mezzanine Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 It wouldn't change the fact he was right. Exactly true, but that's true of the Breitling's too. I was surprised, a lot of people are aware of high quality reps. At the end of the day, all of our watches (here) are reps- that's the point, but in terms of degree of believability, relative to price, I believe there are equally convincing examples within the Rolex line. Interestingly enough, I haven't had anyone ask me question whether either of the rollies were gen yet, but have had a few people notice it. Admittedly, one of them was a shocked, "whoa, is that real?" that was more rhetorical, because I think he was convinced already that it was...so it more exclaimative. I believe it's possible for both non-watch people, who know nothing other than the name, and more knowledgable folks to be convinced alike. I'm not saying that's the goal, I'm just saying that there's a presence with some of these watches, when fully modded (ie: including gen dial, etc..) are convincing pieces in their own right. The whole point is that, yes, the Rolex is still a rep. But, unless I tell you it's not, if you're a newb or if you're a familiar with Rolex vintage watches, you're going to be impressed. The vintages just aren't as likely to be repped in the mainstream world's expectation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj69 Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 (edited) I would say that the ASIAN version of the SFSO is the best rep out there right now FOR THE MONEY. Some dealers have it as low as $105 + ship. Mine has the white dial and bracelet. I don't miss the AR at all (or the overpriced ETA movement, for that matter). You can buy 10 spare RG movements for the price difference, and just junk them when they fail. However, the 12 o'clock marker on the SFSO dial does not match up with the markers on the chapter ring and the bezel. If I'm not mistaken, all versions of the SFSO have this flaw. That, to me, is a rather embarrassing flaw for a an otherwise excellent rep. I would definitely say the HBB (any version) is by far the rep of the year. Too much went into repping that case so flawlessly to ignore it. The fact that they even sourced real ceramic bezels is astounding. The only real flaw on the watch is the uneven 20/30 markers on the dail, and that is far less noticeable than the cockeyed 12 o'clock markers on the SFSO. Haven't gotten a Cousteau or the Sleven yet (waiting for bracelets), but the 3717 rep is also a contender. Edited December 22, 2007 by jj69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 I would say that the ASIAN version of the SFSO is the best rep out there right now FOR THE MONEY. Some dealers have it as low as $105 + ship. Mine has the white dial and bracelet. I don't miss the AR at all (or the overpriced ETA movement, for that matter). You can buy 10 spare RG movements for the price difference, and just junk them when they fail. However, the 12 o'clock marker on the SFSO dial does not match up with the markers on the chapter ring and the bezel. If I'm not mistaken, all versions of the SFSO have this flaw. That, to me, is a rather embarrassing flaw for a an otherwise excellent rep. I would definitely say the HBB (any version) is by far the rep of the year. Too much went into repping that case so flawlessly to ignore it. The fact that they even sourced real ceramic bezels is astounding. The only real flaw on the watch is the uneven 20/30 markers on the dail, and that is far less noticeable than the cockeyed 12 o'clock markers on the SFSO. Haven't gotten a Cousteau or the Sleven yet (waiting for bracelets), but the 3717 rep is also a contender. Good analysis, jj. Even though I'm not a fan, I could definitely buy in to the HBB being rep of the year - not one of the easier reps to pull off. The IWCs are good, but too flawed out of the box (and perhaps even after modest modding) to be contenders IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj69 Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Good analysis, jj. Even though I'm not a fan, I could definitely buy in to the HBB being rep of the year - not one of the easier reps to pull off. The IWCs are good, but too flawed out of the box (and perhaps even after modest modding) to be contenders IMO. Chief, Just so I know for future reference, what are the flaws on the Cousteau and Slevin (besides the lack of a real bracelet)? I'm not aware of any on the 3717. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellomen Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 although i agree with the SOSF being the rep of the year i think some TAG heuer chronos would be great runner-ups!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
predfan2001 Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 The SOSF will be my first "non Rolex or Omega" rep. Most likely in a darker dial. It is truely a beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratchpot Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 I think the criteria for the "Rep of the Year" award should be out of the box accuracy, and in the event of a "tie-break", complexity should be judged. The price of the gen should not be taken into account. Also, there are a lot of people out there that simply don't like Rolexes, PAMs, Tags or Breitlings etc and, not to forget, there are a lot of HBB fan-boys etc. These biases should not be allowed to influence the award. If there is anything out there that matches the SOSF for accuracy, then we should go to the complexity criteria. If there is a more accurate rep than the SOSF, the SOSF should be ruled out. Otherwise the SOSF takes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireman_Fred Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 I have to say, I'm with Pug. The SFSO is a simple, sturdy design that has been replicated to an extremely high standard. IMO the standard ss bracelet that it comes with does it no favours but as soon as you put it on a (brown) leather strap it transforms it. The fact that it is relatively simple in design, (much like the ever popular SMP or Sub), it is going to remain a favourite for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Interesting secondary question: How many out there have samped most of the watches that should be in the running? I'm talking about: SFSO Cousteau Divers HBB SS or ceramic MBK Patek Nautilus MBK AP ROO uPO IWC 3717 Breitling Blackbird Tag Link Chrono DSN Pams- 112, 127, etc.. Rolex SSD Breitling Evo Chopard GTXL This is the list of potential candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireman_Fred Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Interesting secondary question: How many out there have samped most of the watches that should be in the running? I'm talking about: SFSO Cousteau Divers HBB SS or ceramic MBK Patek Nautilus MBK AP ROO uPO IWC 3717 Breitling Blackbird Tag Link Chrono DSN Pams- 112, 127, etc.. Rolex SSD Breitling Evo Chopard GTXL This is the list of potential candidates. I agree absolutely - there are many contenders out there but, as I said in my last thread, the "secret" of the SFSO is it's simplicity. Many of the watches you have listed are great reps but the more "complicated" the gen, the more chance of a flaw appearing in the rep. Having said that, the flaws often appear to be things that could be easily rectified (bad pearls, misaligned bezels etc). The thing that always amazes me is that the factories are able to copy the more intricate details (sub dials, patterns/waves/swirls etc on dials...) and then they go and stick the pearl on wonky !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Which brings up the question, what was the worst rep of 2007? My vote would be for the 7750 powered 192. Saw one of these recently and it looked terrible. The dial has a gloss finish and the tachymeter ring is flat and matte. Very unimpressive. Thanks mate for the borrowed pic, but I know you sold it already :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 $2,000 is a lot of money and I am sympathetic but only to those who didn't buy 3 other higher end reps this year. If you did you were 75% of the way to the gen and if you like it that much.... It is an excellent rep though. But as has been said, when your talking simple dial and movement and a case that has been done again and again it doesn't hit my best of anything other than best rep out of the box for less than $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 $2,000 is a lot of money and I am sympathetic but only to those who didn't buy 3 other higher end reps this year. If you did you were 75% of the way to the gen and if you like it that much.... It is an excellent rep though. But as has been said, when your talking simple dial and movement and a case that has been done again and again it doesn't hit my best of anything other than best rep out of the box for less than $250. Not only that, but you can pick up a used SFSO for around $1200 if you're patient...and I don't even really the cheaper source of Silix as being really significant to the value of the watch in the market, I'd still put it at $300...but that's just based on my experience. The Cousteau Divers doesn't get enough respect, IMO. The SS HBB that TWP is now offering for around $350, if I remember, is probably one of the better deals going in the rep world... Also, most of us have more $$ in these watches than we might realize. I discovered that recently, and decided to shave my collection down to five watches. They're five of the top reps available, and they cost me around the same price as the new SFSO in some countries. Yikes...the idea of trading my watches, one of which is a chrono that's been serviced, the other that has a gen bezel worth $800, and the others that have been modded with gen parts to the tune of $1500, for a single gen based on a standard ETA, isn't a great value for a young fella like myself who loves watches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Chief, Just so I know for future reference, what are the flaws on the Cousteau and Slevin (besides the lack of a real bracelet)? I'm not aware of any on the 3717. The 3717 dial print, especially the numerals, is too bold compared to the gen. The Slevin and Cousteau have printing issues that are less obvious around the rehaut/bezel ring. Look at the thickness of the inverted numbers vs the thickness of the directly printed numbers. They're different but should be the same. Also compare the thickness of the directly printed numbers to the gen... too bold in comparison. I also think the IWC and SCHAFFHAUSEN print is a little too big and bold. Still, IMO, the Slevin dial is quite good - much better than the 3717 dial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Baron Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 I agree. *Most* people don't buy watches approaching $2,000. Most people are just fine with a Fossil and it gets looks for them even. I dont agree, for some people 2000$ is a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 I tend to base my love of a watch on it's technical merits weighted against value... An example might be Glassutte watches. There are a few names associated with the region, most were part of the same conglomerate during the cold war years, now they are separate entities once again... One of the defining characteristics of a Glassutte watch is the 3/4 plate. It may not be much to look at for some, as it obscures most of the movement so that parts aren't readily visible, but perfectly lining up all the little parts to mate properly with the place at once takes incredible care and skill. Now, if I can buy a watch for a few hundred bucks, that is a genuine Glassutte, just as 'simply complex' with the same interesting history as any other Glassutte for several thousand, I'm probably going to buy quite a few of the ones for a few hundred bucks, unless I covet a particular movement with complication that is simply unobtainable for for less. That is why I own several GUB's but only a handful of U.G. and only 2 ALS (with only a single ALS being modern). So, to me, "what is a better watch?" is "Which watch offers the best technical merit available for the money?" The SFSO seems to provide technical excellence, more accurate replication than most, and extreme value. Therefore, entirely deserving of the title "Replica of the Year"... The HBB doesn't make my list, Gen or Rep., mainly because it doesn't offer anything of value or technical merit above any other watch out there, other than it's modernistic DERIVATIVE styling.. yeah, there are lot's of parts to the case, making it pretty complicated, but the case still looks like an AP ROO, which looks like a Rolex Viceroy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corgi Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 It is a great rep. But it is a rep of a watch you can buy for under $2,000. IMHO, you might as well save up the money and get a warranty, proper lume, etc. It's a good thing I can't press the "agree" button more than once... because I would be pounding at it all day in response to your post. You said it friend. Reps of watches $2,000 are just useless, especially considering none are perfect and all have some flaw (either in terms of design or quality of assembly.) For that kind of money you can get the real thing and pass it down through your family with pride... creating a history and an heirloom in the process. Get a rep of a $15,000+ watch is much, much more fun. That's why I nominate the MBK Nautilus for best rep 2007... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Baron Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 (edited) What do you mean by "Reps of watches $2,000 are useless." How is it useless? If the rep of the $2,000 watch is much higher quality/accurate than a rep of a $10,000 then what good does that crappy rep of the expensive gen do you? Also, what do you mean by "For the price of a rep of a $2,000 you can buy the real thing." You can?? All of this does come down to, however, your personal taste, which there cannot be an argument over, b/c taste is taste. Therefore, if you like the not as high quality, not as accurate, rep of the $10,000 watch then I'm happy for you and its all fun. Get whatever watch you want, thats the point of different ones. However, regardless of its gen's value, some reps will simply get "watch of the year" based on their stand-alone quality and accuracy. Anyways, that said, based on the SOSF's build quality and accuracy to the gen, it def. deserves rep of the year, even if its "only" based on a $2,000 rep (which aint a cheap watch for most people, even those who love quality watches!) It's a good thing I can't press the "agree" button more than once... because I would be pounding at it all day in response to your post. You said it friend. Reps of watches $2,000 are just useless, especially considering none are perfect and all have some flaw (either in terms of design or quality of assembly.) For that kind of money you can get the real thing and pass it down through your family with pride... creating a history and an heirloom in the process. Get a rep of a $15,000+ watch is much, much more fun. That's why I nominate the MBK Nautilus for best rep 2007... Edited December 23, 2007 by The Red Baron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Someone tell me that the hev valve on the rep works. If it doesn't... . I would expect any rep of the year to at least have the same functionality. :smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyster Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Someone tell me that the hev valve on the rep works. If it doesn't... . I would expect any rep of the year to at least have the same functionality. :smile: Honestly, how often is that going to matter? For me the Big Bang is just too expencive to be a rep, I would rather put the cash towards a genuine. At rep money, the steelfish is an very good buy, easily one of the best of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Honestly, how often is that going to matter? For me the Big Bang is just too expencive to be a rep, I would rather put the cash towards a genuine. At rep money, the steelfish is an very good buy, easily one of the best of the year. There's about a $50 price difference. I think the whole ETA movement thing, with regard to the steelfish, got blown out of proportion. Now we're lucky to have ETA movements? I didn't like that marketing angle, personally. Have you owned a HBB? Because I rarely see someone who has owned it say that they were unimpressed, although, you wonder whether that's self-selecting, cause that watch isn't really one you buy if you're "on the fence" with it...but I've handled and worn almost every watch on the list I posted, and the HBB is definitely worthy of consideration at the top. I think the MBK AP ROO I have is without question worthy of consideration, and to disqualify it against any competitor almost requires an explanation, because there are few dimensions along which I don't feel it's superior. It's got the best dial I've seen on a rep. It actually changes colour under different lighting, from blue to grey (no joke!), and if you look at the dial under a loupe, the level of detail is unprecedented in comparison to anything I've seen. The build quality of the case and bracelet is exceptional. The Cousteau gets underrated, the MBK Patek Nautilus gets underrated...geez, if the BlackBird had a decent pearl, that would be a very underrated watch. That asian movement has 35 jewels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Baron Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 It is supposed to work, but I'm not sure anyone has had the chance to test it! Someone tell me that the hev valve on the rep works. If it doesn't... . I would expect any rep of the year to at least have the same functionality. :smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 I got the Asian version of the SFSO Whitedial: and for $168, I think its one of the best rep of the year based on construction and closeness to the Gen, but I vote for the Montblanc Timewalker RG Chrono as the best if price of the gen is the consideration.....It's $16,000+ at Torneau! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Someone has to be the voice of dissent. To fairly judge what is the best replica of 2007, I submit that the person doing the judging has all of the potential watches before him. Does pug have the Assioma by Bvlgari at his disposal? How about the controversial Hublot Ceramic Big Bang? I have seen SFSO replica in person, as a friend purchased it from Trusty. It is a very fine watch indeed, but if you want to talk about the BEST, it is the HBB. I own my, and Pug owns his, but again I submit that he has not had this watch in front of his peepers to judge it. I would be willing to send my example to The Zigmeister, who would be an excellent neutral judge, and let us hear his opinion. Thank you for your submission Pug. I respect your opinion and trust that you will respect another qualified opinion as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted December 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 How about the controversial Hublot Ceramic Big Bang? I am not a fan of the HBB design. Why would I spend a fortune on a replica of a watch I actively dislike? Besides, this is Pugwash's replica of the year, not RWG's replica of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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