sssurfer Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 I recently got a Daytona, 2001 model, from Tony. I am posting this mini review essentially because of the interest that this watch raised in some fellow members, freddy333 among them. Freddy was especially interested about the movement, so there are plenty of pics of the movement. Also, all the pics are in very high resolution to show the even tiniest details. Sorry, no crown / caseback / bracelet / clasp / wrist pics so far. I hope to have time to add them sooner or later. This is just a quick mini review. (ok, I know, not so quick on downloading the pics... ) What got me to buy this model from Tony rather than the similar model from, e.g., Josh? Because of two reasons: 1. Price: 199 USD, s/h included (a weekly special sale). 2. The even remote chance to get a Swiss 7750 inside (as it was advertised). On those two reasons I decided to even pass over a less accurate dial than Josh's. On its arrival the watch was ok, running and with all the chrono functions properly working. It showed two minor issues though: 1. Hands not perfectly synchronized. An easy fix. 2. The crown spring was not perfectly working, so that the stem behaved like if it was too short. It was impossible to set the crown in the manual wind position, the crown was either going to the set time position, or engaging back into the threads. My watchsmith got it fixed by simply oiling the spring. I cannot tell about the watch precision yet, I have to wear it more. Here is the dial: As you can see it is decent but not 100%. The (mis)aligment of the pins is ok. The size, placement and crispness of the subdials, ok as well. Placement, shape and crispness of the logo, as well as placement of the text -- at par with other good reps. But the printing and crispness of the text are less than perfect. And the indices looks a little "fatty". The thickness of the case is relevant: 14.6mm crystal included. I would say without the crystal it is 13.8mm or so. This puts this case to a lower level than Joshua's, advertised as 13.5mm thick. About the movement now. My watchsmith excluded it is Swiss. He qualified it as a good Asian 7750, 28,800 bph and better refined that previous similar movements that he happened to check. I suppose it may be one of the latest Asian 7750 that The Zigmeister reviewed positively, but please expert chime in and tell us. Here are the pics: Thanks for looking, sss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 Thanks for the info! Looks like the older slow beat 7750 to me, not the new high beat version... In another thread a member posted that the version you linked to here: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...40&start=40 With the silly rotor decoration, had the thinner case, which is more accurate than the fat case version. It would seem then, that Tony is no longer shipping out that thinner version, if this is what you received. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 I agree with Mickey -- looks like (contrary to his advertised disclaimer) the watch he is shipping is in fact NOT the same watch he has pictured on his website (I am used to seeing scammers who use pics of gens on their website, but this is the 1st time I have seen someone hawking pics of out-of-production reps). The movement in your pictures looks like the 2nd version (the thin case contained the 1st version). The other indicator of the thin case version is the location of the subdials & the (incorrect) pointed 'A' in DAYTONA on the dial. Unfortunately, the hands in your picture are covering too much of the DAYTONA to see the 'A'. Can you post another pic of the dial? Then I can be sure. But from what I can see, the watch you received is the 2nd version, which has pretty much all of the sins of the other versions with none of their virtues. Were it me, I would refer the seller to his guarantee of picture accuracy & request either he exchange your watch for the correct watch or issue you a full refund. If he cannot supply the correct watch, I would get Josh's version, which, although fitted with the thick case, has an almost perfect dial & the new movement with the correct rotor. Having the proper case is icing on the cake to be sure, but the dial is usually what most people gauge a watch's quality by. I recently passed-up an opportunity to purchase a gen dial (for a very reasonable price) because Josh's is so close that it makes the gen seem redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioarmani Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 Where's the link to the site's listing where you purchased it? Sorry--not familiar with Tony. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted February 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Mickey, Freddy, really thanks for your advice. I am going to contact Tony and see what comes out of this. I am also going to resubmit the watch to my watchsmith and ask him confirmation about the movement beat. Just, I am completely scared at thinking to send the watch back to Tommy. It would be the third watch I have to send back in a row, and I never got anything good from sending a watch back to China (see my Lvmonia report). @gioarmani: if you are considering to buy this watch from Tony, I would sell it to you at less price than what I paid. I would avoid sending it back to China, and you would get a watch already tested and fixed, like brand new (I wore it just two hours). If you are interested, please PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Most likely to be a low beat Asian 7750. You can see it from the finishing of the mainplate, shape of regulator, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioarmani Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Mickey, Freddy, really thanks for your advice. I am going to contact Tony and see what comes out of this. I am also going to resubmit the watch to my watchsmith and ask him confirmation about the movement beat. Just, I am completely scared at thinking to send the watch back to Tommy. It would be the third watch I have to send back in a row, and I never got anything good from sending a watch back to China (see my Lvmonia report). @gioarmani: if you are considering to buy this watch from Tony, I would sell it to you at less price than what I paid. I would avoid sending it back to China, and you would get a watch already tested and fixed, like brand new (I wore it just two hours). If you are interested, please PM me. No, I just wanted to know which site Tony deals for because I'm unfamiliar with it. (i.e., trustytime=Andrew, perfectclones=Josh, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Where's the link to the site's listing where you purchased it? Sorry--not familiar with Tony. Thanks. His site is here: http://www.watch-ebay.net/ Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllergyDoc Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Yeah, Tony's gone from being a good dealer to setting up a web site that looks about the same as all the other "scam" sites. He advertises "Swiss" Daytonas and "Swiss" SOSF that end up being Asian level (I know because I bought one.) Sad, really. I bought about 14 watches off him on iOffer and he used to be very straight forward. I believe he has set up his site like that for the bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Yeah, Tony's gone from being a good dealer to setting up a web site that looks about the same as all the other "scam" sites. He advertises "Swiss" Daytonas and "Swiss" SOSF that end up being Asian level (I know because I bought one.) Sad, really. I bought about 14 watches off him on iOffer and he used to be very straight forward. I believe he has set up his site like that for the bucks. A heady opinion, but since you're a very well-known, seasoned member, this makes me sit up and notice, AD. See, TeeJay? This is what I fear. I'm pretty sure he takes care of his older, repeat customers, but I have a funny sensation he doesn't with the newer ones. I got rid of Paul, because of these lemon problems, and so far, I would only return to Jay, who has similar QC issues (like those who have dealt with Tony, that's because there's an established relationship). ...although Sssurfer is apparently an older, repeat customer -- having to send 3 bad watches in a row, well, not good. Sssurfer, thank you so much for this review! I am still in your debt, for which I cannot apologise enough. More hopefully soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted February 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 ...although Sssurfer is apparently an older, repeat customer -- having to send 3 bad watches in a row, well, not good. I have to avoid misunderstandings vs Tony: those three watches were from three different dealers (Lvmonia, Tony, and another dealer that I am not going to disclose right now). All them not "our" established collectors, not of "the cartel"... Sssurfer, thank you so much for this review! I am still in your debt, for which I cannot apologise enough. More hopefully soon. Take it easy, Vicky, no debts on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioarmani Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 His site is here: http://www.watch-ebay.net/ Cheers! Oh--that site. Never new the name of the dealer associated with that one. Avoiding that schmuck like the plague--he's become overly corrupted in his listings & is a bestswiss.com in the making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioarmani Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Out of curiosity though--to ssurfer--do you have any shots of this piece from the side? That would determine if I would buy it. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Sad to see a dealer who seemed right going the wrong way... Deleting him from my bookmarks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannou Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Sad to see a dealer who seemed right going the wrong way... Deleting him from my bookmarks. Yes...sad...when you see a B&R 03-94 Swiss Quartz at 399$...ouah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Sure. He used to have competitive prices on CQout. However, the prices on his websites are much too high, although I understood they can be negociated anytime. But again, the evidences of a change in his business way are not putting me into confidence anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted February 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 UPDATE Freddy, Mickey, Takashi, you were correct in your opinion: the movement is 21,600 bph. My watchsmith negated he ever told it was 28,800, he affirmed he just told that this movement should be able to drive the additional wheels required by the secs @6 as it is unusually high in its amplitude beat. He said it is 340-350 (I don't even know what, maybe degrees?) in the best position, i.e. horizontally placed face up, and 240-250 in its worst position, i.e. vertically placed crown side down. On this occasion he explained that the ability to drive the additional wheels is not related to the beat rate (he said that a 21,600 bph movement might work even better than a 28,800), rather it is related to the beat amplitude. On the first occasion that I submitted him the watch, I asked him to tell if the movement was 21,600 or 28,800 bph as I was concerned it might not properly drive the secs @6. So maybe I misunderstood his answer, that I am now honestly unable to recall precisely, by taking a "yes, it should drive them" as a "yes, it is 28,800". So, please experts, I have two new questions for you: 1 - Does it make sense what the watchsmith told me? I mean, do you think true that a 21,600 movement may work even better than a 28,800 movement in powering the additional wheels, provided its beat amplitude is pretty high? 2 - Do you think that a 240/250 - 340/350 beat amplitude is high enough to properly drive the small secs @6? I am asking this as I have to decide on whether sending the watch back to Tommy or what. @Freddy: you were also correct on your guess about the "DAYTONA" text on the dial. The "A"s are not pointed. ---- Also, here are a few other pics: On gioarmani's request, a side shot: Bracelet: Clasp: Back of the clasp (quite unuseful, I suspect): Thanks, sss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javiers Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Hello, Im new in this amazing forum, and then thank you sssurfer for your great review now Im going to post pitwo pics of a gen to comapre with the sssurfer Daytona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javiers Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 I think that the clasp of sssurfers model is more accurate than the perfect clones clasp, Experts I need your opinion !! Thanks !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted February 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Wow, a gen Daytona owner, and posting on a thread of mine as his first post! Thanks, javier, very appreciated -- and welcome to the forum! On your pics I would say: 1. My crown is decent. 2. My case is thick (as expected). 3. I need to take a better pic at my clasp back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 1 - Does it make sense what the watchsmith told me? I mean, do you think true that a 21,600 movement may work even better than a 28,800 movement in powering the additional wheels, provided its beat amplitude is pretty high? 2 - Do you think that a 240/250 - 340/350 beat amplitude is high enough to properly drive the small secs @6? I am asking this as I have to decide on whether sending the watch back to Tommy or what. @Freddy: you were also correct on your guess about the "DAYTONA" text on the dial. The "A"s are not pointed. Firstly, I would return the watch because it is NOT the watch pictured on his site. The watch you received, as I mentioned previously, has all of the sins of the other 2 versions (the original version that has the correctly proportioned case like I have & like he has pictured on his website & the current version that some of our collectors sell that has the near-perfect dial and thick case) without any of their merits. Answer to question 1 -- Technically, a slower-beating movement may last longer because it is generating less friction & wear than the same design running at a higher beat. The differences in wear are small, but they could have some effect on longevity when the movement is constantly under strain by the extra gearing. Ziggy would be better to answer that though. Answer to question 2 -- The beat amplitude (dial up) of my nearly 4 year old (21.6bph) secs at 6 Daytona runs around 193. The (28.8bph) 2nd version secs at 6 Daytona measures around 273. The (28.8bph) watch I recently got from Josh (the 3rd & current version secs at 6 Daytona) runs around 310. These 3rd version 7750s are the ones that most RWG members own & which most often die, so it would be hard to make the case for high amplitude, by itself, accounting for longer longevity in these secs at 6 7750s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Wow, a gen Daytona owner, and posting on a thread of mine as his first post! On your pics I would say: 1. My crown is decent. 2. My case is thick (as expected). 3. I need to take a better pic at my clasp back. I do not believe Javier owns that watch. The pictures come from another gen website (he sent me the link separately). Your crown is decent, but not correct. I replaced mine (along with the tube & pushers) with gen parts. Your clasp looks good on the outside, but some of the printing on the inner polished section is partially wrong. Each of the 3 versions of secs at 6 Daytonas has something different wrong with the printing on the polished section of the clasp. And, of course, all 1165xx Daytona reps have the wrong caseback. It should look like this (picture taken from the site Javier sent me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 I'm constantly astounded by Freddy's Daytona knowledge, aren't you? Freddy, you're going to have to tell the story one day -- of just when and where you got interested in the fabled Daytona. I suspect it's a most interesting story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted February 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Plenty of great people looking at this thread now. Thanks Freddy for your insight. This watch is going to go back to Tony, unless gioarmani is very interested on it. And I think I am going to go back to my Panerai niche -- this sortie was not very appointing, IMO. Anyway, here is a better pic of my clasp back: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Anyway, here is a better pic of my clasp back: Compare to gen God is in the details. --Ludwig Mies van der Rohe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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