KB Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Due to the meds I have had to take as treatment of my tumor my weight blew out by 30 kilo's. I was told by doc's that until they could get the tumor under control there was no point in my trying to lose weight as it would take a change in my medical intake to acheive any real weight loss. Well 6 weeks back they altered my med program and I started tackling this temporary obesity, to date I have lost just over 10kgs and a lot of this is thanks to food supplements. Instead of breakfast and lunch I have a supplement shake and snack on fresh fruit and nuts, I also have an exercise program that I devised myself (gym instructor many moons ago) and am currently hoping to be at my goal weight by Christmas this year. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Due to the meds I have had to take as treatment of my tumor my weight blew out by 30 kilo's. I was told by doc's that until they could get the tumor under control there was no point in my trying to lose weight as it would take a change in my medical intake to acheive any real weight loss. Well 6 weeks back they altered my med program and I started tackling this temporary obesity, to date I have lost just over 10kgs and a lot of this is thanks to food supplements. Instead of breakfast and lunch I have a supplement shake and snack on fresh fruit and nuts, I also have an exercise program that I devised myself (gym instructor many moons ago) and am currently hoping to be at my goal weight by Christmas this year. Ken Hi Ken! Great job! My hats off to you for your strength and perseverance! GOOD LUCK to you! Hike~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mentalist Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 (edited) aside from steroids (which will damage your kidneys) That is nonsense. Diuretics will screw up your kidneys, more so than steroids. The only serious potential side effect of anabolics steroids is liver damage but that is confined to the strong oral steroids in large dosages over long periods. After cessation of use, liver values normalise pretty quickly by themselves. Kidney damage is a remote possibility but highly, highly unlikely. Edited June 18, 2008 by The Mentalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajoesmith Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Want to put on muscle and go to the gym? one word TUNA! and lots of it,natural, its fish, and is loaded full of protein and natural creatine! Get it in ya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnagy Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 doc, If you are using protein supplements and creatine, let me make one thing EXTREMELY clear. You must have a physical exam with urine and blood test after 3 or 4 months, to make sure you are not causing damage to your kidneys. EVERY serious competitive weight lifter or bodybuilder knows this, but many amateurs do not. About 1 week BEFORE having the physical, discontinue any creatine supplements, as these will throw off the results and cause an unusually high creatinin reading. My sister is both a registered dietician and physical therapist and has studied sports nutrition extensively. As you begin weight training, your body becomes more efficient in utilizing the protein in your diet to build muscle. However you may want to add a protein shake with 20-30grams of protein following your workout if you are building up. A rule of thumb for weight training (provided you are in good health) is to consume 1.5g-2g of protein per 1kg of bodyweight. So if you weigh 220lbs (100kg) you would consume 150-200g/day of protein -- this figure includes all food you consume during the day including the supplement. Personally, I would suggest the low end of that range. As for the wide range of supplements out there claiming to provide anabolic benefits (i.e. increase muscle building), aside from steroids (which will damage your kidneys), the only supplement shown to have significant verifiable benefit is creatine -- you can read up on the subject, if you take a look at research by Dr. William Evans (http://www.sportsnutritionworkshop.com/evans.htm). As for myself, i weight train and after using creatine monohydrate (and not really enjoying trying to dissolve it in water and that not so pleasant taste) i switched to cee (MRI CE2) and have been happy with the results. I also take a whole food vitamin (not a megadose), fish oil, and a supplement for joints. I eat a ton of veggies, balanced with lean protein and go light on carbs. Before workouts I eat a half or full powerbar and drink lo-cal FRS which provides 1/2 cup of coffee's worth of caffeine. Good luck, and DO be careful, there's a lot of junk out there masquarading as nutrition or loaded with caffeine which is expensive and should be avoided. like i said,caffeine and creatine are the only things that work.you can calculate all the grams of this and that but if you do not constantly try to lift more weight you won't go anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc savage Posted June 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Well, so far it's really hard to say what the creatine and HMB is doing for me. At first my muscle soreness lasted FAR longer than normal (4-5 days), but it was a new routine with a lot more reps than I normally do so I can't blame the supplements. That phase is over now; my last workout (Friday) was just as intense or more so and the ache was gone by Sunday. I'm really happy about the changes I've made in my diet! My "normal" pattern was to skip breakfast 90% of the time, skip lunch 85% of the time, and eat a large evening meal. I'm not sure how I ever thought that was healthy... at most meals I would be uncomfortably full by the time my appetite died down. Now, I eat six times a day and I never let myself get hungry. It makes things a lot more convenient having a variety of protein-rich snacks handy at all times, here's what I keep in my home office: So first thing in the morning (when I never feel like eating) I grab an EAS caf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSlayer Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 By intense cardio do you mean HIIT? If so then a protein rich and moderate carb meal would be the way to go (I'm assuming you're trying to burn body fat?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdkno Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Its amazing how the "snake oil" business has evolved. 98% of supplements are worthless. Of the 2% that have value, their value is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. In competition where every last bit counts that 2% could be the difference between winning and loosing but outside of that no one would ever notice the 2% difference between two people. As for steroids not being harmful, well I am not up to speed on them in any way shape or form to make that call. All I know is what I know from experience and as a child(between the ages of 1 and 3) I was on Pretazone or Prednisone, or some steroid that started with a P and ended with a zone and according to my doctor I have permanent liver damage from it. Not really complaining much seeing as before they put me on it they did not know if I was going to live or die but either way it still left its mark. Not to get off topic but who knows what supplement could have caused this? Its Lou Ferrigno at the premier of the new Hulk movie. here is the link where you can find the photo direct from Yahoo so it is not like someone photoshopped it. http://movies.yahoo.com/summer-movies/Incr.../361/9380/#info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc savage Posted July 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 By intense cardio do you mean HIIT? If so then a protein rich and moderate carb meal would be the way to go (I'm assuming you're trying to burn body fat?) I am trying to burn fat in the short term, but mainly I just want to increase my overall fitness level. We had deaths from first heart attacks on both sides of my family (my mom's dad died at 55, then my father at 52). Its amazing how the "snake oil" business has evolved. 98% of supplements are worthless. Of the 2% that have value, their value is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. In competition where every last bit counts that 2% could be the difference between winning and loosing but outside of that no one would ever notice the 2% difference between two people. Of course supplements are an extremely profitable business with a rich history of dubious claims and false advertising, but these are basically large doses of compounds that have been scientifically proven to have a positive effect. I don't think you can back up these numbers, but if creatine and HMB gave me a 2% advantage I'll take it. As for steroids not being harmful, well I am not up to speed on them in any way shape or form to make that call. All I know is what I know from experience and as a child(between the ages of 1 and 3) I was on Pretazone or Prednisone, or some steroid that started with a P and ended with a zone and according to my doctor I have permanent liver damage from it. Not really complaining much seeing as before they put me on it they did not know if I was going to live or die but either way it still left its mark. Sorry to hear about the liver damage. I had a severe allergic reaction on my hands once, and my doc shot me up with steroids "just to see if it would help". Doctors really suck sometimes. Not to get off topic but who knows what supplement could have caused this? Its Lou Ferrigno at the premier of the new Hulk movie. here is the link where you can find the photo direct from Yahoo so it is not like someone photoshopped it. http://movies.yahoo.com/summer-movies/Incr.../361/9380/#info Yikes. That aint sweat, kids! Maybe he heard a baby crying? Steroids and supplements are two completely different things, people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mentalist Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) Prednisone is a corticosteroid and is not in the same class of drugs as anabolic steroids. A steroid is any compound that has a 'sterol' group in its molecular structure. Cholesterol could also be deemed to be a 'steroid'. HIIT should be a good adjunct to any bodybuilding program as it keeps you lean without causing the skinny runner's physique that prolonged cardio can cause. As long as your protein levels are high and your carb levels are low to moderate you should be able to gain lean mass albeit not as quick as if more carbs were involved but then you would end up fat too. HMB is very good insofar as it prevents breakdown of muscle during dieting or intense training. It has a similar effect to Winstrol in that regard. Not a builder, more of a maintainer. Nitrous drinks are fantastic. Treat them like a glorified version of Red Bull however they are great way to get creatine and BCAA's into your bloodstream prior to training. Don't take them every day as per the instructions but only take it on training days and you will get a superb workout and it will last longer. Personally, Met-Rx Amped is the best supplement I've ever used. Period. Unbelieveable stuff. Lou looks like he's got early stage gynecomastia. Which is odd considering he doesn't look like he's on the gear anymore. Basically, he's taken so much gear, probaly something like testosterone or anadrol without taking an anti-aromatase, that this excess testosterone has converted itself into estrogen and he's started growing breasts. Unless it's bad, he won't need surgery just a couse of Tamoxifen or Arimidex and some Clomid to normalise his natural testosterone. Edited July 1, 2008 by The Mentalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blade007 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 i used to use MetRX back in the day... it was ok, but you really DO have to work out. Also tried GABA from a company called Chemical Warfare, that was some very good SH!T... (/me gets nostalgic) Now I am trying to burn off all the flab, quite a U turn.. Good luck buddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc savage Posted July 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 HIIT should be a good adjunct to any bodybuilding program as it keeps you lean without causing the skinny runner's physique that prolonged cardio can cause. As long as your protein levels are high and your carb levels are low to moderate you should be able to gain lean mass albeit not as quick as if more carbs were involved but then you would end up fat too. I just bike to work "intensely" 3 times a week (non strength-training days). It approximates a HIIT workout between the hills and dales, and conveniently the ride home is much more uphill so I'm drenched in sweat by the time I get there. I really can't stand the boredom of gym cardio, but if my bike times keep improving I might have to go that route. HMB is very good insofar as it prevents breakdown of muscle during dieting or intense training. It has a similar effect to Winstrol in that regard. Not a builder, more of a maintainer. It's used in the treatment of wasting diseases too. Again I have to say that I really like Betagen; it's really convenient and doesn't taste half bad (kinda like Tang). I learned that it's good mixed with EAS chocolate 100% whey and ice water; tastes like a Terry's Chocolate Orange. Nitrous drinks are fantastic. Treat them like a glorified version of Red Bull however they are great way to get creatine and BCAA's into your bloodstream prior to training. Don't take them every day as per the instructions but only take it on training days and you will get a superb workout and it will last longer. Personally, Met-Rx Amped is the best supplement I've ever used. Period. Unbelieveable stuff. So Amped is a protein+nitric oxide product? Do you like it for the convenience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mentalist Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 So Amped is a protein+nitric oxide product? Do you like it for the convenience? No, Amped is a nitrous drink but contains creatine malate, AAKG, BCAA's and caffeine. It's used as a workout support drink as it gives tremendous pumps (and I mean AMAZING), energy and focus and it also increase endurance and overall strength. The first time I used it I was off my face for 6 hours. It gets you wired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mentalist Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 i used to use MetRX back in the day... it was ok, but you really DO have to work out. Also tried GABA from a company called Chemical Warfare, that was some very good SH!T... (/me gets nostalgic) Now I am trying to burn off all the flab, quite a U turn.. Good luck buddy GABA is weird stuff. I used it extensively back in the nineties. It gives you pins and needles within 10 minutes of using it and it also allows you to get more quality sleep. I used to have 4 hours of sleep on it and feel totally refreshed. Shame that it's been pulled since a lot of people have been using to make GHB (liquid ecstasy). It's still around but it's rarer than it used to be. It's a very good GH precursor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc savage Posted July 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 No, Amped is a nitrous drink but contains creatine malate, AAKG, BCAA's and caffeine. It's used as a workout support drink as it gives tremendous pumps (and I mean AMAZING), energy and focus and it also increase endurance and overall strength. The first time I used it I was off my face for 6 hours. It gets you wired. Sounds interesting.... I've swore off stimulants lately but I think I'll give it a try; I can see the extra energy helping me through those last few reps. EAS only makes nitric oxide in a pill form, and they add ornithine and arginine. I tried it yesterday per the label (4 tabs in the morning and 4 more 30 min. before my upper body workout) and did get a much bigger and longer lasting pump than usual, but why is that a good thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mentalist Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Sounds interesting.... I've swore off stimulants lately but I think I'll give it a try; I can see the extra energy helping me through those last few reps. EAS only makes nitric oxide in a pill form, and they add ornithine and arginine. I tried it yesterday per the label (4 tabs in the morning and 4 more 30 min. before my upper body workout) and did get a much bigger and longer lasting pump than usual, but why is that a good thing? It increases the flow of blood into the muscle, carrying in more nutrients and oxygen and flushing out more waste products. It also increases vascularity as a result which gives an enhanced look to the muscle and more volume. If you don't get a good pump, your muscle hasn't been worked hard enough. A good pump is a sign of a good, intense workout. NOS helps you achieve that quicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc savage Posted July 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 I skipped the NOS at yesterday's workout (forgot to take it actually) and it did seem like there was more lactic acid buildup; towards the end of my sets it was the burning that was stopping me and not actual fatigue. I'm wondering if I'm getting enough protein; you get vastly different numbers depending on who you ask. I am packing on some muscle, but I'm trying to get fit--not huge--and I have a pretty good amount of fat to burn. Things are already improving after only two weeks. Instead of dragging myself to the gym and trying to get it over with, I'm looking forward to my next workout so I can improve my form and push myself harder. In the mornings, I hop on the bike without thinking twice about taking the car. I used to use the very lowest gears to make it up the steep hils, now I rarely shift out of top gear. My diet has never been healthier, and the more junk food I turn down the easier it gets. It's become almost automatic for me to eat healthy snacks in moderation, when before I could eat a full size bag of Doritos before I even realized it. Of course I have no way of knowing what effect the supplements have had, but I can at least say that taking them helps keep me in the right mindset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squill Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 your body assimilates 30 grams of protien at a time Do you have a study to prove this? And like said, alot of supplements are no more than snake oil...IMO only things that work, and from my experience are Mono, Protein & Gear.... Any for the price people pay for 3 months worth of supplements like NO Explode you could run Prop & Tren for 8 weeks....I know which will gain more muscle.... Pop over to www.muscletalk.co.uk for some friendly tips & Banter, my username is Squill on there as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMZ Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 After several false starts, I am jumping back into physical fitness with both feet, and I figured why not give myself every advantage (within reason) that science has to offer. It didn't hurt that I get this stuff wholesale; here's about half of what I bought today: This is just the stuff I am keeping at work. It seems like we have a good amount of fitness enthusiasts here, I was wondering was your take on OTC supplements? All that advice aside (and there is quite the opinion in here) I am retired athlete still working out 4 times a week and the first question is what goals do you want to achieve? Are you trying to bulk up, lose weight, get lean, or just get fit? AND FOR HEAVENS SAKE STAY AWAY FROM THE ROIDS!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMZ Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 It increases the flow of blood into the muscle, carrying in more nutrients and oxygen and flushing out more waste products. It also increases vascularity as a result which gives an enhanced look to the muscle and more volume. If you don't get a good pump, your muscle hasn't been worked hard enough. A good pump is a sign of a good, intense workout. NOS helps you achieve that quicker. Doesn't help you achieve it quicker, it helps prolong it. MRI makes the best NO2 on the market called NO2 Black. It is a blood dilator that promotes the exchange of oxygen to blood which essentially gives you your "pump". More blood in the muscles the bigger the pump. It takes about a week and a half to enter the system so whatever immediate effects you feel is purely mental. I use this stuff and it is great!! I agree with most that the majority f the sups out there are crap, but just like the REP world, for every 5 bad ones there is a gem out there. If you do the NO2 sup drink tons of water (as you should with all sups) and stack with CE2.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc savage Posted July 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 All that advice aside (and there is quite the opinion in here) I am retired athlete still working out 4 times a week and the first question is what goals do you want to achieve? Are you trying to bulk up, lose weight, get lean, or just get fit? AND FOR HEAVENS SAKE STAY AWAY FROM THE ROIDS!!!!!!!! All of the above; except maybe the bulking up part. I do expect to make some size gains but that is not my main goal. Steroids are right out, I'm not trying to be Mr. Olympia (or win the Tour de France for that matter). You might as well tell me not to get implants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slai Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 I take protein, ZMA, and MSM (thanks lani for the MSM recommendation!). Don't see the need for anything more since I work out just for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc savage Posted July 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Do you have a study to prove this? I'm not aware of any proof of this either. There are too many variables (type of protein, weight, metabolism, activity level), but it does seem that there is not much harm in getting too much protein. http://www.sportsci.org/jour/9901/rbk.html And like said, alot of supplements are no more than snake oil...IMO only things that work, and from my experience are Mono, Protein & Gear.... HMB Creatine CLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squill Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 Mono is creatine.......... And I have never bothered with the other two so cant comment I think people put too much emphasis on their supps and not on their diet as a whole. Every supp under the sun will not make up for a bad diet.. p.s(I did forget to add Clen & ECA to the mix of decent supps that work for fat loss) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 Forget all supplements.....get yourself an AP ROO......guaranteed will build awesome biceps in a couple of weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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