Freakin Thieves...

[capice]

Hats off for your controlled behaviour Carlsbad.., don't know what I would have done since I was (luckily) never in this situation.

Job well done

[rogerwine]

Outstanding outcome and well done. There has to be a lot of satisfaction gained with stopping those idiots in the act and saving your own property. I acquired my defensive skills in the U. S. Marine Corp as well as a good measure of restraint. And the restraint has served me well since then.

Rogerwine

[Raijor]

I'm sure you will. A big man like yourself.

What are you driving at Mentalist? If you have a point to make get on with it and say it in plain English.

[Guest carlsbadrolex]

Outstanding outcome and well done. There has to be a lot of satisfaction gained with stopping those idiots in the act and saving your own property. I acquired my defensive skills in the U. S. Marine Corp as well as a good measure of restraint. And the restraint has served me well since then.

Rogerwine

It seems we have a similar history...

Semper Fi

[TeeJay]

Glad to hear you had a good resolution to the situation

[The Mentalist]

What are you driving at Mentalist? If you have a point to make get on with it and say it in plain English.

What I'm saying is that only fools carry knives and 9 out of 10 times those that carry them don't have the stones to use them. Does it make you feel like a tough guy carrying a blade?

[Corgi]

What I'm saying is that only fools carry knives and 9 out of 10 times those that carry them don't have the stones to use them. Does it make you feel like a tough guy carrying a blade?

I don't think he carries a "blade" to feel like a "tough guy," I think it is a self-defense tool to be used as a last-resort during a time of emergency. Furthermore, brandishing a weapon and slicing up a crook are two very different variations of the term "use". It is unlikely that most people would need to resort to doing the latter, but when it does happen, it could mean the difference between life and death. I have similar security "systems" strewn discreetly throughout my home for this very purpose. Life in London is very different than life in North America, and while you might not see a need to carry a weapon, somebody living in a heavy crime zone region of the United States surely does.

[Raijor]

What I'm saying is that only fools carry knives and 9 out of 10 times those that carry them don't have the stones to use them. Does it make you feel like a tough guy carrying a blade?

There does that make you feel better now that you got that out?

I have not been in a physical altercation since I was a teenager some thirty years ago and hope that I never get into one again. My first preference is to avoid problems when ever possible and I have no difficulty saying I would rather run than fight. I am a home builder and often am alone in my show home working late in the evening and meeting with strangers for the first time in a vacant home.

My preference would be to carry a concealed hand gun for personal protection, however, in Canada extremely restrictive gun laws make this impossible. I carry a 6 inch Kubotan on my key ring and a CRKT folding Tanto in my pocket both for personal protection.

In the past 3 years 2 real estate agents in my city have been beaten up and robbed. I have been chased around my show home by a drunk who could not run as fast angry as I could scared. he had to be evicted by the local constabulary.

My wife and daughter carry key ring Kubotans because I believe that it is better to be prepared than to believe nothing can happen. There are bad people in the world who are armed and want to hurt other people and take away the things that they have and they will use violence to get what they want. Why should they be the only ones armed?

I certainly feel better making clear my side.

[Raijor]

I don't think he carries a "blade" to feel like a "tough guy," I think it is a self-defense tool to be used as a last-resort during a time of emergency. Furthermore, brandishing a weapon and slicing up a crook are two very different variations of the term "use". It is unlikely that most people would need to resort to doing the latter, but when it does happen, it could mean the difference between life and death. I have similar security "systems" strewn discreetly throughout my home for this very purpose. Life in London is very different than life in North America, and while you might not see a need to carry a weapon, somebody living in a heavy crime zone region of the United States surely does.

So very true ... the world has changed very much since I was a teenager ... Carjackings and home invasions never existed.

[The Mentalist]

I don't think he carries a "blade" to feel like a "tough guy," I think it is a self-defense tool to be used as a last-resort during a time of emergency. Furthermore, brandishing a weapon and slicing up a crook are two very different variations of the term "use". It is unlikely that most people would need to resort to doing the latter, but when it does happen, it could mean the difference between life and death. I have similar security "systems" strewn discreetly throughout my home for this very purpose. Life in London is very different than life in North America, and while you might not see a need to carry a weapon, somebody living in a heavy crime zone region of the United States surely does.

If you follow the news, you will find that knife crime in London is endemic. I am not a tree hugging pacifist, far from it. My collection of bladed weapons is pretty extensive and I have trained with knives during over 25 years of martial arts training including lecturing and teaching on self defence.

I speak from the viewpoint of someone who has been personally affected by knife crime. There is no justification for ever carrying a knife, even as a precautionary measure. Forgetting the fact that it is illegal, there is the fact that it can be used against you or others. If you encounter a knife, there are many ways to tackle the situation. Pulling out another knife is not one them. A knife will not stop a bullet, so what is the point? Using it against an unarmed assailant? That's too much force and will land you in legal trouble. My point is, carrying a knife for self defence is not big and not clever.

I'll get off my high horse now. Sorry for going off topic.

[The Mentalist]

There does that make you feel better now that you got that out?

My preference would be to carry a concealed hand gun for personal protection, however, in Canada extremely restrictive gun laws make this impossible. I carry a 6 inch Kubotan on my key ring and a CRKT folding Tanto in my pocket both for personal protection.

A Kubotan does not kill, a knife does. Are you prepared to go to the ultimate extreme and take another person's life? Does a drunk deserve to be killed because he has gotten a bit rowdy and scared you? Are you prepared to give a robber the means to kill you if you pull out a knife and try to fight back and fail? Sure, a knife is a good visual deterrent but are you prepared for the sensation of sinking steel into living flesh if the deterrence does not work? If you pull a knife out, self defence or otherwise, you make sure you are emotionally prepared to use it.

[Toadtorrent]

Enough of the politics...I want to know about the system that pages you when you're car doors are open and tells you the hood of your car is open as well!!

[Raijor]

A Kubotan does not kill, a knife does. Are you prepared to go to the ultimate extreme and take another person's life? Does a drunk deserve to be killed because he has gotten a bit rowdy and scared you? Are you prepared to give a robber the means to kill you if you pull out a knife and try to fight back and fail? Sure, a knife is a good visual deterrent but are you prepared for the sensation of sinking steel into living flesh if the deterrence does not work? If you pull a knife out, self defence or otherwise, you make sure you are emotionally prepared to use it.

A Kubotan does not kill, a knife does

I beg to differ on this point

Are you prepared to go to the ultimate extreme and take another person's life?

I don't know ... hope I never have to find out

Does a drunk deserve to be killed because he has gotten a bit rowdy and scared you?

I did not fight with him or use a weapon on him ... I ran arournd house with him desirous of laying his hands on me and I called the police to remove him.

Are you prepared to give a robber the means to kill you if you pull out a knife and try to fight back and fail?

I would prefer not to.

Sure, a knife is a good visual deterrent but are you prepared for the sensation of sinking steel into living flesh if the deterrence does not work?

I am not a trained killer so will I have to cross that bridge when and if I ever come to it. I would prefer the option of putting a 9mm into into a bad guy intent on hurting me or my family but I live in Canada and we can not legally carry hand guns.

If you pull a knife out, self defence or otherwise, you make sure you are emotionally prepared to use it.

OK

[Dani]

If you follow the news, you will find that knife crime in London is endemic. I am not a tree hugging pacifist, far from it. My collection of bladed weapons is pretty extensive and I have trained with knives during over 25 years of martial arts training including lecturing and teaching on self defence.

I speak from the viewpoint of someone who has been personally affected by knife crime. There is no justification for ever carrying a knife, even as a precautionary measure. Forgetting the fact that it is illegal, there is the fact that it can be used against you or others. If you encounter a knife, there are many ways to tackle the situation. Pulling out another knife is not one them. A knife will not stop a bullet, so what is the point? Using it against an unarmed assailant? That's too much force and will land you in legal trouble. My point is, carrying a knife for self defence is not big and not clever.

I'll get off my high horse now. Sorry for going off topic.

:clap3:

well said.

Raijor@

you now what police use to sedue combativ or threatning people?

They use pepper spray or CS gas if you feel so unsafe a knife is by far the worst thing to use or have..

I have used most stuff also against others and by far the best product was pepper spray..Pepper spray is so easy to use and gives you time to get away or if you have other agenda do him good..Also against dogs it is very good me as a dog owner have it to combat dogs that is not on leach so their will be no fight against my dog as my dog woud never lose its just a better option for both partys.

If you need any points to where to get it i can give it to you police grade stuff no weak bs stuff, my mom even my grandma has pepper spray

Sorry for the OT.

Cheers,

Dani

[Raijor]

well said.

Raijor@

you now what police use to sedue combativ or threatning people?

They use pepper spray or CS gas if you feel so unsafe a knife is by far the worst thing to use or have..

I have used most stuff also against others and by far the best product was pepper spray..Pepper spray is so easy to use and gives you time to get away or if you have other agenda do him good..Also against dogs it is very good me as a dog owner have it to combat dogs that is not on leach so their will be no fight against my dog as my dog woud never lose its just a better option for both partys.

If you need any points to where to get it i can give it to you police grade stuff no weak bs stuff, my mom even my grandma has pepper spray

Sorry for the OT.

Cheers,

Dani

you now what police use to sedue combativ or threatning people?

They use pepper spray or CS gas if you feel so unsafe a knife is by far the worst thing to use or have..

Ok .. thanks for the heads up Dani .. We have a Cabellas store where I live and I will pick some pepper spray up. CS gas is illegal in Canada.

[Guest carlsbadrolex]

Enough of the politics...I want to know about the system that pages you when you're car doors are open and tells you the hood of your car is open as well!!

I have the Clifford Matrix50.5x as well as the GPS 210C gps tracking system. If my truck is stolen, or if I loan it to a friend I can log in to a website and track the truck.

6 Channel Remote Start/Security/Keyless Entry System

Confirms commands and system triggers on the transceiver LCD screen

Clone-Safe

[Fish]

Nothing wrong with a gun in the hands of a relaxed and well trained person with a good sense of resposibility. The problem with guns is rather that not everybody would do it as correct as you did. Good job!

Edited May 8, 2008 by Fish

[Shundi]

Good for you CBR!

[Corgi]

Are you prepared to go to the ultimate extreme and take another person's life?

If I can say with certitude that me or my family is risking possible death from an impending assault, then yes I will not stop to bash some skulls open good sir.

[POTR]

Very scary but intriguing story. Glad to hear no one got hurt.

A situation I'd never want to be in but I'm sure it was small potatoes to what you'd experienced while in the service. No doubt your instincts took over.

Required admonishment...

In the case of CarlsbadRolex, and a few others... that would be "training to the point of comfortable, near reflex action" in operation, NOT instict.

A simple, but important distinction which should not be lost, ignored, marginalized or disparaged.

And most probably the reason WHY, in this case, that no one was hurt.

[b16a2]

CBR I am glad it turned out ok for you in the end. I can tell by your posts that you are a relaxed person, and with training behind you, all the better.

Speaking generally here, what would make me wary of drawing a firearm, or knife in this situation is the unpredicatbility that it can cause in the other person. As a martial artist of many years, I have learnt that it can often be the ones that don't train who can sometimes be the hardest to predict, as they often move in very random and unpredicatble ways (part of the reason why Bruce developed JKD - free plug haha) So after reading my waffle for the last paragraph, what I mean is that as a relaxed and trained person, who had full composure, and control of the situation, it could have gone one of two ways;

They could have done as they did and surrendered

They could have pulled a gun and shot at you, possibly harming you.

The second scenario would have been beyond the control of anyone, and in fact although you were trained and compsosed, in drawing the gun, you have created a less than favourable situation.

This post is by no means a statement against the actions that you did CBR, and in fact I admire your actions, as it is true that training can help combat theft - with power comes responsibility. My post does however raise the concerns that I have when faced with someone in the street who is adversely affecting my interests. For instance, I would have no problem in defending myself against multiple attackers, yet, if I do, I am playing a game of probabilities that one of them doesn't have a firearm or a knife, because that kind of thing can rapidly change the odds to go against you.

[Guest carlsbadrolex]

b16a2, I completely understand what you are saying. And I fully agree with you. I also respect your training JKD is VERY interesting art.

All of the training the military, private organizations and civilian law enforcement can offer will never be able to make some-one fully comfortable with the idea of putting yourself in a situation such as this. It is live experiences that do that. Without too much detail, I can tell you that the first time I was put on a check point just outside the green zone I was scared to death. EVERY person was reaching under their clothing. Every person appeared to be strapped with explosives. It was to the point that these "abnormalities" became the norm, and the entire focus of our attention were other "signs"... Such as an unusual amount of sweat, there is a "look" in ones eyes when they are doing something they shouldnt be. And the look of a person who is prepared to take their own lives and the lives of those around them is about as eery as anything you could ever see in a psycho thriller.

What I am saying, is that you are correct. Any time you change your position from one of an observer in to one of a weapon enriched environment you are playing the odds. I had watched these two from my window for a good 2 minutes, I knew where the wrenches that they had were. I knew that they did not APPEAR to have guns tucked in their waste band because they were wearing loose fitting t-shirts.

What I did not know, and I was aware of this going in was if they were alone, or if there was someone else watching the situation. That was why I went out the back of my building and walked around from the other direction. I was looking to see if there were any occupied vehicles that looked out of place. I could have VERY EASILY missed someone and been attacked from the rear.

I guess looking back, this could have been a slightly worse situation than I first thought. But its a moot point now. My employer stated yesterday that I was never to bring a firearm to work again!

Thanks everyone, and I truly wish we ALL lived in a place where there was NEVER a need for such actions!