Urgent - T crowns... please read - Urgent

[t]

i am relax

it is easy to copy any project... but it is difficult to build a complete new project... and we have build a complete new crown... it could fit or couldn

[fishgodeep]

important for me is... that you guys all know this mistake of the teeths and none of you will attack me anytime about this mistake.

T - you have my respect and support, I understand personally the costs of these types of projects - especially when you have to spend all the money yourself..

I hope that people do not attack you - the T-60 crown is exceptionally well made and does the job perfect - it's not as if you ran off with money or scammed anybody.

You certainly wont be getting my crowns returned - if you make T-48 or not.

I hope you can sell more on RWG and maybe other forums - even if it's people suppoting you enough to get some money back and make the T-48 crown.

If these are as good as T-60 then you could charge maybe

[t]

i would never charge anyone 50euro for a crown... i am not a scammer like others... 50euro is totaly overpriced!!!!!!!

i don

[PAMman]

My gen 005G, gen 116F and gen 111F crown (directly from Panerai) all have 48 teeth, as does the manual wind 1.2mm stem Ti crown from Kruzer. However the SS auto-fit 0.9mm crown from Kruzer seems to have 52 teeth, at least after the third count I'm pretty sure that it's 52.

For the record, if a new run of 48 teeth crowns is going to happen I am totally happy to pay significantly more. Don't forget that we now know that the quality and fit is good so there is no other unknown aspect to take a chance on.

[kye_lin]

My gen SS manual crown has 48 teeth..

But sod it.. I am keeping the T-crowns I just bought.. they look great and no one is gonna bloody start count crown teeth on my PAMs.... they look so good already.. who cares about crown teeth!!

I think we should all just live with the existing T-crowns... T has put in so much effort making them.... I think we can all live with extra 12 teeth on our 2mm crowns... this is the least we can do to show our appreciation for a fellow member that go out of his way for the community here....

KEEP THE T-CROWNS!

[Snrubb]

I agree. Keep the T-Crowns!

Thanks again T. I'll be placing an order for more crowns shortly!

[Tom Hawkes]

Oh boy.. Just noticed this thread..

I might have to stand up now..

As I was helping out in the beginning with some 2D drawings I also read that the crowns need to have 60 teeth. As I was drawing I noticed that the angle between the teeth seemed to be slightly off when compared to some crown pictures and fine compared to other pictures..

Since I told everyone involved that I have no further knowledge of the exact differences on the various Panerai models (pre-v, etc..) I pretty much relied on what I read in the original project thread, etc.. It didn't cross my mind though to ask for a picture of a definite gen to count the teeth. I feel awefully stupid now for not saying anything so that other experienced members could have pointed out that the t-crowns need less teeth (which explains the slightly off angle).

However I have to raise my hat to T for beeing such an honest gentleman and discussing transparent for all members this problem and offering such a generous compromise..

[capice]

T...my highest respect for your professional attitude in this sour mistake, taking your loss as a man. Hats off for you.

Jaykeen posted a good sample to count the teeth, stick it on a piece of glass and do the counting with a fineliner. See also the replies from Rolli and Kye-lin.

What I would suggest: why not ask on the forums the interest for the right crowns, then you will know the amount needed and calculate your price including the wholesaleprice for the wrong crowns.

This way all buyers will contribute a bit to soften your loss.

I will definetely take a few.

There are a few members here on RWG owning gen Pams, maybe they could chime in?

Uncle Jay, Golfman?

Hope it works out....

[Hongkytonkman]

T,

I've also received your T-60 crowns yesterday,

and apart from the 60teeth(which I dont' reallly give a *hit about),

these are just superb!

I truly thank your full support in the whole process from start to finish + opening the 60teeth issue.

I'll certainly be purchasing a few more as my new projects are soon to start You certainly have my word for that!

Cheers

[Dani]

what a can see from this thread is 4 pages of answers that is to no help and 1 page that is helping this issue

It seems alot of peps here have gens so it shoud be easy for them to answer and all others just stfup.

[V]

Just makes me wonder now how gen are the Turkish's 'gen' crowns on ebay

[Dani]

Just makes me wonder now how gen are the Turkish's 'gen' crowns on ebay

Its 48 on my auto crown from ebay.

I have 3 of them.They are gen but from kruz not turkey guy did get a pvd from turkey guy.

edit my two from Ajo has over 52 it seems but my one from Kruz is 48.

Cheers

[cc]

yes.....a...n...d.........whats the result...???????????????

Just counted a couple crowns. i started them with a sharpie mark on one teeth.

Gen 112J - 48 teeth

Kruzer "Gen" crown - 52 teeth

Gen 088G - ? i couldnt meet with my friend tonight (maybe tomorrow).

i post the results of the 88 when i find out.

[Dani]

Just counted a couple crowns. i started them with a sharpie mark on one teeth.

Gen 112J - 48 teeth

Kruzer "Gen" crown - 52 teeth

Gen 088G - ? i couldnt meet with my friend tonight (maybe tomorrow).

i post the results of the 88 when i find out.

this is fun

I have one that i now was from Kruz it has 48 counted 2 times.

My two from Ajo included in a purchase has 52+ who he bought them from i don't now.

I think its a easy way to explain this they are gen but faulty production crowns.

[cc]

this is fun

I have one that i now was from Kruz it has 48 counted 2 times.

My two from Ajo included in a purchase has 52+ who he bought them from i don't now.

I think its a easy way to explain this they are gen but faulty production crowns.

i purchased the 2 Kruzer crowns together when W originally offered them a year back. i'm am certain it was from this first batch that was avaliable.

[rolli]

never.....

it's a fact.

mr. ferretti ( also well known as ferretti straps ) is a well known collector in italy,

and he bought the complete old panerai stock from signora panerai.

only VanniC from italy has the permission to sell the parts.

and i cannot believe that ferretti or vannic sold the crowns to the turkish guy for under euro 50,--

i think the turkey crowns are fake.

rolli

Just makes me wonder now how gen are the Turkish's 'gen' crowns on ebay

[V]

They are gen but from kruz not turkey guy did get a pvd from turkey guy.

I thought kruz bought a big quantity from the turkish guy for a better price for the forum...

You know what I think.. science fiction but maybe true...

The turkish guy got ahold of the pre-v designs that float around the forums.. With them he could replicate the tube part of the crown but he couldn't count the teeth to make the correct number..

He only had one side of the crown.. he then multiplied that x 4 to find out the teeth.. but he probably counted one more hence the 4 teeth more than the original.

[Dani]

I thought kruz bought a big quantity from the turkish guy for a better price for the forum...

You know what I think.. science fiction but maybe true...

The turkish guy got ahold of the pre-v designs that float around the forums.. With them he could replicate the tube part of the crown but he couldn't count the teeth to make the correct number..

He only had one side of the crown.. he then multiplied that x 4 to find out the teeth.. but he probably counted one more hence the 4 teeth more than the original.

Strange that one is 48 then?

And the 2 i got from Ajo is 52.

Either way they look great and fits and feels gen so no worrys from me.

I see people buy them for 200$ and i paid much less like 60 i think.

Also the PVD from Turkey dude is very good finish and seems not to same as the ss he offers

This game things are strange,hehe

[dluddy]

Well as I recall it, when Kruzer found the Turkish guy's crowns we had lengthy discussions and found the design to be the same as an earlier Panerai crown. We could never verify their authenticity but they looked better than anything we had ever seen design wise. I have a number of them installed now and after comparing to actual genuines, they look damn good.

The advantage of T's crowns is that they can be used in more cases and from the ones I have seen, they look damn good installed.

[UncleJay]

I've taken a pic that I hope may help. Top is an auto, bottom left is an A HW, bottom right is a B HW. BTW, I really don't care how many teeth they have so long as it fits properly.

[vlydog]

BTW, I really don't care how many teeth they have so long as it fits properly.

I agree with UJ. At the end of the day, who cares about how many teeth your crown has? Relax and be thankful. I am more concerned about my own teeth.

[rolli]

each has 48 teeth............for good order's sake....

rolli

I've taken a pic that I hope may help. Top is an auto, bottom left is an A HW, bottom right is a B HW. BTW, I really don't care how many teeth they have so long as it fits properly.

[UncleJay]

Here are shots from a J series HW and Auto.

HW 48

Auto 48

[Watchmeister]

I will second Jay's comment. Irrespective of the number of teeth they do look really good. T is a complete gentleman for bringing this up to the forum membership

And to address the the Turkey crowns again the ones I did as a group buy are from the person in Turkey. He is the same person who sold dozens of gen Omega bracelets, crowns, etc. And I did at the time check out the large authorized repair person whose inventory he bought out. He did exist. But those who don't want to believe it shouldn't. At the time we debated it everyone came to their own conclusions. I satisfied myself by measuring out the crown including overall crown tab sizing and depth, fitting one into a gen case and crown guard combo and actually destroying (unsheathing the spring loaded portion) of one of my crowns directly from Panerai to compare mechanisms. If they are copies they are the best copies ever made and they were far cheaper than Palp's which had no spring loaded mechanism. And for those who own gen Panerai - you know that it ain't the rubber tubing in a gen crown guard which gives the crown/crown guard its feel (the two gen cg's I bought separately don't even seem to have any tubing) it is the finishing of the pin and pin tube and the sprung mechanism on the crown. To give you some of my references:

Recent picture of stuff I typically have laying around - gen and Jimmy cases, crowns of all varieties, gen and Jimmy cg's, etc.

Here is a gen crown and Jimmy case which has a perfectly sized case tube (the gen crowns and "Turkey" crowns depicted below slide in perfectly):

Contemporary gen handwind crown:

Enesafe Crowns:

And for good measure - Palp 2.1 and 1.9:

I can't comment on Ferretti and his buying out all the inventory. I can tell you that a number of sub-contractors were left high and dry when Panerai was sold (and thus the sub-contractor theory may be valid). But as for Vanni - he turned out to be full of it. His NOS ain't so NOS. His dials typically have markings or scratches, do not come in gen dial cases and his NOS tritium handsets were not NOS or entirely Tritium. All sets came with luminor hands combined with tritium ones. Of the six 03 sets he sold I can account for four sets and not one was entirely tritium. I had them analyzed by a skilled re-lumer on this forum. I like the guy and hope it was an honest mistake but we will never know.

Now back to the subject at hand:

I continue to believe that crowns vary from model to model, etc. It took Vendome 2-3 years after they purchased the Company to standardize anything. Having said that I am sorry for any misleading of T on my part. And I do hope that folks will either step up for the next round if he makes them or for the original. And T - you can count me in for two of the whichever you elect to sell. I applaud all your efforts.

[ubiquitous]

kruz-

That would definitely be the issue with subcontracting parts out; it's difficult to standardize anything.

As a brand example, look at Rolex! It took them many, many decades to bring everything in house; even after everything was integrated and consolidated, they still have issues of inconsistency, and this is with their new stuff!

So... Who's to really know?