doc savage Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Firstly, are the eskimos there because they want to preserve tradition or they're forced to live there? You have brought up a group, which PROBABLY might die if they don't consume meat, however what about the large majority of the human population who are not in this situation. Humans are NOT natural hunters. Do you see any people hunting deer by chasing one, and killing it using its bare hands (or teeth)? A lion could do that with relative ease, because it is DESIGNED to do so. We have to use guns, spears, darts or whatever to do kill them. I will concede that point if you can point out a single civilization, village, heck even a lone crazy person that does not use any "unnatural" tools to survive. Without our tools we humans are pretty much defenseless, so I think it's pretty natural of us to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 The genocides perpetrated by Shaka Zulu make Hitler's little European sojourn look like a Sunday school outing by comparison but few in the 'educated' world would know. Sometimes I totally agree with you, despite your gentleman brawler tone, Narikaa. But allow a HUGE DISAGREE here. Not only is this factually incorrect, it's also incorrect at some deeper level. In Russia alone, millions of people were slaughtered by Ivan the Terrible. Millions died in the marshes trying to build St. Petersburg, at the behest of Peter the Great. An estimated 10-20 million peasants died in the first Collectivisation of Russia by the Communists in the 1920s. That's not even counting the horror stories of Stalin, which came later. NONE of this can compare to the industrialised killing of Hitler and his henchmen. It was so evil, it was almost brilliant in its organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnagy Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 as the world population grows,so will the amount of evil done in it.but,out of this evil true love can be displayed.without one you cannot have the other,so all is not doom and gloom.rarely do you see any GOOD news published.only the bad news seems to be worthy of mainstream coverage.one has to look elsewhere to see the good done in the world.man,did i say that mushy stuff?doc savage is correct in saying humans are utterly defenseless now.not a single person i know could survive a month in the wild without a gun.we are totally reliant on technology for our survival.humans never change, only technology changes.at least in modernized countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 ...doc savage is correct in saying humans are utterly defenseless now.not a single person i know could survive a month in the wild without a gun.we are totally reliant on technology for our survival.humans never change, only technology changes.at least in modernized countries. Yep, mere survival can be a bi..ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSlayer Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 I will concede that point if you can point out a single civilization, village, heck even a lone crazy person that does not use any "unnatural" tools to survive. Without our tools we humans are pretty much defenseless, so I think it's pretty natural of us to use them. I was merely pointing out, that we as humans are not 'built for the kill' so to speak as the natural carnivore predators in the wild are. We have to resort to weapons to kill deer, antelope, cows and other animals. A lion or a tiger on the other hand hunts these using its teeth, claws, speed, agility, muscular strength and so on. Now, if an animal was coming to attack me, with intent to kill or severly injure me, then of course I won't be foolish enough to allow it to do that. I would defend myself in any way I can, so guns and knives would have to be used in this kind of situation. Humans can certainly survive without meat, I know many who do so, and for millenia humans have been surviving without the need to kill animals and eat them. God has given us the ability to grow our own food, a lion and a tiger can't. So they have designed to hunt and kill other animals for food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnagy Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 correct again,demon slayer.it is a matter of what you WANT to eat,not what you have to eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Humans can certainly survive without meat, I know many who do so, and for millenia humans have been surviving without the need to kill animals and eat them. God has given us the ability to grow our own food, a lion and a tiger can't. So they have designed to hunt and kill other animals for food. Humans can survive without meat, yes. But why is it then, that so many crave it? In fact, the majority do. If God, evolution, whatever had made it so that we were meant to be herbivores without the strength of beasts, then He should've created a being without the ability to make weapons to kill said beasts. This ain't no Planet of the Apes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narikaa Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 I saw a documentary while out East about affluent Chinese sporting decorated poodles http://www.jamd.com/image/g/78170772 Nouvelle cuisine ? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 :lol: FACT: During the Prussian siege of Paris in 1870-1 (and subsequent Commune), no foodstuffs could come in and out of Paris as the Gerries surrounded the city pitilessly. So the Parisians turned to...their pets, for survival. Rats, mice, pigeons always a fave, of course (sorry Ryannon). But in the Black Market, the most sought-after meat, apparently because it was the tastiest, was...poodle. Christ, the things I know with my History degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narikaa Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 :lol: FACT: During the Prussian siege of Paris in 1870-1 (and subsequent Commune), no foodstuffs could come in and out of Paris as the Gerries surrounded the city pitilessly. So the Parisians turned to...their pets, for survival. Rats, mice, pigeons always a fave, of course (sorry Ryannon). But in the Black Market, the most sought-after meat, apparently because it was the tastiest, was...poodle. Christ, the things I know with my History degree. Ahh the gastronomes across the channel I remember an hysterical one liner from an otherwise unremarkable lecture on the battle of Agincourt........ The spontaneous cavalry charge by the French knights having been funnelled by the terrain into the massed volleys from English archers, was decimated and much of its horses turned, with or without riders, into their following infantry..... the priceless comment was...... "Which caused no initial surprise to the rank & file, who merely thought it was their lunch repeating on them" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSlayer Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Humans can survive without meat, yes. But why is it then, that so many crave it? In fact, the majority do. If God, evolution, whatever had made it so that we were meant to be herbivores without the strength of beasts, then He should've created a being without the ability to make weapons to kill said beasts. This ain't no Planet of the Apes. And he should have also made a being without the ability to create unspeakable evil acts, commit murder, rape and all sorts of other evils. But he didn't did he, instead he gave us free will. I can understand about the craving part, and I know how it tastes (I've tried it before ) but just because we crave something, it doesn't always make it right does it. Hell I bet a lot of men here have 'craved' a woman they saw on the street, but that wouldn't make it right if we just jumped on her in the middle of the street and rocked the bushes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 I was merely pointing out, that we as humans are not 'built for the kill' so to speak as the natural carnivore predators in the wild are. We have to resort to weapons to kill deer, antelope, cows and other animals. A lion or a tiger on the other hand hunts these using its teeth, claws, speed, agility, muscular strength and so on. Now, if an animal was coming to attack me, with intent to kill or severly injure me, then of course I won't be foolish enough to allow it to do that. I would defend myself in any way I can, so guns and knives would have to be used in this kind of situation. Humans can certainly survive without meat, I know many who do so, and for millenia humans have been surviving without the need to kill animals and eat them. God has given us the ability to grow our own food, a lion and a tiger can't. So they have designed to hunt and kill other animals for food. Why should you defend yourself via unnatural means by shooting an attacking tiger, for example? And how do you know it's intent? Perhaps it wants to jump on you and roar at you to scare you, and then it'll lick your face and go away? God has given us the ability to grow our own food And also given the ability to make weapons to kill animals, or a brain to figure out how to breed animals for consumption - how many of them would be in existence if humans had never eaten meat? That's if you believe in a god Why live in a man-made house? It's all unnatural, and the human race is overpopulating the planet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Why live in a man-made house? It's all unnatural, and the human race is overpopulating the planet... I'm sure certain diseases will continue to thin the numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSlayer Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Why should you defend yourself via unnatural means by shooting an attacking tiger, for example? And how do you know it's intent? Perhaps it wants to jump on you and roar at you to scare you, and then it'll lick your face and go away? I'm not willing to take that chance And also given the ability to make weapons to kill animals, or a brain to figure out how to breed animals for consumption He's also given us the ability to commit murder, rape, and other evils. Does that mean we should go about doing those things? how many of them would be in existence if humans had never eaten meat? Not all the people of the earth were living in caves, grunting at each other and God knows what else. Other people at different parts of the Earth were growing their own food, because they knew how to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 He's also given us the ability to commit murder, rape, and other evils. Does that mean we should go about doing those things? Not all the people of the earth were living in caves, grunting at each other and God knows what else. Other people at different parts of the Earth were growing their own food, because they knew how to. That's IF we/you believe god is male and exists The things I do to avoid doing any work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Wait, ignore that last comment.... that'll get BOTH you and TeeJay on my back Not even Pugwash will want to get involved then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 I can understand about the craving part, and I know how it tastes (I've tried it before ) but just because we crave something, it doesn't always make it right does it. Hell I bet a lot of men here have 'craved' a woman they saw on the street, but that wouldn't make it right if we just jumped on her in the middle of the street and rocked the bushes I must say, I will happily endure the flames of Hell, if I can chow down this flame-broiled slab of yumminess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Go git 'em! Hot dang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blobzor Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Its not a Asian problem its a global problem......I saw a report from a zoo in China where people can buy live sheeps and throw them to lions Its so [censored]ed up their that the summer olympics shoud be boycotted by all.... I think the exact opposite, with the media concentration there in china during olympics it will put the spot light a lot more on them, for the good, and the bad things. I'm sure olympics will make things move down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 FACT: During the Prussian siege of Paris in 1870-1 (and subsequent Commune), no foodstuffs could come in and out of Paris as the Gerries surrounded the city pitilessly. So the Parisians turned to...their pets, for survival. They ate the Menagerie. They served the giraffes and other exotics with the finest wines and cognac that were, perhaps unsurprisingly with this being bourgeois Paris, still in plentiful supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 I think the exact opposite, with the media concentration there in china during olympics it will put the spot light a lot more on them, for the good, and the bad things. I'm sure olympics will make things move down there. Yep! Things are sure moving in...Tibet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 They ate the Menagerie. They served the giraffes and other exotics with the finest wines and cognac that were, perhaps unsurprisingly with this being bourgeois Paris, still in plentiful supply. And as usual, they got their behinds kicked by Les Boches. After which they just as mercilessly kicked each other's behinds during the uprising of La Commune. Gotta love the French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted March 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 and the human race is overpopulating the planet... i can agree on this I'm sure certain diseases will continue to thin the numbers Lets hope so as it is needed to save our planet. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnagy Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 (edited) again,another fact:all the people in the world today could fit inside the city limits of jacksonville,florida.it is nowhere near being overpopulated.think the american west,siberia,australia,almost all of south america.nobody lives there,plenty of room!read Karl Marx.lowering the world population to manageable levels is an old communist idea.for anybody interested,google "american stonehenge",or "georgia guidestones".very eerie crap.lowering of the world population is very high on someones list.read the number of people that would be considered acceptable.do the math. Edited March 20, 2008 by jnagy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 again,another fact:all the people in the world today could fit inside the city limits of jacksonville,florida.it is nowhere near being overpopulated.think the american west,siberia,australia,almost all of south america.nobody lives there,plenty of room!read Karl Marx.lowering the world population to manageable levels is an old communist idea.for anybody interested,google "american stonehenge",or "georgia guidestones".very eerie crap.lowering of the world population is very high on someones list.read the number of people that would be considered acceptable.do the math. Let's chop down the Amazon rainforest so there is more lebensraum for the human population... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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