China and animals

[Dani]

I do think the same China people that make our reps under less then ideal situation is the people on this clip, not to easy to afford better food or evolve to anything better i presume then this savages.

Press play button on the website.

http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2008/03/11/529440.html

Or you can simplu visit one voice here

http://www.onevoice-ear.org/english/index.html

Also donate some cash this people need it, just did myself 100€ not much but all amounts help people.

[KB]

Dani I'm sorry to say I fail to see what this One Voice can do to stop this, you need to remember that they eat these dogs and are not about to stop this practice for anyone.

I also find it hard to believe that One Voice will be able to find a way to force a communist country of over a billion people to treat these animals more humanly.

Its sad but its also a situation that wont change anytime soon.

Ken

[Dani]

Dani I'm sorry to say I fail to see what this One Voice can do to stop this, you need to remember that they eat these dogs and are not about to stop this practice for anyone.

I also find it hard to believe that One Voice will be able to find a way to force a communist country of over a billion people to treat these animals more humanly.

Its sad but its also a situation that wont change anytime soon.

Ken

If you just stand and do nothing what then?

Its better to try and fail then to not try at all.

[Victoria]

If you just stand and do nothing what then?

Its better to try and fail then to not try at all.

I think your cause is admirable, Dani. It's obvious you have much passion in it.

But I personally always check the background of any charity that I donate moneys to. Having lived in the Third World, I know all those good folks who contribute monthly funds to the "Save the Kiddies" type charities, often advertised on television late late at night, are a rip off.

Those kids don't see but a 1/10th of those funds, as the moneys get funnelled into the pockets of dozens before it reaches them. Sad but true. I once did a summer Peace-Corps "type" tour in Peru, and I was shocked to see the rampant corruption around me.

Anyway, back to One Voice. If you read it's mission statement, it'll tell you something about them:

http://www.onevoice-ear.org/english/organi...on/mission.html

For the record, Th

[Dani]

I think your cause is admirable, Dani. It's obvious you have much passion in it.

But I personally always check the background of any charity that I donate moneys to. Having lived in the Third World, I know all those good folks who contribute monthly funds to the "Save the Kiddies" type charities, often advertised on television late late at night, are a rip off.

Those kids don't see but a 1/10th of those funds, as the moneys get funnelled into the pockets of dozens before it reaches them. Sad but true. I once did a summer Peace-Corps "type" tour in Peru, and I was shocked to see the rampant corruption around me.

Anyway, back to One Voice. If you read it's mission statement, it'll tell you something about them:

http://www.onevoice-ear.org/english/organi...on/mission.html

For the record, Th

[Victoria]

This people got 5% of money i give to good causes in a year Vic

In my family, we have a rule. No charitable donations to non-medical organisations (most of ours goes to the League against Cancer, etc.). Everyone has their causes, Dani. I'm glad you do too.

China is also responsibel for alot of the trade in endangerd animals like tigers and other wildlife.

Right, again, they are not sentimental about animals. Throughout all their history, they were a nation overspilling with people. You eat what you can, or starve.

It's a 5000 year old culture. Toughie, but still I'm glad there are people like you, who battle the windmills!

[musicale]

It goes without saying that anyone objecting to this treatment of animals should not purchase battery-farmed chicken, or the eggs from caged hens.

[KB]

It goes without saying that anyone objecting to this treatment of animals should not purchase battery-farmed chicken, or the eggs from caged hens.

A strong argument could be made that they shouldn't buy reps either.

Personally I prefer to look at things that logically can be changed, like Japans whale hunts for instance.

Ken

[anton]

Like Ken, and others, I feel East Asians will never stop eating dog meat, etc. In Korea, it's hidden as their Westernisation is more progressive, but it still exists.

We Westerners are sentimental about dogs, and cats, etc. but Easterners just are not. Change must come from within to mean something.

It's only natural to feel sentimental to the creatures that we domesticated and cared for like our own children. And you know, Victoria, I agree with your statements 98% of the time, but to pile up all the "Easterners" as a whole and to say that they are not sympathetic towards domesticated animals or endangered wildlife, etc. is an unfair generalisation.

But the dogs being used for meat, were they ordinary housepets or were they wild animals?

[Victoria]

It's only natural to feel sentimental to the creatures that we domesticated and cared for like our own children. And you know, Victoria, I agree with your statements 98% of the time, but to pile up all the "Easterners" as a whole and to say that they are not sympathetic towards domesticated animals or endangered wildlife, etc. is an unfair generalisation.

Oh, no it's not that. I apologise if that's how it sounded, Anton.

What I meant, is that Eastern cultures have their own reasons for not becoming sentimental over domesticated animals, SPECIFICALLY cats and dogs.

One such theory is that overpopulation forced their hand, and as everyone who's lived on farms knows, you don't befriend that which will become lunch one day. That's all.

I'm not saying that every single human being in the area is a heartless monster, who eats these creatures because they don't like them. In fact, I'm a little shocked that anyone would think I would be making this suggestion!

The Chinese and most East Asians revere birds, keeping them often in 18k cages. Presumably Western outrage is muted because we keep birds locked up too, and we eat poultry, game, etc.

That's my underlying theme. That our outrage is greater because in our cultures certain things are verboten today. And though worthy, it's hypocritcal too.

If you read my reply closely, I'm coming down harder on us than on them...

[anton]

Oh, Victoria, I hate how my own perception gets the best of me.

My father once told me that it's best to remain happy and slightly ignorant than to be highly observant because you find yourself overanalytical to the point of unhappiness.

Back on to topic, though, we all feel like we have to do something and most of us feel that when we contribute to a plausible-sounding organisation, we feel that we, too, have made a contribution for change.

And you hit the nail on the head yourself, Victoria. Donating money doesn't exaclty mean that your money will do towards a cause. I believe it is even here in the US, only a precentage of monies received from patrons to a donation need to be set aside in order for it to be considered a "charitable" organisation.

And while we're on that, don't you also find it peculiar that most charities disclose that "proceeds go to XXXX", conveniently omitting the "1%-100%"?

As much as I like the cause that some legitimate organisations are doing, one must look into them carefully before contributing.

And lastly, I don't want to call it a lost cause, but once again, Victoria, you've pointed it out---that it's senseless to doctrinate our Western Views onto Eastern Society...wouldn't that make it an imperialistic society?

[ExtraExtra]

Easterners are perhaps more consistent on what they see as a food source...there's little that is not on the menu. The opposite is true with westerners. Boils down to cultural differences.

[marrickvilleboy]

Guys:

While I am strongly against eating dogs, we have to remember that they are animals and while it is widely conventional to regard dogs as domestic animals, it is not convention to some of the Asia population. This comes down from generation to generation of tradition and culture. If i'm offered dog meat, I simply just decline politely. Killing animals for food is part of human nature, so they eat a different kind of meat that we're not use to, that doesn't mean that they are evil and wrong.

In particular at the comment of boycotting the olympics....you got to be kidding me....so Spanish tradition of bullfighting is right and ethical then? Just be open minded to different culture and people. You saying that its a Global issue then directly criticize only China is a bias that you may want to reconsider. Maybe if you stop giving them your money for replica watches, they won't have money to play these "sheep into the lion den" games.

Consider that every action has a consequence, perhaps you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you.....

[Victoria]

Oh, Victoria, I hate how my own perception gets the best of me.

My father once told me that it's best to remain happy and slightly ignorant than to be highly observant because you find yourself overanalytical to the point of unhappiness.

Your dad said a true word! Have you noticed how ignorant people are often happy, and overly intellectual people commit suicide at higher rates?

But even knowing this, I would hate to remain ignorant -- though being stupid is a greater crime in my eyes.

And while we're on that, don't you also find it peculiar that most charities disclose that "proceeds go to XXXX", conveniently omitting the "1%-100%"?

YES. That bugs me.

Have you ever had that special bottled water in Starbucks? Proceeds go to build potable water sources in the Third World. Commendable, right?

But the water costs U$1.95 and according to their website, only 5 CENTS goes to the charity. WTF. Where does the other $1.90 go to??

And lastly, I don't want to call it a lost cause, but once again, Victoria, you've pointed it out---that it's senseless to doctrinate our Western Views onto Eastern Society...wouldn't that make it an imperialistic society?

EXACTLY.

BUT.

To play devil's advocate, there ARE some things that the West is more "advanced" in, than others.

As awful as the British Raj was to India, they MIGHT still be committing suttee if not for our insistence they abolish it in the mid-1800s.

When this Maharaja died, all his wives committed suttee. Their palm prints remain as testament of their act.

Just in case some don't recognise the term, suttee is where the widow of a man throws herself on his body, in a burning pyre, and immolates herself. That was unspeakable, misogynistic, and thank God that's no longer practised in the beautiful country that is India.

But that too is imperialism...

@Kenberg: Right, very true. But whilst it might be called an affectation of the higher castes, it still existed, and was expected of them.

Duelling was very big in Europe until WWI with our upper-classes too, but the last fatal duel in England was in 1852. There was a famous duel in France, conducted secretly by Brits in the 1950s, but what's important is not that it still happens, but that it was outlawed.

[KB]

Actually I believe you will find that Sati (as pronounced by Hindi's) was never obligatory and that there were and still have been cases of it after the British outlawed it.

Ken

[Dani]

It's only natural to feel sentimental to the creatures that we domesticated and cared for like our own children. And you know, Victoria, I agree with your statements 98% of the time, but to pile up all the "Easterners" as a whole and to say that they are not sympathetic towards domesticated animals or endangered wildlife, etc. is an unfair generalisation.

But the dogs being used for meat, were they ordinary housepets or were they wild animals?

You guys are missing the point totaly, its not that they eat dogs its the way they get KILLED.

Guys:

While I am strongly against eating dogs, we have to remember that they are animals and while it is widely conventional to regard dogs as domestic animals, it is not convention to some of the Asia population. This comes down from generation to generation of tradition and culture. If i'm offered dog meat, I simply just decline politely. Killing animals for food is part of human nature, so they eat a different kind of meat that we're not use to, that doesn't mean that they are evil and wrong.

In particular at the comment of boycotting the olympics....you got to be kidding me....so Spanish tradition of bullfighting is right and ethical then? Just be open minded to different culture and people. You saying that its a Global issue then directly criticize only China is a bias that you may want to reconsider. Maybe if you stop giving them your money for replica watches, they won't have money to play these "sheep into the lion den" games.

Consider that every action has a consequence, perhaps you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you.....

Read my respond to anton.

Spain has gotten alot of heat for their bullfighting i hate the practice and so do alot of people in Spain and the world.

My money goes to Chinese people yes but i belive they can change, to boycott the Olympics is something that all shoud do, animal rights, human rights the list goes on and on they shoud have never been given the right to host the games.

Cheers

[TeeJay]

This people got 5% of money i give to good causes in a year Vic

Its not a Asian problem its a global problem......I saw a report from a zoo in China where people can buy live sheeps and throw them to lions Its so [censored]ed up their that the summer olympics shoud be boycotted by all....

China is also responsibel for alot of the trade in endangerd animals like tigers and other wildlife.

The Romans used to throw something else to the lions

I'm not one to stand for animal cruelty by any means, but, as Marrickvilleboy pointed out, one cannot ignore cultural issues, and brand one country as barbaric, cruel, savage etc, simply because their culture is different. They are different, so must be treated as, and respected as, different.

In the wild, would a lion be fed pre-killed, pre-cut steaks?

Animals shouldn't be in a zoo at all, what they are fed, is irrelevent.

My money goes to Chinese people yes but i belive they can change, to boycott the Olympics is something that all shoud do, animal rights, human rights the list goes on and on they shoud have never been given the right to host the games.

Cheers

And you are quite right about that, indeed, China has a shocking record for human rights, but, that does not give one society the right to impose its beliefs upon another, or insist on conformity to those beliefs. Tollerance requires acknowledging that that culture is different, not trying to make it the same.

I trust you boycott all Chinese produce.

FWIW, I asked Silix to donate the costs from a transaction that went south to a local animal welfare charity rather than refund it to me.

[anton]

You guys are missing the point totaly, its not that they eat dogs its the way they get KILLED.

Point duly noted, Dani.

Then if we are talking about the issue of the way the Dogs get killed, do you think the way our livestock and poultry get killed are any better?

Do you propose a better solution than electroshock, bullets, and wringing necks?

I do apologize if I've missed what you were aiming for, Dani. But to be fair to the other posters in this thread, you were being vague in your original post and some of us do not speak or read Norwegian.

jeg beklager jeg bydde ikke oppfatte du.

[fendushi]

I am of Chinese origins and I am grateful that no member of my family... whether it's immediate or not, have ever or thought about eating a cat or a dog.

I am probably the only member of my family living without a dog or a cat because (no, smart a$$es... I didn't eat them ) I live on my own and I work from 10 hours a day, 5 days a week... I know that I can't give it the attention that they need.

I've heard of this Chinese saying before (actually from a white man, so dunno if it's true)... "If it's back faces the Sun... you can eat it."

Edited March 13, 2008 by fendushi

[Mitton Mar]

Dogs are not eaten all year around in China, there is a dog eating season and it is late Autumn to the end of the year. Restaurants run specisla dn do promotions.

You are not going to stop it.

Just like you are not going to stop Argentinians eating Guinea Pigs, French eating snails and frogs, Scottish people almost hunting the wild haggis to extinction.

You might not belive this but it is TRUE: A mate of mine has a Shenzen factory and he had an Alsatian guard dog on duty to dissuade people from stealing his stock of highly expensive machines and stock. In December thieves broke in, guess what they stole? Yup. The dog. And yes, it was eaten.

[capice]

I understand people have to eat but I cannot understand any cruelty to living creatures, animal or man. Why acting like a savages, are they still living in the stoneage????

I'm sick to my stomach seeing this. If it happened in front of me personally I don't know what I would do, probably I could't control myself, get the club and bash the man's head....

@ Teejay, great gesture m8, but do you think Jay will do that?

[marrickvilleboy]

You guys are missing the point totaly, its not that they eat dogs its the way they get KILLED.

Read my respond to anton.

Spain has gotten alot of heat for their bullfighting i hate the practice and so do alot of people in Spain and the world.

My money goes to Chinese people yes but i belive they can change, to boycott the Olympics is something that all shoud do, animal rights, human rights the list goes on and on they shoud have never been given the right to host the games.

Cheers

wow.....

I am of Chinese origins and I am grateful that no member of my family... whether it's immediate or not, have ever or thought about eating a cat or a dog.

I am probably the only member of my family living without a dog or a cat because (no, smart a$$es... I didn't eat them ) I live on my own and I work from 10 hours a day, 5 days a week... I know that I can't give it the attention that they need.

I've heard of this Chinese saying before (actually from a white man, so dunno if it's true)... "If it's back faces the Sun... you can eat it."

hahah no fendi, its this one

"you can eat anything that has 4 legs except tables and chairs"

[marrickvilleboy]

I understand people have to eat but I cannot understand any cruelty to living creatures, animal or man. Why acting like a savages, are they still living in the stoneage????

I'm sick to my stomach seeing this. If it happened in front of me personally I don't know what I would do, probably I could't control myself, get the club and bash the man's head....

@ Teejay, great gesture m8, but do you think Jay will do that?

I will agree that one of the biggest issues with China is its treatment of humanity in general. The late 80's Tiananmen Massacre was a very good example. A somewhat peaceful protest by university students led to the death of over 100 of them, some of them being run over by tanks. Perhaps other nations would have used pressure hoses, or rubber bullets, or police barrage instead that day....god knows who gave tham the order to kill....

While I am strongly against China's inhumane acts, I don't believe boycotting the olympics is going to help. I believe, however, that exposing them to world culture will benefit the society and they may just be able to see a glimpse of a society that does respect humanity and may one day reflect on it themselves....knowledge and experience is everything guys....don't take that away from them....not many of them understand that there is a society outside China, this is a good chance for them to see....

Changing a tradition and attitude that stems from over 5000 years of history is not going to happen overnight....but its getting better...lets hope its even better.

[Dani]

Point duly noted, Dani.

Then if we are talking about the issue of the way the Dogs get killed, do you think the way our livestock and poultry get killed are any better?

Do you propose a better solution than electroshock, bullets, and wringing necks?

I do apologize if I've missed what you were aiming for, Dani. But to be fair to the other posters in this thread, you were being vague in your original post and some of us do not speak or read Norwegian.

jeg beklager jeg bydde ikke oppfatte du.

this killings are beyond any halal slaughter or kosher this is PURE BRUTALITY nothing else.

you dont seem to understand and i em sure dont have a great deal of empati for animals in general.

Dogs are not eaten all year around in China, there is a dog eating season and it is late Autumn to the end of the year. Restaurants run specisla dn do promotions.

You are not going to stop it.

Just like you are not going to stop Argentinians eating Guinea Pigs, French eating snails and frogs, Scottish people almost hunting the wild haggis to extinction.

You might not belive this but it is TRUE: A mate of mine has a Shenzen factory and he had an Alsatian guard dog on duty to dissuade people from stealing his stock of highly expensive machines and stock. In December thieves broke in, guess what they stole? Yup. The dog. And yes, it was eaten.

Trying to be funny? if yes your not.

I understand people have to eat but I cannot understand any cruelty to living creatures, animal or man. Why acting like a savages, are they still living in the stoneage????

I'm sick to my stomach seeing this. If it happened in front of me personally I don't know what I would do, probably I could't control myself, get the club and bash the man's head....

@ Teejay, great gesture m8, but do you think Jay will do that?

I dont see why either, the way the act just show have much their life is worth for me a ant is more worth then this people..I now that not all Chinese people are like this so it gives me hope that their is in fact many animal welfare groups in China that are working 24/7 on this issues.

I will agree that one of the biggest issues with China is its treatment of humanity in general. The late 80's Tiananmen Massacre was a very good example. A somewhat peaceful protest by university students led to the death of over 100 of them, some of them being run over by tanks. Perhaps other nations would have used pressure hoses, or rubber bullets, or police barrage instead that day....god knows who gave tham the order to kill....

While I am strongly against China's inhumane acts, I don't believe boycotting the olympics is going to help. I believe, however, that exposing them to world culture will benefit the society and they may just be able to see a glimpse of a society that does respect humanity and may one day reflect on it themselves....knowledge and experience is everything guys....don't take that away from them....not many of them understand that there is a society outside China, this is a good chance for them to see....

Changing a tradition and attitude that stems from over 5000 years of history is not going to happen overnight....but its getting better...lets hope its even better.

Good post i agree whit you on the exposing.

Maybe boycotting is not the best way.

[Victoria]

You guys are missing the point totaly, its not that they eat dogs its the way they get KILLED.

So if they're kissed to death, you don't mind if they're eaten, Dani??