Silver Spoons, Outhouses, and Rock & Roll

[greg_r]

Fair enough - and I now have my answer. Sounds like my kind of place. I'll be right over...

You'll fit right in. Trust me

[JohnG]

I am going to start scheduling bouts...

1. Robbie vs. TTK

[RobbieG]

The only way I'll ever fight a Scottsman is if he agrees to make and bake me a Shepards Pie afterward win, lose or draw. I'm not sure Neil could pull that off as he may not be able to find the perfect ingredients where he lives these days...

I am going to start scheduling bouts...

1. Robbie vs. TTK

[JohnG]

CHAMPIONSHIP TAG TEAM BOUT

TTK and Demsey vs. RobbieG and Emperor Penguin

[RobbieG]

Excellent. What is the purse?

CHAMPIONSHIP TAG TEAM BOUT

TTK and Demsey vs. RobbieG and Emperor Penguin

[RobbieG]

Oh, and I forgot one detail too. The illegal U-Turn was in the little turnout in the exact same spot captain humourless was sitting when he gave me the original speeding ticket. That didn't even register until I was telling my buddy on the phone just now and he asked where she got me...

You guys might be interested to hear I just now got another citation. This time for an illegal U-turn. I made another smart assed remark too. I said, "Turning around and going the other way on a whim huh? Good thing you were here to handle it. Before you know it, hundreds might have followed in my footsteps, then where would we be?" And I was smiling when I said it. And she (yup, it was a woman) just looked at me, smiled and said, "You are lucky I think you are kinda funny or I wouldn't be giving you a warning. Better obey the signs cause you might not get me next time, smart ass." So then I say, "Yeah, tell me about it. I'm sure you saw on the screen when you ran me that I got someone else on Wednesday and that pr*ck has absolutely no sense of humor." With that she flashed a very knowing smile...

See, a warning, not a ticket, and I had the exact same attitude as before. Only this time I got a cop who was confident in herself and didn't have anything to prove. Life and its actions and reactions are all about perception. We all have a choice as to how we will handle things. Oh, and yes, I was in the Porsche this time also. I wonder if the outcome would be the same if I had the Mini instead? Or if the cop that pulled me over was Jetmid - or his sister?

[JohnG]

Excellent. What is the purse?

Some of that pie stuff you said you wanted...

[trailboss]

Ahh, so folk have a habit of doing illegal Uies there do they? Gee, lucky no one ever comes flying thru there at 90 'cause that could lead to a rather nasty crash.

Col.

[cc]

No you have your facts wrong there Chunkster. I never left here. I was accidentally banned once for a few hours, but it was an admin error and it was corrected. I deleted a few photo threads from both the other forums that had contained some images that I did a licence deal with a magazine for that had some publishing rights issues temporarily. Those are no longer in effect now...

Chunkster huh?? thought you were one that wasnt quick to assume.

i heard about the "published magazine licensing deal"... i hope it was squared away

anyway, Happy Holidays to RWG!! Where's the Rum spiced Eggnog???

[RobbieG]

Sorry about the handle twister there Chink. Not assuming anything: Chinkiechunkie=Chunkster. Why are you fat or something? I don't get why Chunk would mean anything otherwise. Maybe you might tell be where your handle came from BTW. I'm sure it is an interesting story. Anyway, just abreviating - term of endearment bro.

And regarding the pic I'm kind of surprised that became such a hard pill for some to swallow. Yeah, I had posted a certain pic alot and many were via upload as opposed to linking. I licenced it to a regional luxury/real estate/style type magazine and since they did pay me for it (wasn't much) I did have to comply with and sign off on a policy that the photo would not be in print anywhere for a certain amount of time.

Since then TeeJay has actually used it to make a great piece of wall art as well. It is partly in my signature now too. I'm happy that something I created could have ever garnered that much respect and interest, especially since the pic and crop were more of an accident than a studio masterpiece. So now you have that straight and you know I wasn't calling you names. Feel better? Here is the pic BTW...

Chunkster huh?? thought you were one that wasnt quick to assume.

i heard about the "published magazine licensing deal"... i hope it was squared away

anyway, Happy Holidays to RWG!! Where's the Rum spiced Eggnog???

[RobbieG]

I was just thinking the same thing Boss. Now I know why the speedlimit changed there. See, the fu*kin' forum is awesome. I get tickets, tell the tale, admit my wrongs and then learn why at RWG. Why couldn't one of those cops told me that? I'll never speed there again in the same way. All kidding aside...

A. If you speed there you are asking for it because you might t-bone some piker making an illegal U-Turn. B*stard. What are they thinking?

B. However, don't they know people are coming through there at a hundred and it isn't safe? Maybe they should pick another spot for a U-Turn instead? What are they thinking?

But who is right, God*mmit? Surely somebody has to be able to bend one law without consequence...

Ahh, so folk have a habit of doing illegal Uies there do they? Gee, lucky no one ever comes flying thru there at 90 'cause that could lead to a rather nasty crash.

Col.

[trailboss]

OKE, we have now established several things.

!/ there WAS a reason for the 45 zone AND the heavy enforcment of it. From this we should learn that there is somtimes a good reason for silly little speed zones.

2/ It would in fact be a good idea if the cops took the time to tell folk why they were so down on speeding there. No one like silly laws but if a good reason is apparent most will comply.

3/ Two wrongs (Uturn & speed) can make an even bigger mess. In major aircraft crashes it's hardly ever down to one cause (with the exception of " a bomb blew the tail off") it's usualy a train of smaller events any of which are no big deal on their own all coming together to create a much bigger problem that brings down heavys. Everyone has seen one of the many air crash investigation shows and knows what I meen.

Same with driving. We all know our limits. Or should. The problem lies with the unexpected. If we have any brains at all when driving fast one leavs allounce for external influences like somone coming the other way as fast as you are or debris on the road but what if both occur at once? Come arround the corner and there's somone useing every last inch of their lane plus some of your side and right In front of you he ends up side ways on a patch of gravel? Or a cow walks out in front of you?

Any one of these you could handle. Oke, you were going to clip that apex but since he's using it you have left enough spare that you can tighten your line a little and so can he, no prob. Oh cr*p! There's a cow in front of you. No wuckers, the bloke comming the other way is doing 55 and can stop/pullover in time to let you slip past. Lucky he wasn't moving as fast as you were.

Hell, the cow on it's own may be enough thanks to the punture you picked up a mile or so back. No indercation yet that there's only 10psi in the left front.

Geting it? The faster you go the bigger margin for other peoples error you must leave.

The garage stuffs up your brake job. You only have 40% brakeing on one rear wheel. Np prob, the think has plenty of brakeing power to spare and you'l pick it up eventualy when you realy stop hard. You drive arround for a week or so, the problem still un noticed as you havn't had call to brake hard. On your way home a head light goes out. Slow down a bit to compensate but Porsche lights are good so not that much. The truck comming the other way blinds you just enough that you don't see in your weakend beams the black horse run out in front of you till quite late. Not that late tho, even with the ruduced brakeing, even in the damp conditions you have time to stop and jump on the anchors and let the antilocks and brake assist do their stuff. Oh dear, the three wheels that have full brakes quickly come to the limit of adhesian and the electronic brake force regulater in concert with the antilocks sends the power to the rear wheel with the faulty brake 'cause it aint locking yet and reduces the amount available to the ones that DO work. SMACK! one dead horse, wrecked 996 and prob a dead driver as well. If any one of the above had not occured the outcome would have been much better but all together . . .

Driving much more than 7/10ths on a public road is asking for trouble. Doubleing the speed of surounding traffic is somwhere arround 8.

BTW, speaking of speed on a public road, anyone ever seen "Ghost Rider"? Now THAT guy is insane!

Col.

[RobbieG]

Yeah sure but as you say all of this can happpen at any speed. Kind of like people saying motorcycles are only dangerous if you are going fast without a helmet. Meanwhile most accidents are not at high speeds on bikes or cars. I know three people who were killed in accidents this year. Two on bikes, one in a car and they were all going about 30MPH. When it is your time, it is your time.

In any event I don't dispute a word of what you say. It can be dangerous out there and going faster increases the risk. But life to me sort of imitates my work. Risk/Reward is a pretty perfect curve in all things. No risk is no reward. In this case it starts with never leaving the garage and ends with maybe doing 190 on a bike path. Just like trading. I have asset classes that are fairly likely to draw down 30% in anyone month in most years. Ouch. But when it works it works. hat one returned around 170% this year because of its structure feeding off the volatility in the S&P lately. Meanwhile, my bread and butter class is fixed to never draw down by more than 5%, Black Swans not withstanding (actual is just over three) and it has never made more than 30% in any year and never will, with typical returns running 16-24%. Basically just mirroring the cash index gain or loss for the year plus the leverage minus an entry/exit premium of sorts. The point being, in all things risk is equated to reward in a fairly predictable fashion. And you are right, you can't predict what will happen, but you can calcuate the risk. Even the simplest things are affected. Like most of us would agree that going 0-60 in three and a half seconds is exciting, but even in that there is more risk than not doing it. But if you don't assume those risks you will never feel the pleasure of that acceleration. So why drive at 90MPH instead of 45? Because I felt at the time that the pleaure I gained from it came with an acceptable level of risk. Meanwhile, I can tell you that i wouldn't have ever done that particular stretch at say 120MPH. Too much risk and the reward was no higher in my eyes so I don't do it.

We all make decisions like those every day and they may sound trivial to some but risk/reward calculation is what shapes our lives and the workings of the entire world - including the financial crisis we are in right now. At one time the rewards were great so the banks felt the risk was acceptable when meansured against the trillions that were pouring in. Oops. But just like a car crash if they didn't do what they did there were no rewards for all those years. The same people who are complaining the loudest right now about how these banks fu*ked the whole world made tons of money from owning the stock of those banks in the heyday and enjoyed spending the money immensely. Meanwhile, out of one side of their mouths they are berating them and out of the other side they are saying they wish the stock price would come back up so they don't have to be losing money. Meanwhile what made them money before was exactly the actions they are condemning. The bottom line is most people are both hypocritical and ignorant at the same time without even knowing it. And that is because they don't really understand that ANY reward is tied to some risk in all things. The funny thing is, most investors really do believe that there must be some way in life to make huge returns with no chance of anything ever going wrong. They want FDIC type security and to make decent returns. Don't we all. It is kind of funny really. For that reason I thank my stars everyday that I only deal with institutions now who are very aware of the risk/reward curve and realize that returns are not something you decide on. You decide on how to manage risk to the level of comfort and the returns or lack of will naturally follow commensurate with that like magic.

And driving is no different. The Black Swans, which is the risk related term I use to describe what you mentioned above are always out there, but it is incorrect to focus on them. The banking crash was a Swan. Beyond the realm of likelyhood. Even Greenspan admitted he had no evidence to show him that the model which has functioned in the same way for all that time would unravel. But that is a diamond (or a zirconia at least) which has many facets that I don't wnat to get ito here. Another example: Every light switch in your house is capable of killing you. Dead if a certain set of events occurs simultaneously. And the odds of that happening are about equal to the odds of a black horse, a cow, a light malfunction and an anti-lock problem at the same time happening. In the billions. That is the essence of the Black Swan. Adapting actions to them is 100% mathmatically incorrect, as is adapting any decison to an outlier. Everytime you fly in a plane the Black Swan risk is certain death on failure, but the real risk is that you are safer up there than in a car on a busy street. If it were a trade (and it is) which way do you bet? If someone proposed a wager to you that said you get 10 to 1 on $1000 against any commercial jet crashing in the next week would you take it? How about at 5:1? 2:1? Everyone reading this should know the correct answer to all those questions based on true odds if they were to ever bet any of them. It isn't an emotional decision. There is one correct answer. And they should bet them BTW. All of them. Risk/Reward is a mathmatical concern. How do you think life insurance companies stay in business? They know exactly when you are going to die based on odds calcuations and it works flawlessly in the long run with a large enough sample size. The odds of me wrecking on that four lane road at that speed in broad daylight with visibility extending ahead and behind here in flat-ass Florida is well into the millions. Actually, the true odds when calculated correctly without the Swans are probably just about the same as at the speed limit. Therefore, there was only one real consequece of going 88 in a 45 there. A ticket...

But with all respect, I do take what you say to heart Boss. I have even received some PM's from freinds who truly don't want to see me wrapped around a tree. But don't forget, I'm not a madman and very much of this thread has been Trumped up for effect to get the trolls out and playing. I realize I take risks on the road sometimes, but probably not as much as I made it seem in this thread. I don't have a death wish and I have a lot to live for.

Now let's get Jake in here again and get back to figuring out whether I really am Jetmid or not...

OKE, we have now established several things.

!/ there WAS a reason for the 45 zone AND the heavy enforcment of it. From this we should learn that there is somtimes a good reason for silly little speed zones.

2/ It would in fact be a good idea if the cops took the time to tell folk why they were so down on speeding there. No one like silly laws but if a good reason is apparent most will comply.

3/ Two wrongs (Uturn & speed) can make an even bigger mess. In major aircraft crashes it's hardly ever down to one cause (with the exception of " a bomb blew the tail off") it's usualy a train of smaller events any of which are no big deal on their own all coming together to create a much bigger problem that brings down heavys. Everyone has seen one of the many air crash investigation shows and knows what I meen.

Same with driving. We all know our limits. Or should. The problem lies with the unexpected. If we have any brains at all when driving fast one leavs allounce for external influences like somone coming the other way as fast as you are or debris on the road but what if both occur at once? Come arround the corner and there's somone useing every last inch of their lane plus some of your side and right In front of you he ends up side ways on a patch of gravel? Or a cow walks out in front of you?

Any one of these you could handle. Oke, you were going to clip that apex but since he's using it you have left enough spare that you can tighten your line a little and so can he, no prob. Oh cr*p! There's a cow in front of you. No wuckers, the bloke comming the other way is doing 55 and can stop/pullover in time to let you slip past. Lucky he wasn't moving as fast as you were.

Hell, the cow on it's own may be enough thanks to the punture you picked up a mile or so back. No indercation yet that there's only 10psi in the left front.

Geting it? The faster you go the bigger margin for other peoples error you must leave.

The garage stuffs up your brake job. You only have 40% brakeing on one rear wheel. Np prob, the think has plenty of brakeing power to spare and you'l pick it up eventualy when you realy stop hard. You drive arround for a week or so, the problem still un noticed as you havn't had call to brake hard. On your way home a head light goes out. Slow down a bit to compensate but Porsche lights are good so not that much. The truck comming the other way blinds you just enough that you don't see in your weakend beams the black horse run out in front of you till quite late. Not that late tho, even with the ruduced brakeing, even in the damp conditions you have time to stop and jump on the anchors and let the antilocks and brake assist do their stuff. Oh dear, the three wheels that have full brakes quickly come to the limit of adhesian and the electronic brake force regulater in concert with the antilocks sends the power to the rear wheel with the faulty brake 'cause it aint locking yet and reduces the amount available to the ones that DO work. SMACK! one dead horse, wrecked 996 and prob a dead driver as well. If any one of the above had not occured the outcome would have been much better but all together . . .

Driving much more than 7/10ths on a public road is asking for trouble. Doubleing the speed of surounding traffic is somwhere arround 8.

BTW, speaking of speed on a public road, anyone ever seen "Ghost Rider"? Now THAT guy is insane!

Col.

[CY0811]

Robbie: Many of us have gone over the speed limit on occasion but to state it the way you did was asking for trouble. Before dealing with Law School I was making some good dough and traded my SL500 for a new SL600 Bi-Turbo....this thing was pushing 500hp and was stable as a rock at high speeds....one night after working really late (2 am) I decided I would push it a bit for the first time on Freeway 91 in So Cal...it was completely empty for literally miles ahead of me....I had never done this before and had the itch to see what it was like...in a few SECONDS I was at 130 and was then clocked by a patrol officer with his lights off. I had a perfect record...not one ticket in my 8-9 years as a driver (I was 24). The guy and I talked for about 30 minutes about what he should do....basically he could have locked me up and impounded the car. I'll never forget that conversation and I never drove in excess like that again to this day...he let me off with a warning and I didnt need to pay any ticket to learn that what I had done not only put his life in danger but my own as well. I have nothing but respect for most members of the PD and HP not because I got out of a ticket but because I realize that theyre performing a tough job which is a necessity in order to keep people within this society safe.

I think Robbie is a member who contributes quite a bit and hate to see such a mess arise...some members arent just angered by his actions but are also put off by his tone and attitude....he made a mistake by posting this and I think he knows that so lets just let it rest.

Edited November 30, 2008 by CY0811

[CY0811]

edit

Edited November 30, 2008 by CY0811

[trailboss]

Don't worry mate. I'm not on his case. This is just a friendly discussion B:

I realised some pages back that Robbie is prob smarter than he came across in that first post. This is just a debate for the mental exersice now from my POV. Anyway the cool thing about Robbie is you poke him with a blunt stick and he simply pokes back

I have no problem with you streching the legs on your toy. 130 on a deserted freeway is hardly pushing it as long as your aware how fast stuff happens at that speed. Things just arrive. Only likely to hurt yourself any way. I think that if the cop had been genuinely horrified by your actions you would have been inspecting his cells. He saw a deserted hiway and a car that is designed to cruise all day at that speed and decided to just yell at you for a bit.

I would much rather have you doing 130 on the freeway then the fools in 4X4s who do 45 up our narrow, twisting, blind cornered, creek below on one side and bank on the other, dirt road. It's not the speed, it's the where and the when. Oh, and the who.

Col.

[Johnkaz]

Speeding over here is becoming a thing of the past. Plenty of speed cameras tuned to flashing at about 10% or so over the limit, also cops with radar guns. After getting a ticket it's a fine and 3 points, when you get 12 points your licence can be taken away for 30 days to a year. The government are now talking about six points for 20mph over the limit. Driving over 100mph on a motorway is a ban.

One good idea they had is for new drivers who have to be 17 years to take a test, they are only allowed 6 points in the first 2 years any more and the licence is shredded, re-take your driving test and go back to square one.

[RobbieG]

Yeah, 130 in the dark. Now that is excessive and certainly you are very lucky in all resepcts.

And yes, I do contribute in the serious sections of our forum here and I think most are aware that the "real" me is not so different than anyone else. I think mostly they don't like that I consistently challenge the way that we all think (myself included) in threads like these. My nature is an inquisitive one and that is really the only thing I am arrogant about. I have very strong beliefs about that and my tone and attitude you menton are related to that and not my nature. And I'm sure it doesn't help when I make it clear that I think that anyone who can't see that is stupid. And I do believe that, but it doesn't come from arrogance. Conviction is not arrogance.

I only have to disagree with one thing you said and that is that don't regret posting this story. I still believe I did nothing particularly risky and that anyone not wound too tight has got to be able to recognize a dry sense of humor and someone who is joking with him - cop or not. That is how I live. It has nothing to do with respect for a badge or otherwise. We all deserve respect, but again, I'm not going to make alterations for anyone who is so much of a Neanderthal they need humor and differing personalities to be spelled out for them. There is a price for me choosing not to adapt to that situation - a ticket in this case, two of them actually. Effect of that on any of our lives? Zero. To that end I'm glad I posted it and I'm surprised at how many really are offended by my tone. It is after all just tone, and in the case of this thread it think I have gone way out of my way to make it painfully obvious that I am having fun with it in a very self-depricating way while purposefully making it as obnoxious as possible just to prove the point I am making here. I saddens me that as many didn't have the fun with it that I did and instead took it so obviously seriously. I suppose there will always be those who find it easier to deal with complexities by just finding a reason to hate and judge and easily dismiss, over the alternative which is just to recognize that it may be yourself who is flawed with the inability to accept that others are different from you and that you might even learn something from them. Learn something from RobbieG? See how arrogant this guy is? Yeah right. But I can tell you that every bit of progress I have made in my life (and if you think about it - you too!) was gained by learning from people I most certainly didn't understand and never particularly liked to say the least. From the best college professors to my worst boss to my favorite authors. I couldn't stand any of them, and yet they all made me smarter...

Robbie: Many of us have gone over the speed limit on occasion but to state it the way you did was asking for trouble. Before dealing with Law School I was making some good dough and traded my SL500 for a new SL600 Bi-Turbo....this thing was pushing 500hp and was stable as a rock at high speeds....one night after working really late (2 am) I decided I would push it a bit for the first time on Freeway 91 in So Cal...it was completely empty for literally miles ahead of me....I had never done this before and had the itch to see what it was like...in a few SECONDS I was at 130 and was then clocked by a patrol officer with his lights off. I had a perfect record...not one ticket in my 8-9 years as a driver (I was 24). The guy and I talked for about 30 minutes about what he should do....basically he could have locked me up and impounded the car. I'll never forget that conversation and I never drove in excess like that again to this day...he let me off with a warning and I didnt need to pay any ticket to learn that what I had done not only put his life in danger but my own as well. I have nothing but respect for most members of the PD and HP not because I got out of a ticket but because I realize that theyre performing a tough job which is a necessity in order to keep people within this society safe.

I think Robbie is a member who contributes quite a bit and hate to see such a mess arise...some members arent just angered by his actions but are also put off by his tone and attitude....he made a mistake by posting this and I think he knows that so lets just let it rest.

[RobbieG]

Exactly. And I have had the most fun with you here Boss, mostly because you were the guy who hasn't been taking me seriously at all and we have had both fun and knowledge from debating what most would say is the obvious. You got me thinking about Swans and odds as related to driving which is something I hadn't done in quite some time. For that I thank you brother.

Who knows, maybe I can figure out a way to use it to help us trade better. On the flip side, all this concern for safety will certainly slow me down or at the very least make me more aware that the Black Swan is out there at all times and as such, we may not act solely on the risk of ruin, but we have to build its consequence into the model, whether it be a trade or a trip to the grocery store.

Cheers...

Don't worry mate. I'm not on his case. This is just a friendly discussion B:

I realised some pages back that Robbie is prob smarter than he came across in that first post. This is just a debate for the mental exersice now from my POV. Anyway the cool thing about Robbie is you poke him with a blunt stick and he simply pokes back

I have no problem with you streching the legs on your toy. 130 on a deserted freeway is hardly pushing it as long as your aware how fast stuff happens at that speed. Things just arrive. Only likely to hurt yourself any way. I think that if the cop had been genuinely horrified by your actions you would have been inspecting his cells. He saw a deserted hiway and a car that is designed to cruise all day at that speed and decided to just yell at you for a bit.

I would much rather have you doing 130 on the freeway then the fools in 4X4s who do 45 up our narrow, twisting, blind cornered, creek below on one side and bank on the other, dirt road. It's not the speed, it's the where and the when. Oh, and the who.

Col.

[trailboss]

Yes but half the problem is you don't learn how to drive a car. You learn how to pass a driving test. Driver education is pathatic in most countrys. Some steps have been taken to tighten things here in Queensland. Learners now have to do a cpl of hundred hours behind the wheel including twenty odd with a instructor befor doing their test. What's needed however is more advanced training. The first time most drivers get into a skid it's a real situation. Imagine geting a piolets licence without ever having done a stall recovery? Emergency brakeing. collision advoidence, correct cornering, skid control on the pan, front drive VS rear, these things just arn't done. It's madness! That's all called "Advanced" driver training and costs big money. It should be BASIC driver training!

Col.

[RobbieG]

Amen to that. Esp skid control. I'm always amazing at how many accidents I see that are the result of not being able to anticipate and correct a car that has lost traction. They seem to do it all wrong - oversteer, understeer, hard braking, rapid deceleration instead of the opposite. At the very least a driver should have to be able to gain control of a skidding car at modest speed in rain or snow. It still won't prevent many accidents but certainly some and will make the unavoidable ones less serious...

Yes but half the problem is you don't learn how to drive a car. You learn how to pass a driving test. Driver education is pathatic in most countrys. Some steps have been taken to tighten things here in Queensland. Learners now have to do a cpl of hundred hours behind the wheel including twenty odd with a instructor befor doing their test. What's needed however is more advanced training. The first time most drivers get into a skid it's a real situation. Imagine geting a piolets licence without ever having done a stall recovery? Emergency brakeing. collision advoidence, correct cornering, skid control on the pan, front drive VS rear, these things just arn't done. It's madness! That's all called "Advanced" driver training and costs big money. It should be BASIC driver training!

Col.

[trailboss]

Where I grew up The Ballad of Stroker Ace was a hymn and dirt track speedway was the religion. Skid control was never a problem for me

It's a downright joy for a country boy

When he hears them engines moan

But you gotta hang tough and it gets real rough

When you're out there on your own

Cause they'll push you around, they'll knock you down

They'll shove ya up against the wall

And you always know when an engine blows

That a man can't win 'em all

You could push that car

just a little too far any Sunday afternoon

And if you break your neck

in some damn fool's wreck they'd forget about you soon

But old Stroker Ace was born to race

and it's worth all the try'n

Just to drink champagne in the Victory Lane

and to hear that concrete whine

Stroker Ace. verse 3

Col.

[RobbieG]

Great stuff Boss. BTW, I didn't know you were from Queensland. Never been, but I will go soon. Interesting story for you:

I lived in Hawaii from 86' until 91' and during my time there I spent about a year working for an Austrailian custom sailboat builer from Cairnes and orignially Brisbane. He came to Hawaii by way of sailing 30,000 miles around the world's very nook and cranny on one of his own builds - a 48' concrete hulled ketch. I met him in the Pub at the Chart House at Ala Wai marina and he told me the story of how he came to be in the islands by being caught at the edge of a hurricane and had been dismasted and limping in under jury rig. His terminology was , "My mizzen was missin'" Always loved him and most all Aussies from that day forward. He was a grumpy f*ck but he taught me so much. I was just a kid. We actually did a Transpac race togther in another yacht as well. I had grown up sailing on the coast of Maine but he taught me most of what I know about offshore passagemaking and hardcore ocean racing which I did much of in the islands. Good times. Talk about freedom. I had NOTHING and I was never happier. I lived out of a dufflebag and stayed in the forward cabin of his boat at slip in the marina. He had the master aft stateroom of course and what fun we had. He had a marina yacht caretaking and maintainance company and I worked for him as well. It was kind of part time for both of us really but I made maybe a couple hundred dollars a week and it might have well been a million. All I ever needed was rum, fresh caught Ahi and some sticky rice and that sure doesn't cost much. We also used to be friends with a lot of girls who worked at the strip clubs so we always had a gaggle of spandex laden hussies parading across the gangplank at all hours making a ruckus. Those were the days. He has been dead for years. He was in his early 60's at the time and he died of lung cancer many years ago now. Johnny Main was his name...

Where I grew up The Ballad of Stroker Ace was a hymn and dirt track speedway was the religion. Skid control was never a problem for me

It's a downright joy for a country boy

When he hears them engines moan

But you gotta hang tough and it gets real rough

When you're out there on your own

Cause they'll push you around, they'll knock you down

They'll shove ya up against the wall

And you always know when an engine blows

That a man can't win 'em all

You could push that car

just a little too far any Sunday afternoon

And if you break your neck

in some damn fool's wreck they'd forget about you soon

But old Stroker Ace was born to race

and it's worth all the try'n

Just to drink champagne in the Victory Lane

and to hear that concrete whine

Stroker Ace. verse 3

Col.

[greg_r]

Amen to that. Esp skid control. I'm always amazing at how many accidents I see that are the result of not being able to anticipate and correct a car that has lost traction. They seem to do it all wrong - oversteer, understeer, hard braking, rapid deceleration instead of the opposite. At the very least a driver should have to be able to gain control of a skidding car at modest speed in rain or snow. It still won't prevent many accidents but certainly some and will make the unavoidable ones less serious...

Amen!

I can't believe that skid control is not part of the driving test. When I first passed my test at age 17, a family friend gave me the opportunity to spend a day at a local race track. It was pouring with rain on the day and I learned to control a skid and anticipate a car's behaviour on the limit. I've been using what I learned that day for over 30 years and still credit Lou (the family friend) for the reason why I've never had an accident (other than the two times someone has rear-ended me when I was stationary at a junction, waiting to turn ).

It astonishes me how badly prepared for actual driving most people are having passed their test. It ain't their fault, it's the fault of the system that taught them. Sadly, some people never learn to do it properly, which is, I am sure, why the quality of driving here in the UK continues to deteriorate. I drive to and from work along several miles of narrow country lanes and it is alarming how badly some people control their vehicles - many have no grasp of how wide their car is in relation to the road, and others simply do not know how to drive around a corner without straying into the path of oncoming vehicles. Then there's the assholes who think it's acceptable to drive three inches from your back bumper..... grrrrr....

Sorry to rant, but it's something I get very worked up about. It's all very well pushing manufacturers to make safer cars, but surely we should also be trying to make safer drivers?

[JohnG]

This is the BIN, enough of the nice talk - let's see some more ACTION.