RWG Technical Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 We are the consumer (potentialy) It's basic economics. If the consumer base feels a product is over priced they will not pay that for it. I agree, but this only works if the consumer is informed. As veteran members we are informed (sometimes to informed), we can share that information on the forum so that everyone is coming from the same place. Otherwise someone who is not informed could be mislead by the price alone. Now, I know some members are not very informed on computers, and I have a wonderful Commodore 64 (YES, not a typo 64 Millon Bites on this one) Computer for sale, it's got the BIG 8 1/2" memory disks so you can store a LOT of informaion, a full colour screen (green and black, green is a colour after all) and with this computer you can do amazing things... I am only asking $1000, and considering the colour screen and the large storage disk, it's a deal and a steal. Please pm me if your interested... and please, only uninformed consumers please, I don't want a bunch of techno questions...either you want it or don't want it... RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 we just did this discussion 2 weeks ago - i have made my opinion known - Price is market based. If you want to be an idiot and buy a rep for 200% of what silix is selling it for, than your an idiot - and you should pay the idiot tax - The info is freely available here - especially for forum sponsors -if your not a sponsor than your a leech - your getting the value of our info and not giving back - and i don't want to here BS about how you can afford to buy a rep but you can't afford the 5 bucks a month or whatever. I don't feel sorry for leeches no one encourages you to purchase used reps - what someone is happy paying is their own business. Unless the person lies about the watch, its movement, its condition, ect ect ect ect - this one is PERFECt, no flaws - and it has flaws yadda yadda - Stay out of the thread. WANT TO KNOW WHY?!?!?!?! Because you get into these issues and fights that you don't belong in - Funny story - Flavor Flav - someone who i'm friendly with - gave me [censored] at one time because he thought i was over charging for a pen i was selling - he thread crapped all over me - Now - many accuse him of taking liberties with the value of his work and watch sales. - Those in glass houses - IF THERE IS NO LIE - CLOSE THE THREAD AND MOVE ON BYE - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Then I say shut down RWG and let everyone shop at www.scamyouwithafakewatch.com End of story...problem solved, no one fights and the idiots get what they deserve, all of them... RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slai Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 The Zigmeister...holy crap, a working C64 actually may actually fetch 1k as a collector's item! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 I was involved in a similar situation on another forum. Basically, the guy bought an Angus 111e from another forum member, and then turned around and tried to sell it for $625, which a noob bought. He then eloquently listed 'all the mods', which were just standard things on an angus 'ultimate', pin fix (due to the thinner dial), flush cg pin, etc, NO SUPERLUME or anything else Seeing that it only had the standard stuff, I simply asked the seller to validate his price. I got slammed by some members screaming about allowing 'fair markets' dictate the price & that I'm not responsible for noob's ignorance and they should do the research before hand, etc...the normal arguments... In the end, he validated it by saying that he was throwing in 2 straps (rep straps by the way)...later on in the thread the original owner of the watch piped in and said he sold it for $350 with 2 nice straps and thats when the sh** hit the fan...The noob buyer asked for a refund, etc... NOW this is NOT completely parallel to Chad's situation because Chad is not GROSSLY overpricing....but it is similar in that Mickey's first post was just to validate Chad's pricing rationale. I really think it got waaaay out of hand and a bit emotional, but I don't see anything wrong by posting in a sale's thread and commenting on price AS LONG AS ITS DONE AMICABLY and a tool to educate anyone that is not so well versed in the pricing of a particular watch. I know Chad is a nice guy because we communicate outside the forum (plus he's like my neighbor) and his intention wasn't to gouge anyone. I think he saw UB7 sell his HBB at a premium price and understandably wanted the most for his watch. I do believe he felt his logic was fair. I just think in this particular situation, things flared up out of control. I think if you're going to sell a used watch for 'more' than its suppose to be, you need to be diligent in stating why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs1971 Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 When somebody advertizes a watch for a higher price than economical justified....... it's a free market. If someone is too lazy to do research or for whatever reasons decides to pay for an overpriced watch........ it's a free market. On the other hand, the main reason for the existence of RWG is to protect and inform people. So if you advertize an overpriced watch in a free market, also be prepared to get negative feedback. As long as nobody gets personal attacked I don't see any harm if people give motivated negative feedback in a sales thread. But I do hope that the same people are also willing to criticize overpriced collector's sales....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Ziggy...holy crap, a working C64 actually may actually fetch 1k as a collector's item! Consider it yours, I'll bring it along when I make it to TO. RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Why did Chad's post get so much attention, when we have had 2 PAM's advertized, not once but listed twice now, for $1500 or close to 3 times what the watch cost new. EDIT (one PAM has a DW upgrade, one a DW and Lume)... but the asking price is 3 times the new cost, and no one says a word (well I did, but it was concerning a $15 freebie...) Do we have two standards? Ignore certain overpriced ad's, but jump on others?? RG Agree. We don't delete or censor any controversial/problematic threads and sweep them "under the carpet". I told you that yesterday in PM. Things don't work like that here. If you think it's personal, there's nothing I can do. But it's not. Good question. I have no idea why it was just Chad's thread that "exploded" like that. Maybe everything just started from the "wrong foot", and it snowballed from there? Maybe if the mods had gotten in little sooner and give warning to some members that crapped his post it woud not "snowball"to what happend? This has been discussed before... why is there a second thread made about it? If people wanna sell overpriced things then it is my duty, as an aspiring AMERICAN, to make others aware! lol I assure you I WILL NEVER again post in another persons FOR SALE thread... Neither in support of their sale or questioning it. Good we dont ned your thread crapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Consider it yours, I'll bring it along when I make it to TO. RG Did you not make it on the 9th? I was trying to get in touch with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Fair markets start with fair sellers. I just sold a watch for $100 under list because ... um, I fitted ETA date wheels to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 The very mission of this site is to help people get what they pay for,.. I don't see any reason why we expect the trade forum to be exempt from the same message. In my opinion there is not enough public response to some of what goes on there.... All this 'The market makes the rules' arguments has is being distorted and used in ways that are not in line to our community goals... For instance if someone is selling a rare piece, or one that has the mods to prove it's worth, and someone makes a uninformed opinion regarding the price,.. then they will be quickly corrected by those in the know.. However if someone is using the used trade forum to make a profit,.. for a piece that is readily available from a dealer for less.. that's seeking to take advantage of ignorance and should be pointed out... It makes no difference if the watch was 'unworn'.. because a private seller does not offer the same kinds of guarantees that a dealer does,.. so it's a moot point. The trade forum at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Fair markets start with fair sellers. I just sold a watch for $100 under list because ... um, I fitted ETA date wheels to it. AMAZING. I em sure you are the only one. The very mission of this site is to help people get what they pay for,.. I don't see any reason why we expect the trade forum to be exempt from the same message. In my opinion there is not enough public response to some of what goes on there.... All this 'The market makes the rules' arguments has is being distorted and used in ways that are not in line to our community goals... For instance if someone is selling a rare piece, or one that has the mods to prove it's worth, and someone makes a uninformed opinion regarding the price,.. then they will be quickly corrected by those in the know.. However if someone is using the used trade forum to make a profit,.. for a piece that is readily available from a dealer for less.. that's seeking to take advantage of ignorance and should be pointed out... It makes no difference if the watch was 'unworn'.. because a private seller does not offer the same kinds of guarantees that a dealer does,.. so it's a moot point. The trade forum at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 but then again lets do double standard.. like u said modded watch shouldnt be added the mod value.. so if u have any modded MBW vintage rolex.. can u sell it to me in its original price less the used price!!! like u recomended? coz wow that would be great!! im serious.. im interested!! Your a day late and a dollar short there speedy... Check my last couple for sale posts. I have sold 3 MBW vintage Rolex's with mods for under the original cost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 I have sold all my watches for heavy reduced prices i now many are very happy whit buying from me, still i don't ask for others to have reduced price they can do what they whant..What you do with your personal sales speaks louder than your protest on behalf of those who are seeking to sneak in and score from a uneducated buyer then, call for 'delete this post'... You can't have it both ways, Dani,.. what happened in the trading forum with Chad IS the 'Market' Speaking. So What you are saying is that we should keep our mouths shut unless it conforms to your notions, which again you don't support with your actions demonstrated in how you sell your pieces.... I find this conflicted arguing for the sake of arguing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Ahem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 What you do with your personal sales speaks louder than your protest on behalf of those who are seeking to sneak in and score from a uneducated buyer then, call for 'delete this post'... You can't have it both ways, Dani,.. what happened in the trading forum with Chad IS the 'Market' Speaking. So What you are saying is that we should keep our mouths shut unless it conforms to your notions, which again you don't support with your actions demonstrated in how you sell your pieces.... I find this conflicted arguing for the sake of arguing.. I don't like that people crap down other peoples sale post some members here do it to often even when its nothing to do whit price. I em sorry but your English in this post quoted first line is not easy to understand for me. Even if i sell for heavy reduced price and give great bargins i don't ask for all to do that, its a free and open marked. If i see i watch i like and i now its great in terms of functions i woud rather buy froma well now'n member then get hustled by "our" dealers. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 I don't like that people crap down other peoples sale post some members here do it to often even when its nothing to do whit price. I em sorry but your English in this post quoted first line is not easy to understand for me. Even if i sell for heavy reduced price and give great bargins i don't ask for all to do that, its a free and open marked. If i see i watch i like and i now its great in terms of functions i woud rather buy froma well now'n member then get hustled by "our" dealers. Cheers Again.. it IS an Open Market,.. and the people have spoken... Censorship of opinion leaves the forum open to dishonest practices, which is a worse alternative... What you call 'Crapping', others call 'Informing' or questioning,.. Not to say that there have not been some silly or wrong posts at times.. but it's all a part of an open trading forum.. Those that cannot accept it,.. simply don't have to post there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Again.. it IS an Open Market,.. and the people have spoken... Censorship of opinion leaves the forum open to dishonest practices, which is a worse alternative... What you call 'Crapping', others call 'Informing' or questioning,.. Not to say that there have not been some silly or wrong posts at times.. but it's all a part of an open trading forum.. Those that cannot accept it,.. simply don't have to post there... This members have crapped the post and other post in sale section. What you are saying is if you dont like people killing your sale post then dont post at all, this is a joke to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightstroker Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 (edited) It seems that the subject of this thread has gone way off course from its original purpose....so I did not bother to read the whole thing....and I appologize if this solution was mentioned anywhere in the thread.... To avoid the bashing of a for sale thread....you could turn the thread into a POLL and click on the box that will not allow anyone to post in the thread....then the seller should put in the thread that any questions or inquiries will be sent through PM.... Problem solved.... NS Edited April 22, 2008 by Nightstroker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 This members have crapped the post and other post in sale section. What you are saying is if you dont like people killing your sale post then dont post at all, this is a joke to say.If a sale is that much open to ridicule,.. then either withdraw or alter it,.. the market speaks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Dani seems to be of the opinion that name calling, insulting and being generally rude is acceptable. But even questioning someone about something is unacceptable. I dont see the logic there, but maybe it was lost in translation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Wow, I guess I am late to this thread. I had taken part in Chad's thread. I thought I would offer what is my thought process in this. I thought Chad's reasoning was a bit out there for the justification. And I know that if I was not the only one speaking on this, then other people feel the same way. To one of the members' suggestion of not posting anything in a sales thread. I don't think that is a feasible solution. What if we do have a scammer among us, that is posting a deal of a lifetime, but some people have had bad experience with that seller, are they just not supposed to post anything at all? Remember the old days of Chronomat123 (Eric)'s fiasco? are we just not going to post anything at all? I know this is a far fetched comparison between Chad and Eric. But I think posting in a sales threead is ok, as long as you do it with respect. I do not think my post towards Chad was out of line. And anyone can question why that person is selling at a certain price point. Perhaps to better gauge what the watch is really worth. I have never dealt with RBJ before, but if tomorrow I post a watch for sale that was modded by him, and I say something to the effect of "because I had to deal with Joe, and him screwing me and my watch for 6 months' time" do I automatically tax that premium on to the next buyer? I couldn't find myself doing that, and I cannot fathom seeing anyone else doing it either. I made a post in there with a Silix link. I thought it was ok for me to do, and why not? One school of thought would say perhaps Chad's AR was worth the extra $130. But maybe to the next buyer, they are willing to wait a month or two waiting in line for the AR work on top of the Black Magic, and why not? Waiting a month for AR to be done, that money savings, could get me Asian SFSO. If we were to take a poll, perhaps it would be 50/50, whereas someone don't want to wait for a month, and opted to pay $130 over the marketed value, and half of the members would want to have an extra watch. I offer it as an alternative for someone who do not want to pay for a $550 PVD'ed Big Bang. I think it is warranted. To "me", I feel like I am informing the other members of the forum, of that opportunity, to perhaps save some money. If today, the markup is not that substantial, I would not bother to look at the thread at all. I just happened to came across it, by chance. And to RG, I was not aware of other Pams charging 3 times as much, I just didn't look at all the threads in the sale section. But maybe I should start selling my modded 036 or 005 for the price though. My last point would be, this is the internet guys. I think this gives us freedom to post our thoughts are, as long as I do not do it in a demeaning manner, or resort to name calling. This is what makes internet forum great. Because for all you know, I can be a big dude, that can bench press 450, or some small guy, or the guy that said the word Karma a lot, due to his avatar....you'd never know. Ok, done with my stupid thought process, feel free to flame me away!..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 One thing I wanted to say earlier is that I apologize to the group for the things getting out of hand in my thread. I certainly took part in getting it that way. I was bombared with PM's and believe me I PM'ed first but people were responding to my pm's straight to the post and being downright rude. My anger was reflected from the PM's I was getting and the posts. Then member were posting those PM's. These are people I have never offended or had contact with. It [censored] me off.....quite a bit. For that I am sorry and regretful. I certainly could have reduced the heat in my thread. I do stand by what I said though and what I have posted here earlier. As far as what my watch was worth..... Honestly, I could calculate pricing schemes that would come out cheaper and more than what I did. My first price was 75 over my investment. That is a fact. I have paid that extra for AR and lume before and did not really think twice about recouping those premiums myself. If some people find this a moral issue, I can assure you I was not sitting here thinking how I could scam anyone. If it makes anyone happy, I sold two HBB's one ceramic and one steel before the price increase when they first came out for 200-300. A few weeks later people were unloaded them used for 500 left and right without harassment. Also if anyone thinks I am a "dealer". Man oh man....... if you only knew how much money I have blown on flipping reps. I can assure you it is not a + number but a -$$$$. Anyway I think I was mistreated and thread crapping should not be allowed but I am also sorry for allowing anger to cloud my posts and handling of the situation. By the way, the watch is being sold locally for cash at 400 to one of our members. I reduced it to 425 before I pulled the ad and we worked out the 400 due to local with no fees. Once again, rejoice! I am losing money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 This is becoming very repetitive. I've never crapped on a thread before...........but I'd like to crap on this one. How do I do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Sending PM to Chad responding negatively is not warranted. I think we are all better than that. That needs to stop right away. I certainly hope we won't have more negative PMs going around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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