does photoshop make a photogenious better?

[fotoman]

i've been talking to lanikai about using photoshop

and he's new to the software and it can be daunting, anyway i did a really simple thing that i do to most of my photos. White balancing your camera is a MUST if you want accurate colors.

However, if you dn't white balance properly or your light changes suddenly, you may end up with a tinge of offness to the colors. - now of course this means your monitor has to be properly calibrated as well -

anyway there is a simple point here. just thought i would share. so i'm taking lani's awesome photo just did auto color on it, which now that i have seen it in person definitely gives the tone of the blacksteel coloring

so here is the example before and after

[fotoman]

subtle, but you get a true-er version of that strap and blacksteel.

and DAMMIT lani - staring at that strap now that i got the watch for my friend makes me want one

[Toadtorrent]

Nice!!! ...and who would have thought you could make a Lani combo photo better???

[lanikai]

Yes, this pic was done with the wrong ISO .. I'm trying to get my white balance corrected.. I have mixed feelings regarding photoshop.. on one hand it does enhance and create beautiful images from the existing image.. but conversely the colour is enhanced to the point of being fictitious.. maybe if the saturation is lessened after the auto adjust it would be more "real"

that's the only reservation I have .. as I would really like to convey the true colour.. if this was for an artful pictorial then it is hands down.. "top shelf" !!

[lanikai]

this would be a more realistic image of the BS .... if I use "enhancement" in the images in my pictorials it would make the piece and strap look irresistable,.. but the colour would not be true.. as you can see the hands are more orange/red .. this is the true colour of the rep.,. it definately needs to be modded (painted) more of a Ferrari red..

the Blue tint in the case is from the blue sky above .. "reality" in my images is very improtant to me.. as this is how you would view the "real" timepiece in person.. as opposed to a studio pic with artificial lights..

Sorry I wasn't prepared for my pic to be used in this thread.. so I thought I would add my thoughts of how I approach my pictorials..

but there is no debating that photo shop adds great artificial enhancement..

[fotoman]

no tint to the case, was from either a flash, or something blue in your clothes reflecting on

but, i know from handling the watch, the hue on that blacksteel very tuff to cover, i think the pic i changed is pretty close.

your bottom pic is also true-er, its unsaturated, which of course you can adjust however you like But, there is a natural reflection of that gun metal color, so, its not as "matte" in the last photo.

just thought i would point out what difference just a small auto color thing does

[Toadtorrent]

It's a tricky thing to capture the proper colour given variances in monitors too. I know my monitors vary greatly between different ones in my house and at work. Some of this has to do with the monitors themselves and some has to do with the ambiant light quality in the workspace.

[takashi]

Some LCD screen have only 6 bit panel making the much richer 8 bit colour interpolated. Possibly that the colour temperature is also set at the wrong setting too. Mine is calibrated to D6500 standard (6500k), great for watching movie and displaying photos.

Anyway, Photoshop is a powerful tool. There are much simpler alternatives to achieve similar results. I can recommend GIMP for easy editing and also ACDSee for photo cataloging and simple editing.

[lanikai]

no tint to the case, was from either a flash, or something blue in your clothes reflecting on

but, i know from handling the watch, the hue on that blacksteel very tuff to cover, i think the pic i changed is pretty close.

your bottom pic is also true-er, its unsaturated, which of course you can adjust however you like But, there is a natural reflection of that gun metal color, so, its not as "matte" in the last photo.

just thought i would point out what difference just a small auto color thing does

Nope.. disagree with your assesment of the tint.. since I was there in person.. that day the sky was as blue as ever and the sun was shinning bright, and this image was taken in shade with teh sky's reflection at an angle.. the blue tint is from that.. and NO.. the BS is not totally matte when it is indirect reflective light.. if you have one available for your own satisfaction, and not one that you handled for a few minutes.

disagree also with the pic that is photoshop enhanced, it is not true to the actual item in question ... the red is too red, the the steel is too black for the type of lighting

and of course the pic that I had knowledge of (being used of my own free will) is unsaturated as the image does add more colour than normal (digital)

next time I suggest you use your own image in your tutorial.. to show off your photo shop expertise., unless you deem it necessary to elevate your own self esteem by not asking if it's cool with the second party .. maybe I'm used to doing things differently..

thanks

lani

I figure if someone is going to post a pic that I did that is not very well done and use it as a bad example I should have some say in the matter..

[fakemaster]

People love PS. Almot none of the watch picture I see are what they look like in real life.

[fotoman]

Nope.. disagree with your assesment of the tint.. since I was there in person.. that day the sky was as blue as ever and the sun was shinning bright, and this image was taken in shade with teh sky's reflection at an angle.. the blue tint is from that.. and NO.. the BS is not totally matte when it is indirect reflective light.. if you have one available for your own satisfaction, and not one that you handled for a few minutes.

disagree also with the pic that is photoshop enhanced, it is not true to the actual item in question ... the red is too red, the the steel is too black for the type of lighting

and of course the pic that I had knowledge of (being used of my own free will) is unsaturated as the image does add more colour than normal (digital)

next time I suggest you use your own image in your tutorial.. to show off your photo shop expertise., unless you deem it necessary to elevate your own self esteem by not asking if it's cool with the second party .. maybe I'm used to doing things differently..

thanks

lani

I figure if someone is going to post a pic that I did that is not very well done and use it as a bad example I should have some say in the matter..

dude- i apologize, i had no idea you would be so sensitive. If you read the title of the thread, it says photo genius. I dont think i put you down at all.

i'll pull the photo down. I'm not saying your picture is bad at all. I was just showing what photoshop auto color correct can do. - its a very minor change in white balance. its almost impossible to control with cameras, without some adjustment. I wouldn't consider the photo "better or worse" but, i would consider the color corrected version more true to the watch i held in my hand. - I still think that the blue hue is from a white balance, as opposed to reflections from the sky. If you did a custom white balance there, i would take it back, but i have shot alot of watches outside and never gotten that blue hue, in fact i don't think its in your wrist shot.

I don't think anyone would call any of your photos anything less than great, i don't think i did, i hope your not too upsetas

as it relates to the rest of the thread, never mind then.

[Dani]

@Lani bro

In my computers i have all the ps softwear and i NEVER use it, ps is fake and it makes photos fake looking.

I like much more your natural photos so keep that up bro.

Cheers,

Dani

[lanikai]

dude- i apologize, i had no idea you would be so sensitive. If you read the title of the thread, it says photo genius. I dont think i put you down at all.

i'll pull the photo down. I'm not saying your picture is bad at all. I was just showing what photoshop auto color correct can do. - its a very minor change in white balance. its almost impossible to control with cameras, without some adjustment. I wouldn't consider the photo "better or worse" but, i would consider the color corrected version more true to the watch i held in my hand. - I still think that the blue hue is from a white balance, as opposed to reflections from the sky. If you did a custom white balance there, i would take it back, but i have shot alot of watches outside and never gotten that blue hue, in fact i don't think its in your wrist shot.

I don't think anyone would call any of your photos anything less than great, i don't think i did, i hope your not too upsetas

as it relates to the rest of the thread, never mind then.

I am giving the benefit of the doubt.. be it the pain meds, or other issues .. but your scripted senario was not appreciated .. you could of very well used one of your undoctored pics..

Pho, it is not the pic itself but the "act" of this thread (as my pic was up for the world to see and it was obvious that the balance was off) if anything the reflection could be adjusted .

.. and please don't chaulk it up to being "sensitive" .. the sugar coating of semantics makes it more insulting, you need not resort to tactics that in my World would be construed as cowardly. If you had presented this with my knowledge we would not be having this diatribe. Simple communication to what was going to be posted and an acknowledgement from me would have made the difference.

Human relationships are based on Trust.. IMO .. it would be like me posting your PM that you had asked to keep confidential.. get ma drift ??

First,.. by your own admission "crap" on my UN pictorial .. I turn the other cheek,.. try to "Hoomalemale".. (make right) the path between you and I .. and given the meds you are on most of the time.. I can understand the confusion at times..

But I for one expect more from a Senior member of this board .. and one who does not IMO have to "Prove" anything in regards to his images and reviews.

I for one do not feel like I am taking away from your knowledge and skills .. why you feel threatened is beyond me..

I would like to get past this .. in time maybe the trust will be restored.. but words will not cut it.. as they say.. "actions speaks the loudest" .. so we'll see how much you and "I" walk our TALK..

Maluhia and Aloha .. (Peace~Breath of life)

R

@Dani.. ya put into words what is in my thoughts about all the software.. what good is it to be able to take a image then press a key to redo the whole image.. and yes .. at times although photoshop makes brilliant pics .. too much of it and the image looks "cartoonish" .. to me at times..

thank you ~

R

[fotoman]

I am giving the benefit of the doubt.. be it the pain meds, or other issues .. but your scripted senario was not appreciated .. you could of very well used one of your undoctored pics..

Pho, it is not the pic itself but the "act" of this thread (as my pic was up for the world to see and it was obvious that the balance was off) if anything the reflection could be adjusted .

.. and please don't chaulk it up to being "sensitive" .. the sugar coating of semantics makes it more insulting, you need not resort to tactics that in my World would be construed as cowardly. If you had presented this with my knowledge we would not be having this diatribe. Simple communication to what was going to be posted and an acknowledgement from me would have made the difference.

Human relationships are based on Trust.. IMO .. it would be like me posting your PM that you had asked to keep confidential.. get ma drift ??

First,.. by your own admission "crap" on my UN pictorial .. I turn the other cheek,.. try to "Hoomalemale".. (make right) the path between you and I .. and given the meds you are on most of the time.. I can understand the confusion at times..

But I for one expect more from a Senior member of this board .. and one who does not IMO have to "Prove" anything in regards to his images and reviews.

I for one do not feel like I am taking away from your knowledge and skills .. why you feel threatened is beyond me..

I would like to get past this .. in time maybe the trust will be restored.. but words will not cut it.. as they say.. "actions speaks the loudest" .. so we'll see how much you and "I" walk our TALK..

Maluhia and Aloha .. (Peace~Breath of life)

R

@Dani.. ya put into words what is in my thoughts about all the software.. what good is it to be able to take a image then press a key to redo the whole image.. and yes .. at times although photoshop makes brilliant pics .. too much of it and the image looks "cartoonish" .. to me at times..

thank you ~

R

Wow - well, since we had this discussion out in public without PM then i'm just going to say my peace. The medium of forums and emails is clearly not good for understanding nuance and reaction. I'm not interested in proving ANYTHING to you frankly. You and i are on different planets and probably not ment to be friends Luckily its a large forum. The fact that you could compare a confidential email - where i offered to help you at my own expense and time to a comment about white balance in a photo that was published on the forum is Shocking.

The fact that you are insulted by my comments on your UN thread to me is Shocking. i think you are extremely over sensitive, i don't care if your world i'm being cowardly. Frankly, i'm the one being straight forward and honest, and in all our discussions you never mentioned you were upset about my comments in your UN thread, clearly you were. cowardly is to not mention it.

If your not comfortable with people commenting on your photos, i wouldn't post them.

You don't have to think i need a benefit of any doubt about what "drugs" i'm on. I made a simple comment about the white balance in your photo - frankly THE biggest issue of any photos taken on the forum - even off the forum - JOsh's white balance has been off lately too especially on the Frank Mueller. Its not an insult, its a statement of fact. I think you take great photos - i think i have stated that publicly and privately - for whatever reason you think i'm blowing smoke up your ass in 1 direction and knocking you down in the other would be to completely misinterpret my comments.

i'm sorry that you took general discussion of photo tactics as insulting - and i'm sorry that you were personally insulted that i took a photo you posted and ran it through 1 photoshop filter to post the difference. Again, i thought it was a great photo, i was showing how photoshop - NOT ME, photoshop can color correct.

i'm not threatened by you at all. i always encourage folks from the first blurry photos to advanced technics to continue to work to improve. I work to improve my photos all the time and there is ALWAYS something to improve with mine.

Frankly, i welcome comments so i can learn. sometimes i learn, sometimes i have made a conscious decision and have a different opinion than the poster. But, i never get threatened or feel personally attacked because of comments on the photos.

again, i never ment to insult you, just tried to offer comments on using some software that i know you weren't using. all comments were positive. and most were not even directed at your photos, just generic camera talk in the UN thread

again, i apologize for using your photo in this thread, i mistook our conversations to think i understood you and we had established a relationship - and didn't think you would think anything of it. - clearly my mistake and bad assumption.

i don't appreciate your comments in the last post- i don't appreciate the fact that if you had a problem with my comments in either thread you couldn't send a simple PM and ask me not to make comments or that you would appreciate if i didn't. it is clear that were just not compatible. Like i said, forum is a big place.

i wish you the best of luck in your future photo endeavors.

[Pugwash]

In my computers i have all the ps softwear and i NEVER use it, ps is fake and it makes photos fake looking.

Photoshop can be used to make pictures closer to what the photographer saw, not what the camera captured.

To completely dismiss the value of software by calling it fake is a little naive.

[blue_sphere]

What Pug said... photoshop is a terrific program and can really make your pictures shine.

[mikellem]

+1 Pugs

[RobbieG]

There are no absolutes in life. And to that end let me show you all something. I basically only use PS to clone stamp out dust spots and as a vehicle for resizing and saving photos. Many of my pics which you all know by now were taken with a pocket snap shot camera with no adjustments of any kind. NO WHITE BALANCE ADJUSTMENTS either. No light box. Natural light. Tripod and no flash set to the cameras automatic macro program mode with no adjustments of any kind. Once in PS each of these has has NO processing of any kind. They key is the light, the light and the light. You have to learn to look for when the light looks right and is nice an diffused so the watch looks appealing to your eye. When it does, chances are any camera will capture it. Sure I have an SLR that I use for my more serious photography, but to be honest, I hardly use it with watches. I have gotten so I prefer the pocket camera actually. I'll let you in on a little secret - the little on board lenses in pocket cameras is actaully an asset to macro work as it automatically solves depth of field issues. Too much technical stuff to go into here to explain that but anyway, suffice it to say that you don't even need an SLR to get good watch shots...

I'll bet a whole lot of people here might think some expensive equipment and post processing was used to make these images. Nope. Cheap stuff on auto settings and no correction at all. If the light is right your pics will make themselves. If not, you either have to toss it (which I recommend) or process the sh*t out of it (which I don't recommend cause then they just look like marginal photos that have been processed.

A few examples of my no talent, no equipment photos given to me by Mother Nature. The scary thing is that I wonder what they might look like if I did process them in PS. Would they get better? Or worse? I'm in no hurry to find out as I like the natural vibe to them. They look real to me and that is what I'm going for:

[jonthebhoy]

Guys...is this really worth falling out over?

[fotoman]

Guys...is this really worth falling out over?

its actually, ok, we just realized were not talking the same language, me personally, i'm not losing any sleep over it, i'm sure he isn't either, i think we have an agreement to disagree. its part of the whole typing as a medium instead of speaking face to face.

- Robbie - i usually only use photoshop to cut out dust and square off he photo with cloning. frankly, its not till i started using CS3 and 4 that the new auto stuff really made a difference.

on the macro shots, i used to get much better photos with my canon point and shoot. the DSLR doesn't lend itself well, - that is until i read pug's tutorial on reversing rings, but i don't have one handy

the one big thing that i love about the DSLR, is when i zoom to 1:1 there is little to no noise. on my point and shoot there was tons of noise, even with the lightbox - i compensated by using free transform to shrink the photo instead of a straight photo change function, that got around the noise.

What i have noticed though in my latest batch of photos - i'm using 2 different light sources, and they have different light spectrum and therefor my white balance is off no matter what, but amazingly photoshop somehow auto corrects it.

then the question is, are you going for art, or an accurate digital representation of what you see with your eye (assuming your monitor is properly calibrated, which mine isn't)

anyway, its tuff, i think the photos look better when the colors aren't perfect its a choice and i make it differently every time

[RobbieG]

Yeah Photoshop is a great tool. I use it in my other work a lot - when I shoot with SLR. Heavy duty flower stuff like this always needs color correction. My point was to say that when you focus on controlling your LIGHT everything changes. Your perpective changes and so does the image. Yeah, I get that color correction is cool Pho. I know all about it and I have work heavily with the program for years now. I'm just saying that you don't always need to do that to get world class images. Nor do you need great equipment. BTW, the reason the point and shoots work great for certain subjects is the same reason why reversing rings work actually work better than a macro lens...

Here is some very color corrected and processed nature done with an SLR which is clearly different - but then its kind of the same isn't it.