Member interaction

[adrenalin]

Greetings all,

I need some input. I contacted an RWG member on the forum that had a watch to sell. I have purchased other watches from other members and have allways had a excellent lines of communications during the transactions. I have allways been forthcoming in my expectations, as they have been in theirs. In all I have had a great experience... there are some great guys here!

I recently contacted a member (good standing, no reputation, seemed reasonable) about a watch, agreed upon a price/ shipping etc... I understand the policy of holding items until funds clear--it makes sense. I paypal-ed the funds and they cleared after the apropriate time. I have since emailed the member informing them as such, confirming shipping address and the like. I have heard nothing. No email, no PM... nothing. I figured life gets crazy and its difficulty to get to the computer at times. I have sent a total of 3 emails with not a single response. It has been 3 days since the funds have cleared.

How long do you guys typically wait before contacting paypal? I really dont want to do that, I just really want the watch. Any help would be apreciated.

Thanks,

-K

[Stephane]

I'm sorry for your difficulties but as PP claims can be open within the 45 days, pls wait.

Try to sort everything out and be patient.

Who knows, a bunch of bad thinks can happen right now in the seller's life and could be sorted in the next 48 hours.

The last thing we need is PP disputes in this community.

Cheers

Stephane

[Corgi]

You have to be very patient with this hobby. He seems to be a member with a good reputation so I would definitely give him the benefit of the doubt here.

For your own safety, and the safety of this hobby and community, please do not file a PayPal dispute. If worse comes to worse you can always make a separate thread about it.

[adrenalin]

I know better than to air 'dirty laundy' in public. I specifically didnt mention names, watch types etc... I am trying to give the benifit of the doubt here. The problem is that all of the other folks I have been dealing with have been so good, when somebody doesnt meet the same standard, you begin to wonder. I am not a fly-off-the-handle kind of guy... I allways try to treat others as I would like to be treated. If there was a problem, I would send a quick note--- 'death in the family back in a week'. I understand stuff happens. Like I said, I dont want slander, dont want to get paypal involved, I just would like some comunication with the member. Thanks for your help.

-K

[capice]

I think it's a legit thread Adrenalin pointed out here. Depends on what time is reasonable to wait for any response....If before the buy response was quick, I can imagine that you would expect that after paying response is also quick(I assume the seller didn't state that he went away for a few days).

Maybe a tragedy has happened so be patient for a few more days m8, I'm sure it will be cleared.

[Ztech]

If the seller is a reputable member I'd say give him a few more days to reply. As you said, sometimes life/work/crack addiction get's in the way to our little hobby. If after a few more days there is still no reply. You could ask the mods/admin to give you a hand. If you still have no luck, then you could air all the dirty laundry you want. Good luck.

[RobbieG]

I think it is silly that you would ever have to give someone this wide a berth, but if you are looking for a number I would say 5 working days. No matter what the excuse - death, long weekend, personal emergency, etc. if he doesn'y at least respond to both a PM and an email by then you have to do what you have to do. I am aware that a PP dispute can have negative connotations in this hobby but the guy has got to do what he's got to do to protect his money. So 5 days from the time you first realize you have a problem - and make sure to tell the seller EXACTLY what you intend to do and when if he doesn't respond in both the PM and email. That way there will be no misunderstandings and you will have a paper trail to post in case he does a mind scramble on you and try and make you out the bad guy on the forum. Our reputations are all we have around here. Trust me I should know. If not for mine I would have been banned a long time ago...

[Stephane]

I think it is silly that you would ever have to give someone this wide a berth, but if you are looking for a number I would say 5 working days. No matter what the excuse - death, long weekend, personal emergency, etc. if he doesn'y at least respond to both a PM and an email by then you have to do what you have to do. I am aware that a PP dispute can have negative connotations in this hobby but the guy has got to do what he's got to do to protect his money. So 5 days from the time you first realize you have a problem - and make sure to tell the seller EXACTLY what you intend to do and when if he doesn't respond in both the PM and email. That way there will be no misunderstandings and you will have a paper trail to post in case he does a mind scramble on you and try and make you out the bad guy on the forum. Our reputations are all we have around here. Trust me I should know. If not for mine I would have been banned a long time ago...

Hmmm, that is not a very nice way of seing things.

Nor a good advice either.

Believe me, if something serious happens to one of my kids it's going to take me way more time than 5 working days to answer my mails and PMs.

Still it doesn't mean I'm a scammer.

[Ztech]

I think if you follow the simple rule of, "treat others as you would like to be treated", then things become a lot more simpler. Of course, following this course of action doesn't guarantee anything, but it sure does make living life easier.

[JohnG]

Hmmm, that is not a very nice way of seing things.

Nor a good advice either.

Believe me, if something serious happens to one of my kids it's going to take me way more time than 5 working days to answer my mails and PMs.

Still it doesn't mean I'm a scammer.

I agree.

I can think of many scenarios that would make contact impracticable and a low priority. He might be in the hospital in a coma - the only FACT we know for sure is that we DON'T KNOW.

PP gives you 45 days. There is NO NEED to rush out a file a claim after five days. I would suggest to Adrenalin that he just keep track of his filing dates. If he hears nothing after a total of two weeks I would contact the admin here for help. And as an absolute last resort you have your PP filing. I think that 95% of filings can be avoided - and for reasons already stated great effort should be expended to avoid filing against members here.

That said, I would never advocate "taking one for the team." That is patently absurd. It is your money - and if after all other avenues have been exhausted you have no resolution - you have a right to have your money returned.

[RobbieG]

I'm not advocating filing a PP claim, but I also don't think the guy needs to wait 45 days for a resolution. So you guys tell me - how much is enough time then in exact days? I'm curious.

IMO, 5 days is more than enough time for anyone in any situation to respond. This issue is about common courtesy, not scamming. When I think of every tragedy in my life there has never been a time where I couldn't notify someone what was happening. If something "happened to my kids" or whatever it was, I would have at least told some key people who were waiting on me (like my employer for instance) within 5 days. If I didn't do that how could I expect my boss not to fire me. I had a right to be away, but he had a right to know why and for about how long. This is what Adrenalin is saying and is what he asks for.

I don't care if the sellers Mother got run over by a truck (actually I hope she didn't in all seriousness). But, I GUARANTEE you his boss got a call if she did as did his friends who emailed him since by now. I'm also sure that he would surface if the power company threatened to turn off his lights. Get my point? He can also answer an email from a guy on a watch forum if he is holding his money which is to be distinguished from any other PM or email from people he didn't sell a watch to. If it was just a PM one could justify that he forgot because he didn't log on or something, but email too? Nah. Ah well, my advice, along with all the rest who posted here should be taken with a grain of salt Mr. Adrenalin. After all this is an opinion forum right? You do what you think is right. It's your money.

[JohnG]

I'm not advocating filing a PP claim, but I also don't think the guy needs to wait 45 days for a resolution. So you guys tell me - how much is enough time then in exact days? I'm curious.

IMO, 5 days is more than enough time for anyone in any situation to respond. This issue is about common courtesy, not scamming. When I think of every tragedy in my life there has never been a time where I couldn't notify someone what was happening. If something "happened to my kids" or whatever it was, I would have at least told some key people who were waiting on me (like my employer for instance) within 5 days. If I didn't do that how could I expect my boss not to fire me. I had a right to be away, but he had a right to know why and for about how long. This is what Adrenalin is saying and is what he asks for.

I don't care if the sellers Mother got run over by a truck (actually I hope she didn't in all seriousness). But, I GUARANTEE you his boss got a call if she did as did his friends who emailed him since by now. I'm also sure that he would surface if the power company threatened to turn off his lights. Get my point? He can also answer an email from a guy on a watch forum if he is holding his money which is to be distinguished from any other PM or email from people he didn't sell a watch to. If it was just a PM one could justify that he forgot because he didn't log on or something, but email too? Nah. Ah well, my advice, along with all the rest who posted here should be taken with a grain of salt Mr. Adrenalin. After all this is an opinion forum right? You do what you think is right. It's your money.

I am not sure why you explain what YOU would do - are you suggesting you are the benchmark by which all others should be judged?

What if the guy is in the ICU? Unconscious? Should he have left a note on his home computer to his wife before he went to work: "If I have a car accident of course tell my boss, but ALSO log onto www.RWG.cc and tell my buyer what happened."

You don't know what this guy's situation is anymore than I do. Maybe he has a lame excuse - maybe he has a perfectly reasonable explanation.

What is being suggested is that before filing a claim the OP show as much patience as possible and also that he involve the admin before taking action that can have serious consequences for all involved. I am the first to defend a person's right to exercise this option but it should be done responsibly. PayPal claims arising out of transactions involving counterfeit watches sold on this forum should be avoided if at all possible.

Seems like common sense to me.

[adrenalin]

Guys,

I apreciate all the input. Everybody raises valid points. The real question is knowing when and where the two lines meet.... where it becomes 'life-got-in-the-way' vs. 'aaaahhhh !@#$%^&*(-- I just got taken for a ride!'. I am not implying that somebody on their death bed needs to feebly log on to RWG and send a PM (funny, btw) but honestly, what are really the odds of that happening? I just think it odd that open lines of comunication, especially with quick responses, suddenly stops. I dont know what the standard wait times should be. I have to lean towards RobbieG's persective--if nothing else for the common courtesy aspect. I think 5 days is more than a reasonable time period. Its just an email or a PM not having watch in hand.

Put the shoe on the other foot... how long would you hold somebody's money before you felt obligated to contact them? I realize this is a hobby for most. Hobby or not, there has to be a factor of respect/honesty/common sense. I can also tell you by reading the posts on the forum, seeing the interactions between members that this (for the vast, vast majority) are a group of like minded individuals. There is a respect between everybody (at least thats what I percieve).

I dont think my opinion is the 'gold standard'. I for one would respond very quickly--buying or selling. I have to live with myself, and I dont think its a good habit (or karma or whatever) to keep somebody strung out. I am going to wait for 5 days. Hopefully I will hear something (26 hrs to go). I really dont want to get paypal involved (yeah, I know 45 days), but I feel like an idiot for not...

What a paradox. I will let you guys know what happens.

-K

[kbh]

I can't believe nobody's mentioned the most obvious. Contact the Mods on that forum and have them contact (put pressure on) the seller. They have all the members personal information and have the ability to contact them directly.

[adrenalin]

I can't believe nobody's mentioned the most obvious. Contact the Mods on that forum and have them contact (put pressure on) the seller. They have all the members personal information and have the ability to contact them directly.

I thought of that. I wanted to try to do the 'big-boy' thing and handle it myself --- find out what the standard is and what the options were before I run to the teacher (Admin) or worse... the principle (paypal)....

Thx!

-K

[freddy333]

I would wait 1 week & then ask 1 of the Mods to see if this member has been logging into RWG during that time. If not, then he is likely dealing with more important issues & I would give him another week. If he has been logging in, then I would email him once more & politely ask if there is a problem with the watch you purchased on (insert date of purchase here)? Give him 48 hours to respond (check with the Mod again to see if he logged in during this time) & then post a public notice/complaint/warning. If you receive nothing in a week, register a complaint with Paypal and/or (if you used a credit card) ask your bank to cancel payment.

[RobbieG]

I honestly can't even believe I'm reading this. John, the guy started a thread asking each of us what we think and what we think he should do about it. I could care less what he or you or anyone does or doesn't do about it as it is none of my business nor is it yours. But alas, this is a discussion forum and aksing and answering questions and offering opinions is what we do around here.

So that is what he asked, here is what he didn't: He didn't ask us to challenge each others opinions. Let him do that if he wants, OK? I offered my opinion. You offered yours. Does everything around here have to be an endless debate over nothing? Christ. You don't see me challenging any one else's view do you? So let's just cut it out shall we? Adrenaline has now seen a cross section of views and will make his desicion how to handle it.

No matter how many times I swear to stay away from threads like this I never learn my lesson. The joke is on me for even thinking that I could ever once offer an opinion that wouldn't be vigorously and pointlessly challenged but at least one person. LOL...

I am not sure why you explain what YOU would do - are you suggesting you are the benchmark by which all others should be judged?

What if the guy is in the ICU? Unconscious? Should he have left a note on his home computer to his wife before he went to work: "If I have a car accident of course tell my boss, but ALSO log onto www.RWG.cc and tell my buyer what happened."

You don't know what this guy's situation is anymore than I do. Maybe he has a lame excuse - maybe he has a perfectly reasonable explanation.

What is being suggested is that before filing a claim the OP show as much patience as possible and also that he involve the admin before taking action that can have serious consequences for all involved. I am the first to defend a person's right to exercise this option but it should be done responsibly. PayPal claims arising out of transactions involving counterfeit watches sold on this forum should be avoided if at all possible.

Seems like common sense to me.

[JohnG]

I can't believe nobody's mentioned the most obvious. Contact the Mods on that forum and have them contact (put pressure on) the seller. They have all the members personal information and have the ability to contact them directly.

This option has not only been mentioned, it has been recommended several times.

As to Adrenalin's point that the extreme example of hospitalization is unlikely - yes it is unlikely. But it is not even close to being outside the realm of possibility. As long as the truth is unknown and I am not prejudicing my own ability to recovery my funds, I give people the benefit of the doubt.

If it were me I would wait a bit longer and then contact the mods.

[JohnG]

I honestly can't even believe I'm reading this. John, the guy started a thread asking each of us what we think and what we think he should do about it.

My comment was directed towards your elaborate explanation of what you would do IF YOU WERE THE SELLER.

That has nothing to do with what Adrenalin, the BUYER, should do in this case.

Edit: That said, I am sorry about the tone in my previous post. It wasn't really necessary.

[Ztech]

Guys let's not get overworked here and jump to conclusions. Let's just hope this get's resolved in a positive way for everyone involved.

[Cats]

Patience and let the modds try to contact him.

And most important here , since communication stopped suddenly, let's hope nothing serious happened.

Carpe Diem

Cats

[TwoTone]

John & Robbie...

Both of you stay out of this Topic from this point forward...

TT

PS: This is NOT a request

PSPS: OP please stay in contact with Stephane before you take any additional steps...

Time is on your side...

.

.

[chronoluvvv]

don't know about you guys but i've been trading on the web since a while now, came close to being burned a few times but lucked out eventually

1 week/10 days of PMs/email

1 week/10 days of public airing of grievances

no resolution yet ? file a dispute and escalate to a claim

may seem a little harsh but i wouldn't expect any less if i were @ fault