AmStaFF Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Pam Experts i need your Help, is this a Swiss or a Asian Movement? and a little bit bigger I bought it from DSN than Swiss. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Maybe a swis base but asian bridges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Asian & Swiss mixed. This is the best you can get. No 100% Swiss movement has a dagger swan neck other than those from Officine Panerai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendofSpeed Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 agreed... it is what the boards would call Swiss... but it definitely has asian parts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 btw: the screw from the swanneck doesn't touch the regulator... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 i have told it many times... the swan neck on all rep movements is not 100% functional like on a swiss movement. A swan neck on swiss movement is like a spring, when you screw it down the swan neck will press against the regulator and the regulator will move... i am not 100% sure but The Zigmeister should know it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poopypants Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 where did this one come from?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakemaster Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 They're all Asian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 All Asian IMO. Even the new so called generic 6497's that DSN has with the waffle pattern on the bridges look a little ratty to me. Tourby, who specializes in 6497's has said recently that he thinks ALL of these including the generic and non-brand with PAM style bridges including those on ebay are fakes. And of course he is pretty tied in with the SOPROD factory and all the other know supply house sources for the stocks that are surely genuine. Ever since the ETA autos started showing up as fakes with fake stamps, etc. alot of people are thinking that the old so called 6497 hybrids are also no more and those are all Asian too now. Maybe, maybe not... Not to get too off point but I have to say I never really understood the hybrid PAM concept for these other than that it allowed dealers to charge more money for the watches. LOL. I mean all the stuff that really matters in the movement was known to be Asian (balance, regulator, co*ck, hairspring) and yet people paid extra for supposed Swiss base plates, wheels & pinions. Wouldn't one prefer it the other way around? I guess it depends on what was supposedly Swiss and what was supposedly Asian in the movement but it still always seemed a little suspect to me. If they were truly Swiss I never understood why the Asians wouldn't have just replaced the barrel bridge and the wheel bridge with the PAM style bridges and the just manufator the appropriate swan neck assembly to slip directly on the balance [censored]. Go figure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 This swan neck cannot be functional at the moment because the regulation index is trapped underneath, it shouldn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capice Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 |It really looks good, almost 100% Eta , different bridges....but I noticed the teeth of the centerwheel are bigger then of a gen etamvt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmStaFF Posted September 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Thank you for your answers guys I understand now more and more, every day I learn about this. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydip Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 I'm on the look out for a Pan and my dealer says this is his own Swiss movement. Is this the same movement as the first picture?? Any comments welcome, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 And what about the silly blue screws ??. Tourby always told us that the blue screws are only blue on the surface and not in the part where you put your screw driver. Carpe Diem Cats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweattdogg Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 I'm on the look out for a Pan and my dealer says this is his own Swiss movement. Is this the same movement as the first picture?? Any comments welcome, thanks. This movement doesn't have the dagger on the regulator. Again all these are either a mix of asian/swiss parts. The only true 100% swiss movements are the ones with square bridges. Just go with what you like the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmStaFF Posted September 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 And what about the silly blue screws ??. Tourby always told us that the blue screws are only blue on the surface and not in the part where you put your screw driver. The Pic's in the Panerai Catalog shows completely Blue Screws, i scan that and post the Pic's later 20 min later the pics the automatic Movements shows not full completely Blue Screws cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capice Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 I find it hard to tell but here are some comparisons Amstaff's pic where I marked the eledged flaws but to me it is hard to tell, 99,99999% swiss here's a pic of a gen Panerai 6497-2, only the teeth on the centerwheel, crownwheel and barrelwheel look different to me, maybe the holes with the jewels.... As for the blue screws, as I understood correctly from a watchmaker, the color is obtained with heat for the complete screw, not just the top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Any thing from china is either Swinese at best, the Chiss ones are not bad though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capice Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 that's about right Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 |It really looks good, almost 100% Eta , different bridges....but I noticed the teeth of the centerwheel are bigger then of a gen etamvt. I noticed this difference on my watches also, but it is a result that the bigger teeth are on the 18k and the smaller ones are on the 21.6k movement. the balace wheel looks a little bigger, maybe its a low beat swiss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmurphy926 Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 I'm still in the learning process on these movements so pardon this question if it's stupid, but isn't the shock protection on the OP's movement NOT the incabloc protection found on the gen? I got my Asian dagger swan neck from Andrew. It does have incabloc protection, but it has something else that differs from the gen and other movements such as the OP's. It's the method in which the spring attaches to the regulator. Sorry, I don't know what it's called, but I circled it in red. BTW - Although the regulator screw is too short to cover the entire range of the regulator scale, it works perfectly. It does put enough pressure on the dagger to move it when the screw is turned counter-clockwise to speed up the movement. I was able to regulate this watch to +2 sec/week (not day, week). I just wish I could find a longer screw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 the weehl is different because one is 18.000 and gen is 21.600... 21.600 movement use different parts the winding wheels are different when you screw it down... you will see that the hole of asian wheel is "hexagonal" with 6 edges and the gen Swiss Unitas is "rectangular" with 4 edges. the genuine swan neck is a spring... when you screw it down... the regulator will pressed up... but never will you have a hole between screw and regulator (like on reps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornma Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 hi Sorry for the newbie question. When buying the pam reps I presume I should ignore any marked as Swiss Unitas, save some money and get the cheaper Asian ones? So for example theres no reason to get the ultimate 127 fiddy over the $190 version? Or am I missing something? Thanks Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmurphy926 Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 the genuine swan neck is a spring... when you screw it down... the regulator will pressed up... but never will you have a hole between screw and regulator (like on reps... I believe you t. And I know you know these movements much better than I. All I can say is that my Asian swan neck doesn't do the gap between the screw and dagger thing. I have screwed the screw all the way in and then backed it out to regulate it. The "spring" part of the swan neck stays in contact with the dagger and the dagger stays in contact with the screw the entire time. I know I have seen pictures several times that show exactly what you are talking about. I even have a sterile movement I got off the bay that does this, so I absolutely believe what you say is true, but for whatever reason, I have one that doesn't do this. I think like anything else in this hobby, there is a pretty high degree of variance in parts. Not all are equal. Sometimes we get lucky, sometimes we get crap. I'm wondering if someone were to lift the spring part of the swan neck over the dagger and force it up toward the top of the movement, if this would bend it slightly and put more pressure on the dagger eliminating the problem...Just a thought. I'll try it on my sterile ebay movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootall Posted September 6, 2008 Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 (edited) It's a Swiss Base, with Asian cosmetics added on. This is not an Asian clone. Edited September 6, 2008 by tootall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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