Watchmeister Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 It is a very fair point that to give a good relative appraisal you should actually own or have at least spent some time in the watch's presence. But my first cut-off is functional accuracy. Ergo, any watch which has a non-functioing hev valve or is doing the wrong thing in the wrong place cannot be the best - otherwise I would likely go with the first gen MBW Nautilus. Nautilus gets my vote for best case and bracelet finishing (pins of course). So here is my list of candidates I am familiar with in the flesh and what is wrong with them: - Correct version of PO (oops, he valve - :laugh: ) - Correct version of BCE (what happened to those concentric circles?) - 3717 (those over-pronounced '6' and '9' markers just drive me crazy) - CD 2006 (crap, the bezel won't line up and you have to love that sticker) - MBW Nautilus (oops, where did that second hand come from) - MBW AP ROO (oops, sub dials are completely wrong (placement and functionally) and those damn pushers line up in a row) - HBB Mellow Yellow (now why would they write titanium on the back if there is no titanium) Moral of the story - None are perfect. Enjoy what you have. By the way, if you recognize all the criticisms above you are a first level RIS -Rep Idiot Savant. There will be a test next week. :laugh: Here are some questions on the level 2 tests: - PAM 1950 - Identify all four versions of the original 1950's with various improvements along the way. Start with EL version 1. - MBW Rolex (Separate four hour test but we will start with an easy one - critical case differences between pre- and post Kenzo cases). This is thread crapping in its purest form but it is Sunday morning and no one else is up yet. GOD I LOVE THIS HOBBY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arminvanbuuren Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 what's with people complaining about misaligned bezel? so weird!!! i've seen alot misaligned stuff in gens too.. infact my friend's father has a rolex daytona.. and he had the bezel misaligned.. and he bought it for $15000+.. does this mean it's a fake? just because a rep has a misaligned bezel doesn't meant that suddenly its a "tell".. misaligned datewheel is everywhere.. my dad's gold presidential rolex has a misaligned datewheel... NO ONE!! not even an AD or rolex service centre itself ever say "I'M SORRY IT HAS A MISALIGNED DAYWHEEL THEREFORE IT'S A FAKE!!!".. so sorry but i have to agree with pugs on this.. because the reason "the misaligned pearl is the biggest tell!!!" is just not good enough for me.. and we're not talking about the price of the gens are we pug?? when we're picking rep of the year? we're talking about accuracy and build NO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 WIS/RIS rule number one - never live with a misaligned bezel. :laugh: And you are absolutely right that people don't give gens the same level of scrutiny. And for that reason you will find a number of folks on this forum own both and the general watch content better here than on about any purist forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 I would agree the comments about build quality, but cannot give the watch a 'personal thumbs up', as, when I tried one (gen) on, as nice as it was, it just didn't have that "Must by that!" quality. Infact, trying one on actually put me off ordering one... Other than that though, yes, absolutely awesome watch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj69 Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Chief/Kruzer: Guys, for the life of me, I cannot figure out what you're talking about with respect to the hour markers on the 3717 dial. I'm wearing mine right now and comparing it to some high res photos of the gen. (You can find some great high res gen photos on the Japanese "Joyful Collection" site). If anything, the 6 and 9 markers on the rep might be a bit UNDER-pronounced compared to the gen, but that could well be the lighting in the photos. Are you taking into account the fact that IWC outsources dials and other parts, so there have been variations in appearance. We've already seen this with the gen Ingy hands and the white GST dial. - 3717 (those over-pronounced '6' and '9' markers just drive me crazy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj69 Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Hasn't the MBW Nautilus been available for years? Perhaps a rep of the year, but no necessarily this year. BTW, the gen 3700 was available with a seconds hand. - MBW Nautilus (oops, where did that second hand come from) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 jj69- I thought it was fairly well documented that the 3700 (SS Jumbo) that the reps were modeled after did not come with a second hand. I have only seen a couple of gens in the flesh (ss and gold) and they did not. If you can find a pic of a 3700 with a second hand I would love to see it. I was about to dump the second hand and replace the cannon pinion. It would be a lot easier to just leave it alone. Otherwise that watch is fabulous. And you are absolutely right the better first generation MBW 3700 was in fact from last year. But it is new to me this year. For those who are interested here is an interesting article on the Nautilus and its subsequent developments a couple of years ago: http://www.uhren-schmuck.de/aktuelles/mark...collection.html On the 3717 just take a good look at the "9" and "12" markers. They are way too "fat" (i.e. sit too far off the dial) and because of the additional height the side profile of themarkers is somewhat off and much more noticeable - at 10x of course. :laugh: I have never found a picture to make the comparison. But once I own a watch I can never resist walking the 2 blocks to the AD. Actually, I try and do that before I ever buy it in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Wow and i thought it was going to be a mellow sunday... the SOSF would get my "vote" for "best rep out of the box" but "rep of the year' is subjective to everyones own preference.. but i would lean towards this rep definately no matter the cost of the genuine.. that should not come into play at all IMHO.. and the concentric rings in the BCE .. there is a difference in the stick dial and the numeral dial.. the replicated versions are spot on to the genuine.. as far as the research i've done and posted findings on.... the stick dial has subtle rings on the dial and not the subs and the numeral dial has very pronounce rings in the subs but not the rest of the dial Can't wait to see what 2008 will bring... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Hey R- Keep your fingers crossed for that revised Mille Chrono XL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Baron Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Agreed. I'm excited about 2008! Wow and i thought it was going to be a mellow sunday... the SOSF would get my "vote" for "best rep out of the box" but "rep of the year' is subjective to everyones own preference.. but i would lean towards this rep definately no matter the cost of the genuine.. that should not come into play at all IMHO.. and the concentric rings in the BCE .. there is a difference in the stick dial and the numeral dial.. the replicated versions are spot on to the genuine.. as far as the research i've done and posted findings on.... the stick dial has subtle rings on the dial and not the subs and the numeral dial has very pronounce rings in the subs but not the rest of the dial Can't wait to see what 2008 will bring... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Hey R- Keep your fingers crossed for that revised Mille Chrono XL. YES W.. my collector has given a heads up on this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookycord Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 If cost vs gen percentage was taken into consideration then my Cartier Tortue would take the cake. $160,000 gen vs $100 rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj69 Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 I thought it was fairly well documented that the 3700 (SS Jumbo) that the reps were modeled after did not come with a second hand. There is a long thread about it on another forum. Apparently, the 3700 could be special ordered with a seconds hand. On the 3717 just take a good look at the "9" and "12" markers. They are way too "fat" (i.e. sit too far off the dial) and because of the additional height the side profile of themarkers is somewhat off and much more noticeable - at 10x of course. :laugh: I have never found a picture to make the comparison. But once I own a watch I can never resist walking the 2 blocks to the AD. Actually, I try and do that before I ever buy it in the first place. I'm sorry, Kruzer, I'm just not seeing it. When you say "fat" do you mean "thick"? As in, raised hour markers? I'm holding my rep now. The 3, 6, 9 and 12 hour markers are all raized markers. They're applied markers (rather than just being painted on the dial like all the other markings). Below is a high res pic of a gen from the Joyful Collection site. As you can see in the pic, those four markers are also raised, applied markers. Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 If cost vs gen percentage was taken into consideration then my Cartier Tortue would take the cake. $160,000 gen vs $100 rep. Only if cost percentage were the only consideration would the Cartier take the cake. Look at it this way: how many people were waiting with bated breath for the release of the SFSO rep? I didn't see a swell of anticipation, and in fact it just seemed like the SFSO became popular after the fact when word got out that it was a good rep. Perhaps even the "super rep" marketing caught hold and sucked more than a few in. And all that's fine, but if a great rep ultimately has that "so what" factor then should it really be ROY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 JJ- No you are not missing anything. Both the rep and the gen have the applied markers. But when I walked into the AD and had him pull out the 3717 my impression (and of course it is only my opinion) is that the markers on the rep look much more pasted on and appear to be more raised and not properly rounded off. And then when you go to upgrade the lume to gen spec it only further raises the markers. As I say this I am being picky and still consider the 3717 to be one of the 2 or 3 best reps in 2007. The minute I received it and walked it over for comparison purposes I felt it was so good that it was worthwhile swapping the movement, changing the datewheels and reluming. I am planning on keeping mine for a lifetime. So enjoy it and wear it well. :smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryaku Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Kruzer your impression is right, i have compared replica and genuine and i can confirm: markers in replica are too thick and raised. It's still one of the best and most accurate replica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj69 Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 JJ- No you are not missing anything. Both the rep and the gen have the applied markers. But when I walked into the AD and had him pull out the 3717 my impression (and of course it is only my opinion) is that the markers on the rep look much more pasted on and appear to be more raised and not properly rounded off. And then when you go to upgrade the lume to gen spec it only further raises the markers. As I say this I am being picky and still consider the 3717 to be one of the 2 or 3 best reps in 2007. The minute I received it and walked it over for comparison purposes I felt it was so good that it was worthwhile swapping the movement, changing the datewheels and reluming. I am planning on keeping mine for a lifetime. So enjoy it and wear it well. :smile: It must be something that can only be seen in person. If it really bothered me, I would just get a gen dial. Most IWC dials start popping up all over the place once a model is a year or two old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 JJ- No you are not missing anything. Both the rep and the gen have the applied markers. But when I walked into the AD and had him pull out the 3717 my impression (and of course it is only my opinion) is that the markers on the rep look much more pasted on and appear to be more raised and not properly rounded off. And then when you go to upgrade the lume to gen spec it only further raises the markers. As I say this I am being picky and still consider the 3717 to be one of the 2 or 3 best reps in 2007. The minute I received it and walked it over for comparison purposes I felt it was so good that it was worthwhile swapping the movement, changing the datewheels and reluming. I am planning on keeping mine for a lifetime. So enjoy it and wear it well. :smile: You are dead on in the observation that the markers "are pasted on" after recieving my 3717 the 3 and 6 markers popped off the dial exposing an indent in the dial and protruding fit to the indent on the makers underside.. it is pasted and snapped on i guess.. my collector took care of the problem.. and although i read your post as just an observation i as u still love this replication Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 To me, that's one of the reasons this watch is such a good replica. It acts like the real one as much as looks like it. It's as waterproof (in real terms) and as reliable. It does the same jobs to the same standards, or at least closer than any other replica watch manages. I agree...this is as close as any rep comes to having intrinsic quality built in. The driving force behind the replica industry in China is visual reproduction fidelity. Reproducing movement details when they can't be seen is a major step in the direction we as crazy rep collectors love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 So the next natural question is how good the dial on the 3717 variations are which had actual bezeled numbers rather than markers (St. Et.. and new Laureus versions are what I am thinking of) and do they have correct casebacks which don't read as "1 of ___" (my pet peeve). I would rather have no serial number. And a Merry Xmas to all. I must add that I had a fabulous Christmas eve where in addition to the usual family things I was fortunate enough to have lunch with a couple of old school RWG'ers - one of whom was in from the EU. Can you think of a better lunch than Pizza at home with dozens of watches - both rep and gen. And the "gifts' that were exchanged were better than one could ever imagine. :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cableguy Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 i REALLY REALLY wish I bought a White face instead of the Blue face =( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith_bran Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 There's no doubt in my mind that the SFSO is an awesome watch, rep or not. The only thing I dislike about it is the markers - the lume looks like it was applied by a drunk blind guy. K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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