freddy333 Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 A few months ago, Pugwash made an observation about the way the crown on gen Rolexes with CGs sits closer to the perimeter of the bezel (where it overlaps the edge of the case) than the crown on a rep does. At first, the whole notion struck me as a non-issue & I dismissed it thinking that no one could possibly ever detect the difference out in the wild, even at close range (arm's length). So I happily went about my business without giving it another thought. Until last week............... While walking to my table in a restaurant, I passed a guy sitting at the bar wearing a Daytona -- a twotone version of the white 116520 that I had on. So, obviously, it caught my attention. It was yuppie night at this restaurant and the guy (and his lady friend) fit the part to a 't', so I just thought, 'Huh, poor guy probably got tired of waiting and waiting and waiting for a steel one, and took the steel & gold model. Still, Cool'. Our table was not that far from the bar, so I caught a few glances of his watch while we ate our dinner. But something odd kept catching my eye, the way something that just does not look right keeps tugging at you even though you are not really aware of what the problem is. Maybe it was the light in the restaurant or my mood or my viewing angle or sun spots, but it finally dawned on me that Mr. Success is wearing a high end Daytona rep (like mine). Once I focused in on this, I started to look more often & was able to detect the telltale problems with his CGs, which were covering too much of the crown (he had one of the later versions with wider CGs like Ubi's & Stephane's). He was far enough away from me so that I could not be positive, but I think most of the regulars here would have been able to pick it out. But as I kept checking the guy out, trying to get a better view of his dial, it hit me like a ton of bricks that there was too much metal between the crown & the curve of the case......just like my otherwise beautiful 116520. So there it was, The Pugwash Complaint, and it was staring me right in the face (note the bit of metal between the '240' on the bezel's scale and the bottom of the crown) (This is the watch with its original CGs) Ever the neurotic perfectionist, I set about to address The P'laint (cute, huh?) so I could go back to wearing my favorite piece of chrono-bling without having to look over my shoulder to see if some well-informed WIS had ID'd the incorrect crown distance spec of my watch. So, finally, tonight, after spending more time filing, sanding, dremeling, buffing & polishing, I think I got my 116520's CGs pretty close (it may not be apparent in the picture, but I even maintained the curvature of the case below the crown as on the gen). (This is the watch after I modified the CGs) Not quite the same angle, but here is a gen 116520 for a general comparison (This is a gen 116520 for reference) Opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greystash Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 (edited) The CG's in you last pic simply look neater and sharper that when you started. The fact that they are more accurate now seems less important then the fact that they look professionally finished; neat and proper. So great job and an excellent eye for detail freddy. Opps EDIT: I just realised the last pic was a gen. I'd like to see another shot of the CG's that is angled so we can see further into the corner where you did the work. Edited December 7, 2007 by Greystash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tech Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Very nice freddy....I think your re-work on the CG is excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I'd like to see another shot of the CG's that is angled so we can see further into the corner where you did the work. Try these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greystash Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Try these Well I'd say they'd have to look elsewhere to spot your rep now. And they had better be close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 wow....amazing what a difference a small change like that can make. looks great freddy do you have a post where you give more details about this daytona? she's a beauty deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Very nice work... Now the single, most obvious tell is your sub-dial spacing... (then the bezel stamping and that furry DAYTONA, then... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 wow....amazing what a difference a small change like that can make. looks great freddy do you have a post where you give more details about this daytona? she's a beauty Delta - Thank you for the kind & encouraging words. I have written a good deal about this particular watch due to its unusual longevity. I did a quick search and found one rather lengthy (and VERY informative) post (here) that contains alot of background & describes some of the differences between the various versions of these seconds at 6 Daytonas (my comments begin towards the end of the first page). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXTurbo930 Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 very nice job indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Very nice work... Now the single, most obvious tell is your sub-dial spacing... (then the bezel stamping and that furry DAYTONA, then... ) Thanks. The sub dial spacing & Daytona font (particularly the "A"s)...... I think the only way to make a $230 (original price paid) watch indistinguishable from an $8,000 - $15,000 (depending on your luck and patience threshold) one is to replace the quite beautiful rep dial for a gen, and, believe me, I have been searching. The bezel, however, is pretty dead on. Rolex originally issued these watches with the earlier 16520 bezel and narrow hands and then, later (around 2002 I think) updated the bezels with smaller & slightly bolder fonts and replaced the hour/minute hands with wider versions (which I think was a step in the right direction since they make the time easier to read). The gen 116520 I included in the original post is one of those early versions (pic came from one of the long-time TZ'ers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrandazzo Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Great work man! You're anal! How did you notice that in a restaurant, with few lights and from a distant table? Kudos! I wish I could have your fake-sensitive eyes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I love the watch... and I think you have done an excellent job in modding the crown guards. AND, I'm glad you have a sense of humor enough not to take offense to my poking a bit o' fun... (I kinda figured you'd be looking for a new dial...) as to the bezel... well... "Units per Hour" just looks a little too 'outside' or 'high' to me... and while the font is correct for some models, the stamping just isn't 'sharp' enough to my eye... niggling, I know... the only other issue that is immediately noticeable to me is that the steel seems a bit too "chrome"... well, that, and the crown seems a bit 'thick'... and the pushers a bit long, and... there I go again... Just don't be too neurotic about the watch... It really is beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Now I hate my CG !!! Well done Freddy. It never was a watch I checked out and wanted to mod but now it seem to me that mine is way off :ohmy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I love the watch... and I think you have done an excellent job in modding the crown guards. AND, I'm glad you have a sense of humor enough not to take offense to my poking a bit o' fun... (I kinda figured you'd be looking for a new dial...) as to the bezel... well... "Units per Hour" just looks a little too 'outside' or 'high' to me... and while the font is correct for some models, the stamping just isn't 'sharp' enough to my eye... niggling, I know... the only other issue that is immediately noticeable to me is that the steel seems a bit too "chrome"... well, that, and the crown seems a bit 'thick'... and the pushers a bit long, and... there I go again... Just don't be too neurotic about the watch... It really is beautiful. Thank you. I think I mentioned in a couple other threads that I want a gen dial, but the only white one I have seen sold for nearly $1,000. Not sure I am with you on the bezel, but I will try to locate a couple more pictures of gens with similar bezels (to mine) in my hard drive archives. The crown (and tube) & pushers are gens, but the metal spacers that are supposed to go between the pusher body & the case were out of stock and I did not want to wait for them, which may explain why the pushers appear a bit too close to the case. The 'chrome' appearance I would, again, chalk up to what you get for an approximately $230 watch. But some of that may also be due to the successive applications of automotive polish that I applied following the dremeling, rouging & buffing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Great work man! You're anal! How did you notice that in a restaurant, with few lights and from a distant table? Kudos! Thank you. The restaurant was not dark and, after messing around with watches for 20 or so years, I guess you get a bit anal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Now I hate my CG !!! Well done Freddy. It never was a watch I checked out and wanted to mod but now it seem to me that mine is way off :ohmy: You might want to check out my comments following Ubi's mini-review of his friend's 116520 (which is the same version you have). I think it was back in April, but you can probably Search it out based on '116520' and my handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 You might want to check out my comments following Ubi's mini-review of his friend's 116520 (which is the same version you have). I think it was back in April, but you can probably Search it out based on '116520' and my handle. Hmmm, couldn't find Ubi's mini review but looked at your comments in BT's review... Thanks. ...and I still want mine to be done, so feel free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 After you did some work again,they look damm good I think... Good work my friend... I like it a lot.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llsteve80 Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 You and your daytona pics!..... Y'know, I never used to look twice at daytonas, then I was liking the vintage, like the newman and 6263, and now I'm even starting to like the newer ones. Much of this can be credited to your excellent pictures. I'm seriuosly thinking about a MM v23 copy DW 6263 right now just to kill the crave for a while, and slowly building a V72 version. Whats blowing my mind is which dial to get, the black with white subdials, or the black newman with white subs. A little more on topic, I read in a newspaper once (sorry no link, a REAL newspaper ) that 1 out of 2 daytonas that exist in the world are replica. Knowing that and knowing how to spot one will really cause one to glance twice (or 20 times) at any daytona they see. And the CG's look great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Hmmm, couldn't find Ubi's mini review but looked at your comments in BT's review... Thanks. Try here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Thanks again Freddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I would really recommend using gens as models for your mods, but several people have requested additional pictures, so here they are (pardon the dust & debris) All of the actual shaping was done, by hand, with a set of small hobby files. The dremel was only used for the initial buffing (with green rouge), which was followed by hand-buffing with my usual Meguiar's Number 7 (Show Car Glaze) to remove the tiny marks left by the rouge. I hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB7 Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Just modded my CG's using gio's gen vs. rep comparison along with freddy's pics...What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Just modded my CG's using gio's gen vs. rep comparison along with freddy's pics...What do you guys think? I would like to see a better (closer & clearer) picture like this, but from what I can see, they look great. In the meantime, you might find this useful (A black dial gen 116520) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greystash Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I like those above shots of yours freddy, again the CG's look great and so does the watch overall. UB7 looks like he has has some fun as well. Great effort and thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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