-chronos.

I'm not big into chronos.

I have two gens which have them, and I never use them. For my reps...well, with such a large collection, I'm sure I'll get the number wrong, but I must have about 5 too.

If I had my druthers, I'd choose an atomic clock functionality on my watches without the clutter, though. Unfortunately, I'm not into Casios...

[rek001]

Good topic, V.

I'm strongly considering buying a Chopard Mille Miglia GMT chrono, white dial/black subs but haven't done it yet because sometimes it looks just too busy. Other days I think it's drop dead gorgeous.

I'm very torn right now.

[Victoria]

Good topic, V.

Thanks, Rima. Nice to see you on today. Happy Thanksigiving to you, your girlfriend and families!

I'm strongly considering buying a Chopard Mille Miglia GMT chrono, white dial/black subs but haven't done it yet because sometimes it looks just too busy. Other days I think it's drop dead gorgeous.

I'm very torn right now.

I demurred in buying the MM, because as you well pointed out once regarding another watch, it's too big for my wrists. Also, I heard that rotor sounds like an old Gypsy Moth aeroplane kicking in.

It's a nice watch though, overall.

Rima, guys, you won't believe this, but I JUST THIS MOMENT picked up a package containing a Breitling for Bentley.

Busier than Grand Central Station on Turkey Day, hooboy. So many little dials, and wotsits.

And guess what? I fell in love with it at first sight. Pics later.

[cc]

my Pam 063 is pretty busy for me. the dial has a lot going on for a Pam + the gmt hand + the cyclops.

cc

[FxrAndy]

Come on then Vic wrist shot, its your thread after all!

[ironmarshal]

I'm not much for the cluttered look myself. I'll use the elapsed time indicator on the bezel, but almost never will I use any function in a subdial, other than the date. I think that's one of the reasons for Rolex's continued popularity....with the exception of the Daytona, the dials are relatively uncluttered by useless subdials.

Does anybody actually ever use these, and if so for what?

[Victoria]

Come on then Vic wrist shot, its your thread after all!

I already had a PM about this!

I will definitely shoot the pics in a sec, guys. It's me mum's birthday, so I'm getting ready for a quick celebration. When I return, pics.

It's the brown-dial Breitling for Bentley. Maybe it's a cheapie, maybe those of you with Breitlings would laugh, but WOW, this marque is macho, testosterone-filled sexiness!

Let's club together and buy Redroom one to wear for his bad girl bird!

[Slartibartfast]

AAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHH my eyes...my eyes!!

[rek001]

Happy Thanksgiving to you, your BF and family, V.

On the right sized wrist the Bentley indeed looks very sexy.

On topic, I use bezels to time parking meters, very useful.

I'd like to use my asian 7750 chronos to time things I'm doing just for mindless fun, but sadly, I'm afraid to use the chrono for fear the movement will break. I wish they'd refine this movement.

[andreww]

BTW, just to clarify for those who will undoubtedly see the similarities between Deseteude's beautiful Sinn, and the Breitling Navitimer. There was a period of time when Breitling was not doing very well, and the assets of the company were sold. At one point these assets were aquired by Sinn, and they actually used the Breitling inventory of parts to produce their own Navitimer. So the Sinn pictured above is not technically a rip-off of the Navi, but more of an evolution from this...

[b16a2]

This is a very busy dial, but for a very necessary reason. One of my favourite Breitlings..........

The Navitimer World

[Victoria]

This is a very busy dial, but for a very necessary reason. One of my favourite Breitlings..........

The Navitimer World

I'll never doubt you again, b16a2!

Sometimes, you really DO have to see a watch in person. This Breitling for Bentley is gorgeous, even if it's as busy as all get out.

Wow!

...yes, I took a wristcheck shot. But oh dear. I look like a prison warden. No can post I'm afraid. It could come back to haunt me.

[TeeJay]

When I was younger, I used to really like multi-dial watches (corrupted by the Seiko in Octopussy) However, as I got older, I realized that a lot of the functions on such watches, I never used, so getting such a watch was pretty pointless. Now, I like my watches to be as uncomplicated as possible (probably why I like PAMs so much) Things like GMT can make the watch too busy, it depends how it is handled. For example. The 029a. Barely visible GMT indicator hand (some might not like it, wanting something more visible, but, I personally find it a bit like a butler:Invisible untill required) The 24hr scale is on the bezel, rather than being on the dial face, so not actually cluttering the dial. However, there are GMT PAMs with the 24hr scale on the dial and a GMT hand which is as visible as the primary hands, which, altogether, (I feel) combine to clutter the dial. I only used the GMT as an example, as it's something I would wear more when the function will be used, rather than just wearing it (although every now and again, I do think, "Damn that's a nice watch, I'm wearing that today!" ) Bearing that in mind, I have little use for a watch with chrono functions (although I want to get the chrono PAM worn in The Transporter for my movie collection) so would likely not wear one very often anymore.

[b16a2]

I'll never doubt you again, b16a2!

Sometimes, you really DO have to see a watch in person. This Breitling for Bentley is gorgeous, even if it's as busy as all get out.

Wow!

You better believe it

Breitlings are famous for their fancy dials, allowing for the many different calculations that can be done. I sometimes think that Breitling is like Marmite..... if you ever see a Breitling in real life, you'll either be hooked on them, or disregard them in digust.

Another favourite of mine;

[Victoria]

Bearing that in mind, I have little use for a watch with chrono functions (although I want to get the chrono PAM worn in The Transporter for my movie collection) so would likely not wear one very often anymore.

I enjoyed Transporters for the great watch sightings. So far, though, we've spoken of subdials and chronos, etc.

How about the printing?

That can really clutter up a lot of the watches. OTOH, I love me some Pateks, but this is just TOO plain.

[maxmilian]

I enjoyed Transformer for the great watch sightings. So far, though, we've spoken of subdials and chronos, etc.

How about the printing?

That can really clutter up a lot of the watches. OTOH, I love me some Pateks, but this is just TOO plain.

A Patek can never, and I mean never be to plain in my opinion

[TeeJay]

I enjoyed Transformer for the great watch sightings. So far, though, we've spoken of subdials and chronos, etc.

Are you sure we're thinking of the same movie(s) I'm thinking of the movies with Jason Statham, where he was wearing a PAM Chrono (and from his comments on the DVD commentary, it sounded like it was his own personal property, rather than one provided by the costume department), not Transformers, with the lovely Megan Fox

How about the printing?

Indeed, on Submariner's (and to a degree, Seamasters), all the 'blurb' can be cluttering and unneccesary. I'd even say that Marina Militare Luminor Panerai looks cluttered compared to Luminor Panerai

That can really clutter up a lot of the watches. OTOH, I love me some Pateks, but this is just TOO plain.

Plain is good, after all, a 112h has hardly any printing, and, even a 'sterile' 112h would look nice, I think the problem with that watch is that rather than being 'plain', the hands, indices and dial are so slim they rather 'blend in' at a casual glance...

Edited November 20, 2007 by TeeJay

[scoobs1971]

I prefer a functional design. That's why I love my PAMs (especially the 111 & 177) and I adore the IWC Big Pilot (unfortunately way too big for my wrist). I also have a couple of chronos which by nature are busier than watches with less complications. But a chrono complication is as far as I would go. Perpetual calenders, moon phases, calculation rulers, alarms etc. are really not my cup of tea from an aestatic point of view.

Less = More.

[jkerouac]

Good topic, V.

I'm strongly considering buying a Chopard Mille Miglia GMT chrono, white dial/black subs but haven't done it yet because sometimes it looks just too busy. Other days I think it's drop dead gorgeous.

I'm very torn right now.

I demurred in buying the MM, because as you well pointed out once regarding another watch, it's too big for my wrists. Also, I heard that rotor sounds like an old Gypsy Moth aeroplane kicking in.

It's a nice watch though, overall.

The MM GMT chrono is my busiest watch, which violates a lot of the prejudices (or preferences) I have in watches -- numbers on the bezel (used to indicate GMT time), a cyclops (I really don't care for them) and the black subdial on white dial layout (my Speedmaser started out with this layout and I never really warmed to the watch until I had a black on black dial installed). Yes, it's busy, but it all works. Possibly my favorite rep.

The rotor noise problem applies to the non-chrono Mille Miglia Gran Turismo XL with the Asian movement. A very small spot of lubrication should eliminate the noise.

Things like GMT can make the watch too busy, it depends how it is handled. For example. The 029a. Barely visible GMT indicator hand (some might not like it, wanting something more visible, but, I personally find it a bit like a butler:Invisible untill required) The 24hr scale is on the bezel, rather than being on the dial face, so not actually cluttering the dial. However, there are GMT PAMs with the 24hr scale on the dial and a GMT hand which is as visible as the primary hands, which, altogether, (I feel) combine to clutter the dial.

Funny, but I avoided buying the 029 specifically because of the numerals on the bezel. On the 063 the 24 hour indicators are fairly small numerals on the outside of the dial itself, and still retain a rather clean look. The only extraneous element that mars the 063, in my opinion, is the cyclops. I do, however, like the tuxedo dial on the 029, and that is an extraneous design element, although an extremely attractive one.

[Desuetude]

I demurred in buying the MM, because as you well pointed out once regarding another watch, it's too big for my wrists. Also, I heard that rotor sounds like an old Gypsy Moth aeroplane kicking in.

Well...the GMT, IIRC, is 42mm, it's the GTXL that's the bigger one, and that's only 45mm. I have a B4B 6.75, and having had a GTXL, let me tell you, not only is the B4B actually bigger...it looks significantly larger than other watches that are technically the same size as it. Mine is even more exaggerated, since it has a white face, which really accentuates the overall size of the beast, although I do wear mine on a gen blue croc (what a combo, btw!). Needless to say, a GTXL would not be too big for your wrists, miss fiddy and B4B wearer! And yes, it's the 21J version that has the loud rotor noise, but it didn't really bother me that much.

PS...I'd take GCS on Thanksgiving over GCS on the days leading up to christmas and new year's...I do have to go there pretty much every day. I'm pretty sure that's when the highest incidence of lost children occurs.

BTW, just to clarify for those who will undoubtedly see the similarities between Deseteude's beautiful Sinn, and the Breitling Navitimer. There was a period of time when Breitling was not doing very well, and the assets of the company were sold. At one point these assets were aquired by Sinn, and they actually used the Breitling inventory of parts to produce their own Navitimer. So the Sinn pictured above is not technically a rip-off of the Navi, but more of an evolution from this...

Helmut Sinn didn't just use Breitling's parts inventory...he bought the rights to the original 806/809/cosmo designs. That's why they say that if someone wants a modern watch whose aesthetics and heritage are authentic to the original 809, you go and buy yourself a Sinn 903, not a Breitling. As currently sold by Watchbuys:

This is a very busy dial, but for a very necessary reason. One of my favourite Breitlings..........

The Navitimer World

Totally with you on that one...man do I miss her. *sigh*

the lovely Megan Fox

She would be really lovely, too bad she's tatooed up like the woman on Miami Ink.

[ironmarshal]

I use my chronos all the time. I like to time my commute on my bike, and for different rides on trails around here.

It's amazing to track personal performance and see how it improves over the summer. Then when winter comes

the rides all slow down and the chronos don't get used much.

I guess I should exercise more!