Guest porsche356a Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 1a for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellomen Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Correct solid caseback (existing rep B series is OK but A series would be better) A series would be better indeed... i have a B series caseback and it's quite high in the numbers... in that period B series PAM1 where made with L dials... not T dials... they changed from T to L some where during the B period. So low B series is good and all A series. I personally prefer A series of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Chief Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 GREAT IDEA! Count me in for a 2A, if it is possible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted February 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 A series would be better indeed... i have a B series caseback and it's quite high in the numbers... in that period B series PAM1 where made with L dials... not T dials... they changed from T to L some where during the B period. So low B series is good and all A series. I personally prefer A series of course There was an article recently on the subject of B series T dials and there appears to be no pattern of the T dial = low MM numbers and L = high as you would expect. They were all mixed up throughout the B series and even T-SWISS-T appeared in a few B series but not in the A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztech Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Since it looks like we definitely have enough interest, can a vetern member of the forum create a new thread just for this so people can sign up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye_lin Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Hi.. Here is my 1BT.. poor pic.. sorry.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 This is a Super idea, I'm in for one. This looks li a very rewarding project (dial and cae back). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Does Davidsen really have a properly numbered 02D caseback (Dxxx/1200) or 02B (Bxxx/1500). Bases were usually half the annual amount of 01's. I don't know if this helps but here is an 03-T and Base-L: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sattop Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Yup... DSN has the OP 6520 Dxxxx/1200 on the D series Just need a proper base dial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Thanks for the info. You are facilitating a 2008 project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbell6 Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 No one has mentioned cost yet, and since this thing hasn't really gotten off the ground, it may be a bit premature. However, just wondering if anyone has a ballpark idea as to cost per dial? I think this may help guage interest more accurately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanro Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 If indeed we can commission a rep PAM that you can confidently wear anywhere, I'm definitely in! I guess the next step is to 1.) find a trustworthy dealer who'll get the ball rolling 2.) get a list of those interested and collect the deposits. So I'll start the list here.... Those who are interested in putting a 50% deposit for a PAM 001 T dial 1. Ztech 2. PAMman 6+ 3. Sanro 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. Please repost and add your name. You all know what to do. DISCLAIMER! Once you decide to get on the list and put down your deposit, there is no turning back. If you do, you loose your deposit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztech Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 No one has mentioned cost yet, and since this thing hasn't really gotten off the ground, it may be a bit premature. However, just wondering if anyone has a ballpark idea as to cost per dial? I think this may help guage interest more accurately. That's a very good question bbell6. I guess we sort of can't figure that out till we have some sort of committed interest and get a dealer on board, but I think I'd be willing to pay upwards of $150 per dial instead of wasting that much on other reps that have faulty dials/part/etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbell6 Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 That's a very good question bbell6. I guess we sort of can't figure that out till we have some sort of committed interest and get a dealer on board, but I think I'd be willing to pay upwards of $150 per dial instead of wasting that much on other reps that have faulty dials/part/etc. I assume a limited run dial (100 pieces) will obviously cost more than a regular rep dial. However, never having bought a regular rep dial, I don't even know what they cost. I agree that I don't mind spending more for quality. I was just looking for a ballpark figure so I would know how many of these dials I could afford to purchase. Maybe someone with experience with one of these types of projects could help me ballpark the cost. Are we talking: 1) Under $100 2) Between $100 - $200 3) More than $200 If there are still too many variables, I understand. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 How can you ever get a 100% accurate Tritium paint dial? Surely it'll only be fairly accurate as the lume would be a give-away. If it's not self-powered and diminished in the right amount for the age and Tritium's 12-year half-life, it's never going to pass scrutineering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted March 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) How can you ever get a 100% accurate Tritium paint dial? Surely it'll only be fairly accurate as the lume would be a give-away. If it's not self-powered and diminished in the right amount for the age and Tritium's 12-year half-life, it's never going to pass scrutineering. OK, OK, I thought I was anal. The aim here is to create a dial (and consequently complete watches) which WE are happy to live with, not to pass them off or resell them as genuine. I have a genuine tritium dial Panerai and an unused 003 T dial. Both of them have still some self-generating 'light' in them. In other words, if I open my watch box, in a dark room, for the first time in a week or more, the T dial will glow faintly and my gen 005 can't be seen. However, if I expose both watches to 30 secs of intense light the 005 glows like a mad thing for a couple of minutes then calms down and will remain visible all night. On the other hand the T dial will be much brighter initially and gradually tail off to its normal faint glow. I accept that without tritium we cannot totally replicate the lume performance of a T dial and there are few alternatives. One would be to match the patinated tritium colour in Luminova which naturally reduces the Luminova performance anyway and have a decent lume standard. A second option would be to just match the patinated tritium colour in regular paint which will not be true to an A series T dial today (2001) but will probably be fairly accurate in another 5 years time. The third option would be to match the tritium colour in a luminous material similar to the normal reps, which will be poor to start with, but in another 5 years time will likely end up in a similar place as a genuine T dial i.e. dead. On a personal level I would be happy with any of the above solutions, providing the dial print & finish quality, together with accuracy of font and layout matched the A series dials. Given this choice of lume methods I would personally go for the third option which would have the correct appearance during daylight and would give some level of luminosity. I fully accept that the dial would not be accepted as a genuine tritium dial by someone who kept the watch in the dark for 24 hours to test it, but when are we ever going to allow any casual acquaintance to hang onto our watch for that long? I also take comfort from the thought that if I want to scam someone I will have 24 hours to escape before he finds out. Edited March 3, 2008 by PAMman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 The third option would be to match the tritium colour in a luminous material similar to the normal reps, which will be poor to start with, but in another 5 years time will likely end up in a similar place as a genuine T dial i.e. dead. That's the best, easiest and cheapest solution. The same kind of lume the B&R watches have. But you have to be careful because you don't want to end up with a canary yellow like that: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wan Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 I agree!!!!!!! I had to go to Mark (finepics) to get my perfect T-dial and it was not cheap. I had Mark build me a spot on perfect pam40 rep, it has all the mods needed to be the best rep in my collection. If someone can somehow get Mark's opinion on this, im sure he would be of great help to this project. "if anyone takes it on" and i really hope someone does....... Also, if intrested.......I will be posting the pam40 for sale here on the forum soon....so, heads up Cheers, Wan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted March 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) I assume a limited run dial (100 pieces) will obviously cost more than a regular rep dial. However, never having bought a regular rep dial, I don't even know what they cost. I agree that I don't mind spending more for quality. I was just looking for a ballpark figure so I would know how many of these dials I could afford to purchase. Maybe someone with experience with one of these types of projects could help me ballpark the cost. Are we talking: 1) Under $100 2) Between $100 - $200 3) More than $200 If there are still too many variables, I understand. Thanks There are too many variables to be confident of price at this stage and is largely dependent on how many we can use / sell to members. My enquiries with one of our dealers, who wasn't interested in getting involved anyway, was that a dial maker normally produces a minimum run of 100 dials and wouldn't be interested in anything smaller. However, it would seem that 100 dials would be considered 'normal' and shouldn't really carry any excess surcharge based on quantity. For what it's worth I have been able to buy a couple of regular painted 111 dials for $20 each plus shipping etc. It's very difficult to equate this cost to 'our' project as it will require initial setting-up costs and samples / corrections / more samples / more corrections etc which will all have to be paid for in the final run. One of the problems would obviously be that as soon as I took delivery of 100 dials to pass on to forum members all of our dealers may also be offering watches complete with 'our' dial at no additional cost. In that senario I would be left with a batch of dials that few people would want any more. I have also discussed this project with an EU based dial maker who, at this stage, seems surprisingly unconcerned about producing a rep dial and while I would feel more confident about my own involvement in the setting-up and quality control process, because of accessibility etc, I have some concerns about overall quality levels. However the whole communication and cost issue would be more transparent this way and 'our' dial would not be available outside of 'our' network. It's too soon to even know with any confidence what 100 dials would cost and the individual cost per dial to each of us would have to be the total project cost divided by the number sold - sell only 50 dials and each will cost twice as much - sell only 25 = 4X etc. So, to answer the question, I really don't know how the cost would end up, but being realistic probably in the $100 - 150 region when everything is taken into account. This is not something I am suggesting from any angle of making a profit. In fact it isn't something I want to do at all. You may have read my responses to Davidsen's thread on his 5218/201A dial and I would far rather that he would take on board all of the input that was offered and for him to produce totally accurate dials. I feel somewhat aggrieved by all those who kept posting encouraging remarks on his thread, telling him that his dial was great when it was still far from perfect. Obviously as soon as he was getting plenty of favourable comments he didn't feel any need to go further despite the fact that he is best placed to get these totally right. Please compare the feedback that Davidsen got to the 5218/201A dail and the feedback on the Cousteau Diver dial. In the case of the Cousteau , which is much more complicated, the feedback was brutally critical and we have ended up with something good. Davidsen gets plenty of thanks and praise for churning out even more inaccurate tat when we could be brutally honest and get an improvement. At the end of the day the most accurate handwind Panerai dial is still the regular painted 002 / 112 and I think it may even be out of production now. Edited March 3, 2008 by PAMman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbell6 Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 @ PAMman - I understand exactly what your saying about the cost, I just wanted ballpark or best guess at this time. Having worked for a label printing company, I realize that design, start up and waste can be a large portion of the cost of a short run. I also understand that things change and nothing is guaranteed. However, I think it is beneficial to have a guide. Working in Finance/Accounting I know that a lot of ideas get thrown out and then when I get involved and tell people what something is going to cost, they reconsider. I also understand what you are saying about the 5128/201A project. I followed that post with a lot of interest. Some people praising the effort and success while others were trying to offer constuctive criticism. Unfortunately it sounds like the praise won out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmcsherry Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 The cost is in the setup - if you photochemically etch the dial, you're looking at maybe $200-300 for the screen. Then the pad printing tooling, maybe the same again. From here, it really is dependant on the company, the material cost is next to nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swdivad Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 I'm in for a 1A definitely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted March 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 We NEED a dealer / collector who is willing to act as a conduit with the factory. ANYONE??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 OK, OK, I thought I was anal. The aim here is to create a dial (and consequently complete watches) which WE are happy to live with, not to pass them off or resell them as genuine. Ok, so your 100% accurate is only really 99% accurate. You may want to clarify this in the thread title. Don't use the term 100% accurate unless you mean it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbell6 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 We NEED a dealer / collector who is willing to act as a conduit with the factory. ANYONE??? I don't suppose we have found a dealer yet? Is this thing dead in the water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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